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**xxxdirk** · 02-15-2010, 07:53 PM

O great and wise one your soothsaying always leave me with a smile on my face regardless of what you post. You are a souce of inspiration and I love all that you have done for the education of haunters!
Ron

**Grimley** · 02-16-2010, 08:35 AM

Setec Astronomy

**drfrightner** · 02-17-2010, 04:01 AM

So much is going to change over the next 2 or 3 years...

Yeah I can see TW wanting to reunite haunts with retail simply to save the retail show from the whale known as Rubies. Probably a smart or rather only no rather best move. Nice to know we are needed finally! LOL

As for all these other shows I mean OMG we have Canada, West Coast, East Coast, Hauntcon, Midwest, IAAPA, and Transworld...

THEY WILL NOT ALL MAKE IT in fact if they rent big halls hoping for tons of vendors forget it... they will fail. I think the vibe I'm getting is vendors are done touring some circuit losing money. IAAPA is the best show to exhibit at outside of Transworld and most vendors don't do that show.

MHC I guess would slide in after Transworld in terms of haunt shows.

There is just no chance all these shows make it, just like four or five magazines won't make it...

I make a prediction we'll go down to 1 or 2 magazines tops, and or one or two true tradeshows and maybe down to just one association. Lets hope!

Most of us have real jobs, most vendors do this part time, most haunters do this part time, we have families, kids, responsibilities, haunts to build, things to do, we can't go to a show every other weekend or for that matter fly from one show one day to another show the next because they are both on the same date. LOL

We can all make a zillion predictions but they mean nothing... things will work themselves out one way or another.

If they all make it great, if they all fail, hmmm...

Our industry doesn't need two associations, forty tradeshows, nine hundred magazines, 6 zillion haunt directories... we as an industry needs a bit more focus on making a handful of things REALLY WORK good for everyone!

That is my opinion!

Larry

**The Nightmare Factory** · 02-18-2010, 04:23 AM

Gentlemen, I am speaking on my behalf, as the events manager for the West Coast Haunters Convention. This show for your information is not only about bringing together haunters, but about helping to educate students. We are not in this to get rich, breaking even is going to be great.

Our show is going to be what is it going to be and I am so very frustrated right now. On the one hand you offer me a place to advertise the WCHC and tell me you'll do anything to help, but on the other hand you do this, you talk down about other peoples hard work. I appercate the fact that there are a lot of different conventions, and that me adding one more to the mix IS asking a lot from vendors. I am out there everyday beating the streets and internet working with people to help them be a part of our little show. Little for now, but who knows.

I am not sure what you have against my friend Leonard either, but wow.

I have been in the amusement industry for 27 years, as a haunt owner and as a manager of an amusement park, I did not go into this event without doing my research. I know what I am up against, I know what I am doing and have the support of many. I'd like to think I have yours too. Like I said before, this show is not for me or my glory, but for our students and haunters.

Thank you.

**SpookywoodsFX.com** · 02-18-2010, 12:01 PM

Larry, why is it exactly that you think IAAPA is the best show for haunt vendors to show at? Is it because IAAPA has the most Haunted Attraction owners visit than any other show, "outside of Transworld"? What vendors, that you know of, consistantly sell more product at IAAPA than any other haunt show "outside of Transworld"? How do you know this if "most vendors don't"?
It would be great for vendors to know the facts. We could save some money by dropping the rest of the shows for IAAPA. I think you're right, none of us want to spend our time and money "touring some ciruit".

**drfrightner** · 02-18-2010, 05:19 PM

SCAREFACTORY DOES AWESOME AT IAAPA... they write orders and more orders. My booth was directly across from theirs at the show a couple years ago and I know they do awesome at IAAPA.

I've told all vendors who go to IAAPA its about what you bring not how you did... what did you bring? Was it something someone wanted? Did Transworld suck for you last year... was it the show or your product? It was your product no one wanted it don't blame the show.

I'm not talking about Spookywoods FX or any vendor specific just stating a fact... if you go to a show don't rip the show apart and say the show sucked i won't go back, no your product was NOT what buyers wanted blame your product line nothing more.

When it comes to IAAPA yes its the best secondary show for ANY HAUNT VENDOR if you bring the right mix of products. If you don't you'll get lost in a sea of booths... bring animations to IAAPA and you will sell product as an example.

If you are a haunt vendor TRANSWORLD is the best, people looking to buy all sorts of haunt products those who attend IAAPA and keep it mind attendance is 10 times higher, you have a lot of different types of buyers but all in the amusement industry...they are buyers.

