View Full Version : This has got to be a first!!!

08-16-2012, 11:01 AM
Well, for all of you following my trials & tribulations with the F/M & other nonsense while trying to build a 30,000' sq. ft. haunt in under 100 days...I've got a new one for you! We were just handed a cease & desist order from the mall owners because of a labor dispute with the Union! Are you freaking kidding me...the Union has over 300+ men working on a $10m+ mall expansion here & their worried about 8-10 employees of mine fitting out a haunt? WTF are things coming to? Seriously...if the Union is that worked up over 8-10 men for a 5-6 week period, they have much bigger issues than my haunt...and they know it!:mad:

While we just got the keys a couple weeks ago, we have been working non-stop for nearly a year pre-fabing everything in my shop. So sadly, after nearly $60,000. in soft cost alone, we are regretfully pulling the plug for this season. Our attorney is attempting a "sit-down" with the mall owners & the Union officials to see if things can be "worked" out...if so, we will continue our build out, & open for weekends only next July & August (since we are in a shore tourist town) we feel we can build as strong base over the summer. We'll repair/revamp in September & re-open for October. If things cannot be "worked" out than we are back to square one looking at another location! Freakin' heartbroken:( & mad as hell:mad: Much time and money flushed! Union taking on a haunt!!! ONLY in freakin' New Jersey!

Well, best of luck to all of you hustling & busting your butts to repair, remodel & open for the season...I'm jealous;) Wish you all the best and hope to post some positives on here shortly along with pics & vids! Got to go now, I'm ordering a 60' tall inflatable cat that I'm setting up next to their 20' freakin' rat!


08-16-2012, 11:25 AM
Wow man so sorry to hear that. Unbelievable! You know, it isn't until I started researching and planning opening a haunt, that I REALLY appreciated just how easy I've had it in the massage business. A union taking on a haunt, that's just unreal..

08-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Now, I don't know JACK about unions and stuff, but seriously, WTF right do they have to complain about you?? What's their argument? Are they saying THEY should be getting paid to do your work? W/e the reason, it's freakin retarded! STUPID!

THEY DON'T WORK FOR YOU!!!!!!!! If you have a spot, it's YOUR business, I feel that you should have 100% say in what your employees ... nvm. Forget it, I'm getting riled up over something I don't understand but ... anywho.

I'm sorry for your troubles man, this country, these people we live with here, it's getting ridiculous. And I mean seriously! You can't do JACK CRAP around here, this isn't what I'd exactly call a "Free Country" when you have people ALWAYS telling you what you can or can't do. A friend of mine, lives in the STICKS! OUT of city limits, and he's got people trying to tell him to get rid of his project cars because he's 1. Not a business, 2. They're not running. 3. they're outside where people can see. His neighbors? Drive 2 minutes to even see his yard. Better than that? HE'S AT THE END OF THE ROAD!!!! They only see it when they drive to his house... unbelievable. Sorry, just that all this mess is really getting to me.

Hope things turn around for you guys and you're able to open and have a great year.


Jim Warfield
08-16-2012, 11:52 AM
That only benefit a small group financially strikes most of us as phoney and unneeded, usually. We just get suspicious...
I know an electrician who had his non-union crew pre-fab conduit and boxes that were then installed on a bridge over the Miss. .. I think he got in trouble for that? Didn't make sense to me, but it obviously made CENTS to someone. (Dollars too!)
There will always be "Right" and "Wrong" but in these times there is a much larger area inbetween of grey and questionable dealings.
There may even be a connection, family, politically between the players in this which influence these things moreso than not.

08-16-2012, 12:36 PM
Is it in your lease that you have to use the Labor Union for your TI's?? I cant believe that was not discussed with you prior to the lease. If it's not in your lease have your attorney tell them to piss off!

And also it's normal only related to "permanent" construction like the fire alarm, partition walls, ceilings etc. normally any temporary or "decorative" structures are completely exempt (including workstations or cubicles which our maze's are basically the same thing) . Can you imagine Nordstrom contracting through he mall's union every time they move the shoe stands or clothing hangers around when they change the store layout a little bit??

I am sure your attorney has looked into all this, but this crap pisses me off!

