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  • Screamworks Auction

    Well, as we used to say in the funeral business...It's all over but the cryin"

    The Screamworks auction in Atlanta happened yesterday and I'm sure those poor guys wish it hadn't. The total gross for 5 shows amounted to
    approx $21,000!!! That's it.

    The real tragedy here is like this. These poor bastards bought into what in my opinion is the biggest lie in the business, and that is that Leonard Pickel is the Godfather of this business. Written all over the auction was that this ill fated event was besigned by the Designer of Madison Scare Garden...Leonard Pickel. Of course don't ever talk to Lynton Harris about this as he has personally told me that hiring LP was the biggest mistake he ever made...that not withstanding.

    The Screamworks show was Leonard at his best...and it included all the scares Pickel is known for.....the vacume cleaner scare, fridge scare, the chains on the floor scare (not too dangerous), the handprints on the walls scare...in fact, if this show was not Leonards PERSONAL show, it was designed almost exactly like it. This by the way he calls the Premiere Traveling Attraction in the country today.
    Apparently Leonard is to haunting what Caroll Shelby is to sports cars. If Shelbys personal Cobra just pulled down $5 million at auction, could Leonards shows be far behind? That was the question leading up to yesterday. Today that question was answered.

    The total for 5 Leonard Pickel Shows came to $21,000!!!
    Now, back out approx $5000 for a black hole he had nothing to do with and you are left with $16,000 divided by thew 4 remaining shows equals a stagghering $4000 per Leonard Pickel Show!!! This is what the industry thinks a used Pickel Show is worth. Boys and Ghouls...when will this industry learn...there are none so blind as those that will not see.

    My heart goes out to the owners of Screamworks who believed Leonard to be something special, invested their lifes savings in these lame shows (just my opinion) , quit their jobs...and lost approx $250,000...and now get back $21,000 before expenses.

    At what point are the consultants of shows like this held responsible?

    Like they say...how do you make a small fortune in haunting? Start with a large one!!!

  • #2
    Hmm

    Ok look I am not defending ANYONE.....and I mean ANYONE

    BUT and it is a big BUT

    If you think you can BUY an attraction and plop it down anywhere and make it work you are wrong!
    I would think if someone is going to spend as much as they did, they would have done the research themselves and made a logical decision on what person they would hire to be a consultant.

    NOW if they were to check the references and checked the income of other shows produced by the said consultant and found that there is a history of BS or losing that went on....they would have bailed on the deal.

    Yes it is a sad story for someone to lose their ass on a haunt...someone thought they could just open up and the millions would pour in the door....
    Maybe someone told them that....maybe not
    Maybe they thought they could ride the coat tails of Netherworld and hope the lines were to big and the customers would look for another haunt to visit
    I don't know what transpired....most on this board don't know what happened.

    BUT WE ALL SHOULD KNOW THIS ISN'T A GET RICH QUICK BUSINESS

    AND WE SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT YOU SHOULD CHECK ON PEOPLE YOU ARE DOING BUSINESS WITH...........

    Let me go out on a limb and say 2 things I know for sure:

    1 Wipp will no longer do business with SPOOKY whatever
    2 These guys will never do business with Leonard

    oh 3 the damn lumber the stuff was built with was worth more than they got!!!
    Gee could it get any better than this?

    Comment


    • #3
      The two guys that did this were not Haunters, but saw potential to make money. They lost -
      Play the stock market, you win or you lose...

      I hate they had it tough and it did not work out, but who on here has ever planned for one year? Sure you plan for the year, but it is a long term process that takes time to build a rapport and customers.

      I don't care what transpired...

      I came, bid and actually wish I would have bid more... My regrets watching the two Haunts I actually WON for $11,000 SLIDE FROM MY GRASP when they did a Complete Bid Offer... :evil: But Se La Vie! Or something like that!

      Comment


      • #4
        Ken,

        I don't disagree with you, this isn't a get rich quick scheme. I would also imagine, they did some homework, found www.leonardpickel.com and saw he was the Godfather of the industry, the king of sting, the best, the only, the creator of the wheel and probably figured they found the person who could help them as you put it... get rich quick.

        I talked these guys, I think they actually liked Halloween and haunted houses, and wanted to open their own business. They found as many do that running a haunted house, isn't easy as it sound. But when you compound that with hiring a guy who know nothing, his haunts might as well have been built in 1970, a guy who thinks his way is the only way to do it... I mean Ken I saw these haunted house, they had NO PROPS! It was walls painted black, with a vacume cleaner scare, beer in the fridge, chains on the floor which would have killed a person, it was just horrible.

        If you really want to know what it looked like just pick up his books from 20 years ago, and you know. Its really that simple. Leonard takes people's money, and he offers advice that does not work. In this case he sold them all their haunts, all their advice and we see the results.

        Ken, what you do is great, you have passion for your haunt, you've learned over the years. You guys tell me ... Hey Larry you haven't seen in like 5 years, its a lot different c'mon on out. With Leonard he never changes a thing all the way back to his charity haunt days.