Some of these other shows are a mix of buyers with mostly haunted enthusiast looking for little things not the big things. Most of these shows be it IAAPA or Transworld or MHC all cost the same to attend from hotels, food, travel, time away from the shop, and more. Most vendors don't understand business or marketing or know how to value cost of something verse the return of something, they started their business because a deep rooted passion and you need that passion to be a success but that is only the tip of the iceberg. You as a vendor should be seeking NEW BUYERS and doing what it takes to find those new buyers within reason. Who can offer you the most new buyers? Well speaking of Scarefactory they are a very successs business for sure... they understand marketing, they understand their customers, they know what their customers want to buy, they have good people working there, hence they are successful and they should continue to be a success story.

What shows do they attend TRANSWORLD AND IAAPA! Follow the leader! Right? But the reality is that IAAPA would probably not work for all vendors so maybe they should go just depends. It works for some it works for Scarefactory, it works for Oak Island, it works for different vendors then it doesn't work for another one. Just depends on what you have to offer. IAAPA has been trying for years to create a haunt section just can't wrangle up enough haunt vendors to go for the ride.

IAAPA is a show most haunt owners should attend but they don't... kinda dumb on their part, and on the other hand I kinda understand why they don't. IAAPA is NOT set in the right time of year for most haunt owners and vendors but if you take it serious enough you make it work.

I'm NOT saying some of these other shows are not successful or can't be I'm just saying we've gone overboard here... this is too much!

So getting over to Nightmare Factory comments... look vendors are just not going to go to all these shows they just are not... and I think this year you'll see less and less and less of vendors packing up everything and leaving the shop for these events.

Vendors have to make product you can't go to a show every other weekend... you can't invest thousands to write a few thousand in orders. Furthermore by having these shows all over the place is splinting the impact the best shows could have for vendors and add more costs to the industry...that isn't good!

I personally didn't say anything bad about anyone... I'm merely stating a fact that in the end these shows need to focus on seminars, education, tours, meetings, and not focus so much on a tradeshow floor because then it will make your show look like a failure if only a few vendors come.

All of these shows are NOT going to make it, all of these magazine will NOT make it, NOT everyone message board has people posting on it, blah, blah sure anyone can start anything but that doesn't mean you'll have the support you desire. I know that first hand painfully speaking... LOL.

Your show the one you are doing might end up being the best one I'm not saying it won't, I'm saying there is too many and they are NOT all going to make it, and this attempt to bring another magazine into the fold (OMG) thats a mistake because you'll lose a ton of money.

Again its a passion, and I hope what you are doing is for your passion because clearly in this industry most everyone does what they do just simply for passion.

Larry

**Spookyfinder** · 02-18-2010, 10:49 PM

Amazing how Scarefactory can "clean up"... and make all this "money"... yet still have the WORST products/reputation in the entire industry. Hahaha... What's going to happen once the theme/amusement parks actually figure this out?

You know who would "clean up" at IAAPA... UNIT 70!!!

I don't think a haunt owner should go to IAAPA looking for the newest prop... go to find stuff for the back-end... concessions, retail, registers, etc. etc. Go to TW for the new haunt props, animations, etc. etc. Typically vendors at IAAPA have amusement park prices, something I don't think ANY haunt can afford.

I can see however a few of these shows ending... I think Hauntcon is on it's last leg, and maybe the TW Chicago show. IDK... I guess only time will tell! -Tyler

**drfrightner** · 02-18-2010, 10:58 PM

Tyler,

I think Scarefactory is a great company so I hope you were joking... Scarefactory has reinvented many aspects of our industry. This is a sore subject with me actually because I think our industry has dictated pricing, other vendors over the years have tried to make stronger, more durable animations but with that comes additional costs and those animations have been swiftly rejected due to price. Our industry had dictated a price point and we won't go higher... I have many Scarefactory items and some make it for years and years and other break and we fix them no different than most.

I have speakers they blow out we fix them or replace them... its pretty much the case with anything. I've never known Dave to be anything but a stand up person who does everything he can to make things right. I love doing business with Scarefactory.

They do awesome at IAAPA, but like I said I don't know if its for everyone but its a great show!

As for the comments Spookywoods FX I have no clue what he was saying so I have no reply.

As for your other comments I do think some of these tradeshows are going to fall off the map soon... vendors just can't support them.

Larry

**mindtumor** · 02-19-2010, 09:00 AM

Larry I am sure more haunt owners wouldn't be "kind of dumb" and attend IAAPA if they weren't tearing down their show for 2 to 3 weeks. Maybe if they moved IAAPA to December more people would be able to attend. Please clairfy exactly what you mean by "kind of dumb".