08-16-2012, 02:00 PM
Well to answer one question...yes, myself & our attorney carefully examined the lease agreement & NOWHERE did it say there was a PLA (Project Labor Agreement) all it referred to was to "work in harmony with all trades" which my attorney said did NOT imply we MUST utilize Union workers. My non-union company has always worked in harmony with all trades, it is the Union who chooses to not work in harmony with other non-union trades! I asked the mall owners..."have you ever seen a non-union picket line"?

The Union cannot shut me down, however there is a stipulation in the lease which says that the mall has the right to stop us should there be a labor dispute. The sad thing is not only going union (which I will NOT do) would cost me another $200,000. + to do the fit out, but it would take 4X the union workers & 3x as long to complete as my crew of honest, hard working Americans can do & is more than willing to do & is grateful for the opportunity to do it! But we now have greedy bastards wanting to deny them this opportunity? Total BULLSHIT! Free Country...doubt it! America, the land my father took a bullet for, is dangerously slipping away from its original roots and in a way I'm glad he is no longer around to have to see what has become of the land he loved so much!:( So freakin' pathetic I can't really put into words what I'm really thinking!

I better get off here for a few before I go off in a bad direction! ;)


08-16-2012, 02:21 PM
...... if they were all part owners;) and you had no hierd help?? it is a small crew:)

08-16-2012, 02:59 PM
Thats not a bad idea...may have to look into that, thanks.


08-16-2012, 03:36 PM
How can they call that a labor dispute anymore than someone being mad becaus they didn't get hired for any job at the mall???

I just don't think they want the headache which is BS and are just trying to scare you into making their lives easier. Have your attorney send them a breach of contract and harrasment letter with the possibility of a law suite for losses due to not runnIng this year and see how They respond...or add All your workers as partners... Don't give into this garbage. I bet they figured you would just roll over so they don't have to listen to the union complain.

08-16-2012, 04:10 PM
I talked to the FM for my haunt on my walls and if there were any concerns on the material or ''style'' of walls that we would be using. The FM said they looked good and I should have no problems. Since I had to file my permits with a different county it takes a LONG time to get back to me [since the county I am in does not have there own FM the capital here handles it]. The fire safety department looked at my plans and told me the walls had to be made out of drywall and metal studs ran every 18 inches. To top it off I had to put in a new plan with the fire safety department and I wont get a answer till next week [I put it in last friday]. These people are CRAZY and they wonder why are country is so much in debt. Any person that tries to make something of there self in small biz [seems even more so with haunts] they tackle you to the floor and hold you down till you cant do NOTHING. I feel your pain and I hope everything turns around for everyone that is having problems and we are given our chance.

08-16-2012, 05:24 PM

Words can not express how much I would love to lend my boot covered foot to you to use kicking the appropriate places.

This part I say gracefully (no offense was taken as I hear it/similar at least twice a week)....but retardedness of these people was mentioned above...but my retarded sister has more common sense than these union parasites.

Wicked Farmer

08-16-2012, 06:05 PM
Son-of-Sam, I'm with you on that subject. I've been a general contractor here for more than 22 years & NOTHING has gotten better...only worst! From the zoning boards, planning committees, inspectors, now unions & the supposedly brains of this nation have the balls to wonder why the GD economy is stuck in neutral? Really you f*****g idiots can't figure it out? Get off your lazy asses, get out in the real world and see how things run! I'm convinced this country should be run entirely by small business people...they seem like they are the ONLY ones truly connected to the real world!

Wickedfarmer, no offense taken (LOL) I'll echo what you said. One has to wonder where things are headed anymore. In my years of general contracting I have had only two issues with the unions...& I owned the property so I dealt with them on my terms;) However, now I'm a tenant rather than an owner & my hands are tied! I would love to tell these mall owners to stick their lease up their lilly white asses but we have poured a ton of money into this thing right now. However, if the union doesn't back off & allow us to work than I am certainly starting litigation against the mall owners as NO Project Labor Agreement was disclosed to us in our lease agreement! :mad:

Freakin' insane the bullshit we must endure just to scare the shit out of someone! LMAO (crying on the inside):(


Marr Branch
08-16-2012, 06:58 PM
Its called big goverment.

Marr Branch
08-16-2012, 07:02 PM
Private sector is making money, they better cut me in, or I'll shut them down. BIG GOVERMENT!