        Leonards trail of failures is so long I can't understand why or how people don't know this... but sometimes people slip through the cracks like these guys. I know you don't like me saying these things, but I feel like I need to protect people from flying into fly paper. It seems to happen a lot doesn't it?

        I talked to these guys, wow they were so depressed, so upset, they had no job, no money, no future... it was sad.

        I never want a person to end up like this... I hope this serves as just one more example, and validates what is said about our industry creator.

        Larry
        Larry Kirchner
        President
        www.HalloweenProductions.com
        www.BlacklightAttractions.com
        www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
        www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

        Comment


        • #5
          xxxx
          Kevin
          MindWerxKMG, LLC

          Comment


          • #6
            If and when I EVER have the money to open a haunt... I'm buying from Larry for damn sure! -Tyler
            Chris Riehl
            Sales@spookyfinder.com
            (586)209-6935
            www.spookyfinder.com

            Comment


            • #7
              LARRY

              This is not me saying stop picking on Leonard
              This is me saying DO YOUR RESEARCH IF YOU ARE GOING TO OPEN A HAUNT!!!!

              I would be as broke as these guys if I hired a gun from the industry.
              We did what we know how to do....and we researched it every bit of the way. To spend any amount of money on a haunted house and think you can make more back after 1 year is crazy. It MIGHT happen but don't expect it to happen.
              Gee could it get any better than this?

              Comment


              • #8
                :shock: The only reason I would buy a canned haunt would be because it was CHEAP! :shock:

                2 of the haunts actually had some content. But the other 3 were not much to write home about. I spent and hour looking and trying to figure out there worth.

                The Pit The walls were black and non nondescript, but nothing much to work with other than the entry.. Selling it on the market $8-10k

                Revolutionz - The vortex was all that was there. $3,500 and it was a short one. Someone claimed it was 20' but it was not. 16' at best.
                On the market someone might get $8-9k

                The Slammer - Great concept. No props. $10-12k. Great Facade.


                Shipwreck - My favorite I would have went to $7,000 or $8k. The facades on the inner area were nice and several props and gags could be re-used. My favorite of the lot. It could probably sold on a market scale of $15-17k

                The House (Dang if I can remember the name) - Had potential. but I did not like it. It could have sold for over $15,000 easy w/ all that was inside, but alas no one was there to give that for it.

                If someone paid $250,000 for these haunts, it is sad.

                For someone starting out this would have been a decent deal at $60k. But as it turns out it was a very good deal for the guy paying $23,500! :twisted:

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think you're doing your research when you hire a consultant...THIS IS NOT ME PICKING ON HIM BUT...

                  When you visit his webiste he says this the know it all, he's the godfather, he says other aspire to be like him, he publishes a magazine, he runs his own tradeshow. Blah, blah...

                  Call me stupid but if I was opening a haunt, and knew nothing, and did some research found his magazine, saw the gazzilion ads about how great he is in the magazine, or read anything off his website I would probably have to believe he's the master!

                  Now I agree with you, you can't stop there, thats like visiting only one car dealership. So yes I here what you're saying and agree with you. But dont' fool yourself, anyone who might stumble on the Pickel, and didn't know any better would have good reason to believe he's truely an expert.

                  I've heard some of his closest friends tell me they wouldn't ever hire him for consulting. They know better...but the first time guy doesn't.

                  If Pickel knows what he's doing, I promise you those guy wouldn't have ended up as bad as they did first year or not. I went there at IAAPA, and I hate to say but just about everything was wrong. A real consultant, someone who visited that site, spent time with these guys, would have picked up on these mistakes and helped them.

                  I'm not bragging but the first year I opened Darkness I made every penny back and a 50k profit to boot! The start up costs where about $170,000.00 and then we had operation costs, all told it might have been in the $300,000 plus area. We made all of that money back and then some first year.

                  That isn't always the case I understand but to lose $250,000.00, to be suckered into buying those dumps of haunts for an absurd amount of money, was the first mistake that led to their doom.

                  At the end of the day, we can see just what one of these haunts are worth... just about nothing! Less than the plywood costs...thats sad!

                  Ken, if you had an auction for your haunt what would you get 100, 200, 300k? You could actually have a real auction because your haunt has props...this haunt had NONE! Pickel believes in the low gore, high starte, whatever in the hell that means. I guess that guy has never played a video game, or seen a cool movie, you gotta have cool props and scenes. Oh well.

                  Larry
                  Larry Kirchner
                  President
                  www.HalloweenProductions.com
                  www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                  www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                  www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    xx
                    Kevin
                    MindWerxKMG, LLC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Even he's embarrassed of the work he did... LOL

                      Here's the funny part, if you go to Screamworks website it says from the creator of Madison Scare Garden. They promoted him as the designer, although I would hardly say he created MSG. But that was another MAJOR flop, and Lynton got up in front of the industry, and said "I WAS SOLD PILES OF WOOD". I'll never forget that.