Also, I think but don't know, that the industry has dictated the price they can afford to spend on animations, because they can't afford any higher. I think they said if you want us too buy we have to be able to afford. Don't most industries dictate the price of things? I don't understand what your logic is on this subject. Are you upset that animations aren't more expensive? Do you think most haunts CAN afford more expensive props but REFUSE to pay for them? Why is this a sore subject? Are you saying people just don't get that less expensive engineering on props make them break or are you saying people should make more money so they can afford good engineering? Please explain.

**Lord of Fright** · 02-23-2010, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by Rich Hanf View Post

1�..An up coming tradeshow (but really a small convention of sorts in my opinion) may be on it�s last legs. This show, which will be upon us within several months, has appeared to me in a dream and appears to be a dichotomy of sorts. On one hand it�s lack of available info leads me to see this show to be in a state of disarray and confusion.
On the other hand I see the promoter has nailed down an as yet unannounced unprecedented behind the scenes tour of the brand new Harry Potter theme park. A number of this shows usual attendees will not be present, and with new tradeshows opening (Western Haunters to name one �maybe) attendance is questionable. The vision I have of this show continues to grow fainter and fainter. Perhaps my vision coincides with a vision I have for the industries dominant show, which I see poised to buy up this attempt at competition and put it to sleep once and for all!!! Sala Bim�Sala Beem

1B�..An additional vision has just come to me. I see a name�a faint name�could it be Penard Lickel? Yes�I see him as a blowhard�.NO�wait�not a blowhard�but I do see a strong wind blowing�..Blowing�windy�WINDY CITY�YES�that�s it. I see someone named Penard Lickel traveling to the windy city�Chicago of course�very very soon�maybe this weekend in fact. There is a meeting with someone whose name begins with a J. This person works with a Trannys�no�.Trains�..no�Trans�Trans something�that�s all I can make out. Penard Lickel meeting with �J� at Trans.

Please...NO MORE...I am exhausted...I must consult my crystal balls for more breaking predictions. I feel them coming immediately!!!
As it is written, so shall it be. H

It's good to see you back......well ok not really....but long time no see or hear.....I'm starting to think I liked it better that way Rich....dang you guys just don't stop....you'd think after years of this stupidity that it would adventually come to an end. You know..... this industry would be "better" if we would get off our high horses and just work together. Everyone has their Ideas how the industry should be ran...thus the reason for all the conventions....I personally like the different venues, conventions, etc. I learn a lot from the variety of "experts"! I learn what to do and what not to do.....If it weren't for people like Leonard Pickle, I know that this industry would not be where it is today. I respect the kings of this industry and I hate when people like you and Larry want to just bash them all the time....I just don't get it.... So...this "little" convention as you say that is going on on the West Coast happens to be one of the best things I've seen since HauntCon. WCHC offers a new outlet, education for educators, this is something that I believe is a great start for a new avenue with the Haunting community. If we can educate them in the schools, Ie, Def schools and colleges, then we can grow a new generation of haunts with new ideas....I think it better this way then just having them thinking they can just put up black plastic and call it good...then the next thing you know we have more rules....just sayin.....So all I'm trying to say Rich and Larry is lets try to be more open minded and not put others down or call names....you really just loose respect of others.....

**drfrightner** · 02-23-2010, 05:48 AM

Jared,

Maybe you should READ everything I say rather than picking out one comment... yeah its DUMB for haunters not to attend IAAPA PERIOD!

ITS DUMB for haunters not to attend Transworld's Haunt Show... PERIOD!

Now if you READ what I said maybe you wouldn't make the comments you make... I said CLEAR AS DAY and HAVE SAID FOR YEARS... that IAAPA is at the WRONG TIME OF YEAR FOR MOST HAUNTERS!

I told IAAPA POINT BLANK that many haunt owners are nomads and change locations from year to year so what are they doing in November????????

I've already said that like 100 million times. Back when IAHA was trying to sway everyone out of Transworld and into IAAPA, what a mistake that was, because IAHA made IAAPA look stupid or was it IAAPA looked stupid for ever trusting IAHA, whatever, either way a big massive section was set up at IAAPA show for a haunt section which IAHA was suppose to sell for IAAPA. That never happened.

I TOLD IAAPA it would NEVER HAPPEN EVER... because MOST vendors do NOT have the time to vend at a show that comes right off the heals of their busiest season. There is NO time to make new products, and not to mention they are just worn out. I have personally talked to many vendors and told them if I thought they would or wouldn't do well there, I think some would do very well while others would not do so well based on my knowledge of the show. I think some are smart for not going, and others shouldn't cry about not having business in the off season when they skipped a major show like this leaving most of the haunt sales to one or two companies. That is a mistake on their part.

As for haunts MOST haunts are in temporary locations and must tear down the show and store away, then I tell them and then what... ummm Thanksgiving which is the weekend after IAAPA. Now I tell them it won't fly because so many haunts are now staying open until a few days prior to the IAAPA show... so NO I'm NOT an idiot I understand FULLY!