08-16-2012, 07:40 PM
I hope you find a way around their crap and stick it to em'...

Don't give into the presure... Keep up the fight.

08-16-2012, 07:54 PM
Unions are a virus infecting our already sick nation. I'd rather have real zombies to deal with.

Sorry bro. I recommend moving out of the unions' power zone whenever possible.

Creepy Works
08-16-2012, 08:01 PM
That sucks really bad. Hopefully it can be worked out peacefully. I would want to know more about whats going on between the union and the mall owners. Sounds like the mall owners rented you the space to make a few bucks knowing that the union might get their panties in a wad. I would definitely sic the lawyer on them for answers considering the $$ and time you have sunk into it. As one person stated have all your workers be owners, volunteers, or family. Make it through this year and move everything out come November.

08-16-2012, 09:21 PM
I used to be a union fan years ago until I worked for American Airlines. I found myself at DFW helping out on a temporary duty assignment but I was doing ALL the work while my ramp partner (lazy good for nothing POS!) would lay there and take a freakin knap!!! When I told him to get up he accused me of being racist and then got the union involved saying I was trying to boss him around! WTF!?!!?!?!?!

This is a new one though! I can't believe this!

Keep your chin up and find a way through it.


08-16-2012, 09:37 PM
Welcome to the world of pro-haunting. :(

creep house
08-18-2012, 12:43 AM
Unions Suck !!!

08-18-2012, 09:31 AM
I've started a little union rhetoric of my own...they didn't like too much! ;) Now they want to have a sit down to discuss things! So if you don't see anymore of my post after Monday...look for me & my new concrete shoes in the Atlantic! LOL I ain't skeered!:)


Greg Chrise
08-18-2012, 10:39 AM
I didn't post to do that but, That is how I would have done it. If I had money there would have been an appearence of Haunt union #13 T-shirts. Perhaps picketing the mall by the New Jersey Zombie walk community, TV cameras covering how the union doesn't want small business to thrive nor the mall and so it really shouldn't be a place anyone shops. All free national advertising and comotion. Since you have spent money, everyone should lose money game theory.

And then no matter what happens is going to cost money on top of that if you have to get out of a lease and demand to be reimbursed for expenses. Either way, you turn problems into making money. YOu either proceed as you wish or it may be a while but there is going to be an out of court settlement to fund a haunt at another location.

There are places in America that don't have to deal with that crap. I have been in both types of places and can totally not deal with union bullshit to make a living. If leases victimize smaller businesses and only large billion dollar companies can afford to pay for union build ups and cover the costs then they screwed up signing a lease with you. Since this is the new future of the rust belt they can start now boarding the mall up with plywood and chains. Or they can change they way they do business. It isn't like they are building or expanding the mall and dealing with construction unions and political kick backs or mafia deciding who's brother needs a contract.

Or are you supposed to be paying protection money no one told you about? Sounds like the beginning of a Chuck Norris movie to me. Or rather this is why large numbers of people have decided to be freaky scary in another way. It's not all about scaring little kids. It's about living life they way you want. Even if that means driving up with a hearse and collecting some leasing agents kidneys for money. Tasering large union dumbfucks and flash mobbing all the shoppers with regular zombie gatherings with haunt actors and zombie groups from the next 4 states. Yeah, I said all that.

What was that? there was going to be a special addendum to the contract? That's what I thought. You know haunt people can get kind of weird. They can also haunt a place well after they are gone if there was a situation of hate. I have always done high quality work and I have always gotten paid when I wanted to get paid. I just want to make a living and if I can't it is going to get weird.

08-18-2012, 03:47 PM
I've started a little union rhetoric of my own...they didn't like too much! ;) Now they want to have a sit down to discuss things! So if you don't see anymore of my post after Monday...look for me & my new concrete shoes in the Atlantic! LOL I ain't skeered!:)


You just made my weekend a little better :)

Creepy Works
08-24-2012, 12:49 AM
Any updates??

08-24-2012, 12:30 PM
Just finished the last of four meetings with the various trade unions...they want to present me with a "very attractive package" to do this union. I told them when you present it "I'll tell you if it's ATTRACTIVE or not since I'm the one paying for it! Should see something from then before end of next week! I'll keep posting updates as I get them.