                      Larry
                      Larry Kirchner
                      President
                      www.HalloweenProductions.com
                      www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                      www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                      www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ahhh... I love Lynton! He did an amazing job in 2000 at Kings Island Fearfest; Great Work. -Tyler
                        Chris Riehl
                        Sales@spookyfinder.com
                        (586)209-6935
                        www.spookyfinder.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ha

                          Larry by the looks of things at these auctions lately.....we would all be lucky to cover the costs to make the stuff!

                          Skull Kingdom


                          One thing I could never figure out????
                          How can anyone walk into a new area/town (insultant or not) and say what is good and what is bad?
                          OK location...sometimes you are stuck...we were in a strip mall for 3 years
                          BUT can I say I will move the haunt to another strip mall in ......St Louis?
                          NO WAY!!! I would have no clue if it is going to work or not....it is all a gamble and when you gamble everything you have, it is bound to smack you right in the ass(I wonder what that translated to).

                          Gee and Transworld is going to Vegas for us to lose more than just a haunted house!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
                          Gee could it get any better than this?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Unfortunately there are a few on the Resume that are not mentioned.

                            In today's cost of Lumber a grand signature elm street unit is 185 panels and could be built for $5555.00 All the wall painting would certainly take some time if it is one of those. But, then you factor in that these things are really circa 1993 and have made "something" back as far as income goes over all of the years I think that means they are 13 years old and kind of already paid for themselves.

                            It's a turn key no time invested piece of magic that makes people spend big bucks. Those that have no big bucks can afford to make no mistakes and do lots of it on their own with only sweat equity over years.

                            Even an elm street unit would need lots of actors and lots of props to be something. And the gypsy show of coming into towns unheard of before and driving out in a ferarri never existed.

                            You can't give some guy in Nigeria your bank account number either.

                            No one has mentioned how many customers they were able to get or why it failed. Was there no advertising or was it just word of mouth that the event sucked? I find that this $2 per customer formula for advertising is not right as well. Or that if it is suggested that you just spend $25,000 on advertising it just guarentees that $10,000 is made which is usually what the contract is signed for to bring a unit and set it up. Rarely does or has anyone out right bought these units when they can be "leased" as an experiment.

                            Knowing this I would imagine at some point these guys got so excited and plain out paid 10 times what the things cost and went it alone with out any good advice what so ever. On Leonard's board he actually asked Ben how he liked having another attraction in his back yard. This makes me think he got cut out at the point of the sale. Or he's completely insane and has some really big gonads.

                            There's also this thing about setting up anywhere in the south. Can you say bible belt?

                            So many fail because of a non stop stream of disinformation. There hasn't been any quality control on who is the speaker at a seminar at Transworld, rather it has been who has something to say for no compensation and can we get that many speakers. When the industry starts paying for content they might get some.

                            The very thing that you guys get excited about (Transworld) is a great place to get all the noobies in one place and ask them how much money they have. It's a double edge sword.

                            If you have somehow made lots of money in some other business it would be pretty easy to think you could make so much more with a haunted attraction. You would think it is a given. Like most "industries" there seems to be more money in the information and consulting angles than actually opening a loser haunt. Obviously everyone postures themselves to make it look like they have something that you need and have gotten this by years of success.

                            In anything only 2 in 100 actually make a go of it. Every year another 200 come to Transworld and maybe 4 make it past year 3.

                            If it is really as you guys say there is criminal activity involved and if there is no recourse it must be some slickly drafted contract I would like to know about. I would love to be in the business of building $5,000 haunts and selling them for $50,000. That would work.

                            Unfortunately you have to have the posture to say you can excel in this if you are properly informed if you are going to sell even the smallest thing as a video. Everyone would love to think they can run a built up attraction for years and sell it for as much or more than they invested in it even thought they made money from customers over the years operating it. These things just are not talked about.

                            I've watched years of gypsy wagons being theived from. Gypsy wagons hidden from creditors. Customers being herded like cattle in gypsy rip off shows never to return. There seem to have been a lot of fires, now a lot of auctions. Lots of long time brutal fist a cuffs in the history here. It took me a real long time getting over the issue that gay werewolves even existing. What the F was I getting myself into and associating with? All of these terrible things are actually some kind of desperation that no one wants to acknowledge. All of these things are scarier and more risky than anything you find inside of the haunted house.

                            So what do you do about it?
                            sigpic

                            Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And it all began with P.T. Barnum.
                              "Seasonal?" Well, whenever the circus pulled into a town it was "Circus Season!" Down the road tommorow.
                              He sent guys hanging posters out unheard of miles in every direction from where his tents were due to be set up and even in those times of poor roads and no cars, they came!
                              He was a showman! (He made lots of money)
                              Did he ever give a seminar?
                              He was also leading the way for the later Rock promoters by paying unheard of sums for singing talent and touring her, Jenny Lind!
                              Study P.T. He was light-years ahead of his time.
                              hauntedravensgrin.com

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