With all that being said let me tell you something, and this is a fact my friend... when you make a commitment to be the best at what you do, when you want to succeed you make sacrifices you do what it takes to make your business grow, you take chances, you take risks, you dig deep for information, education, new idea's, new means in which to grow, expand your business.

SO YEAH NOT GOING TO IAAPA IS A DUMB MOVE... you figure it out! If you can't make it happen for all the reasons listed above okay its understandable but MOST OF THE HAUNTS who say they won't attend IAAPA state other reasons which is DUMB!

Funny how every year I see the same faces at IAAPA, the 13th Gates, the Netherworlds, and the list goes on and well those are the most successful haunted houses out there... most of the people I talk to who say they won't go to IAAPA say they won't go because they don't think it would be worth the trip because they are not a Six Flags.

WRONG!

Over 80% of every booth there is one or two booths selling some simple little product many which can help your business... look I fully understand not everyone is made of money, not every haunt has a great year, and not all haunt owners can just pack up and leave for several days because you are still trying to get your feet on the ground... GOT IT!

BUT those who can and don't are just not thinking straight!

So yeah there is a difference in what I'm saying and if you had ever taken the time to read everything I've ever said about IAAPA you'd know how I feel about the subject.

MOST HAUNTS SHOULD ATTEND IAAPA maybe not ever year, (ive said that before as well) but atleast once ever year or two or three...otherwise you will fall behind your competition that is attending.

Do you have ONE FOOT IN THE DOOR, ONE FOOT OUT THE DOOR, is your glass half full or half empty... make a choice and do whatever it takes to get booth feet in the door.

Jared my goal is and always will be to motivate, push, and pusher harder people like you to overcome fears, pitfalls, and problems so you can achieve your ultimate goals.

NO disrespect meant by anything I've said only trying to state a FACT about IAAPA. I will say the same thing about Transworld. I've already talked to several haunt owners who told me won't make it to Transworld this year... I'm like WHY? Its ONCE just ONCE this whole entire year? Are you serious? Everyone has their own way of doing things, I just don't have to agree that its the right thing for me or for anyone who runs a haunt business.

Larry

**drfrightner** · 02-23-2010, 06:15 AM

ANIMATIONS:

Jared,

One thing I need to understand better when I make these posts is that you haven't been around as long as I have, and that most of the people in this industry don't know all the history of the industry and I do. I went to this show (transworld) since 1994 and IAAPA since 1995... yes I know I'm old.

But I've seen all the changes from IAAPA where almost every booth was a flight simulator and most booths where dominated by big giant companies to now almost every booth is a small business and now NO flight simulator booths.

I've seen Halloween show go from Cinema Secrets being the biggest haunt vendor to now selling very little directed for haunts, I saw when Morris had 30 plus booths to now having 1 booth, I saw back when Distortions was a small company selling masks to one day offering animations. You probably don't know but our company was the first selling SCARY animations, everything prior was motorized or talking skull animations.

I was there the first time Scarefactory showed up then wasn't there to was there with a Corpseopoltolater I'm sure I didn't spell that right... to everything we see today.

So many things I say are based on the WHOLE ENTIRE history of what I've seen...

When animations first came out talking skulls, talking skeletons and whatever animations cost about $4500.00 or more dollars...

They went up up up in price and eventually it went down down down.

Here is the bottom line on this issue...haunt owners the buyers have dictated the prices for products not vendors. My whole point on this issue is you can't expect something to last for a zillion years if you are not willing to pay for it... do you want something that looks cool while at the same time will last you like something used in a Disney ride? PREPARE TO PAY!

I'm simply saying you can't have it both ways you can't expect something cheaper than AMUSEMENT industry standards (big time animation companies who build animations for Disney, Universal, blah, blah) but expect it to perform like you paid 10 times the money.

No I don't want more expensive animations, because what I want is stuff that looks super cool, that is built like a tank but at the same time is easy to fix when or if it breaks.

As an industry we have spoken and vendors try to meet our price points and they build some pretty awesome stuff within our budgets... most in the Hollywood world can't even believe we pay what we pay. They'll pay tens of thousands of a suit that only makes it one use.

We are getting off pretty good if you ask me!

Larry

**Matt Marich** · 02-23-2010, 06:39 AM

Larry, Your a young pup. respectively speaking. When youv'e been Haunting since 1976 that's really old.

**drfrightner** · 02-23-2010, 06:44 AM

My first haunt was when I was in 2nd grade we charged 50 cents, we had scenes like the invisible man, gi joes in pickle jars, sheets to make a maze hung from the ceiling, it was fun!

I wish I was a pup...

LOL

Larry

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