Like to see military zombies disapear

[Karl Fields]

BTW Wicked, I call BS on your 'poll'. You really want us to believe people identify themselves as active duty, former military, on your Facebook poll? And Korean War vets - wouldn't they be like 75+ years old by now?

My own data shows only three responders to this thread that are ex military, all oddly enough Marines, and all saying your idea is full of it.

Just stiring the pot,
Karl

I did a facebook poll of those avg. people outside of industry. Message I got was what I expected. People do not like the idea of them...with a passion. Active military seem to dislike very much...but kicker is it seems they would not say anything just ignore it. Seems to be much more of a how do I call it....a reserved just leave those they despise alone type attitude. Korea War vets...they are ready to kick ass. One comment was put firemen zombies in haunts and see how many pass fire codes.

[soultrkr]

Interesting I really think this would be decided more by simple Economics. If they produce them and they don't sell they will not produce anymore and stop selling them. If the produce them and they sell they will continue to sell them and this means there is a market somewhere that is not offended.

When your arguing taste you are entering a very grey area mostly due to the fact we do not all think the same.

Due to this I think if it sells it sells if it does not then it does not. let the market decide the fate of props like this and haunts that use it. In the end regardless of what we think on a personal level the consumer will be the ultimate judge of taste.

If you are offended good because this is America and you have the right to be offended, Vice versa the person making the product has the right to offend you that is both the blessing and the curse of free speech.


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire

:-)

[shawnc]

The reason I wouldn't do it is for fear of offending the families of servicemen. There are still hundreds of thousands in the war zones right now who they worry about every minute of the day. And in my tiny county of less than 135,000 there have been six young men killed in Iraq. I would declare bankruptcy and throw everything in the trash before I would do anything that might hurt any one of those six families.

[unihaunter]

free to offend

I will fight for your right to offend........free speech is what our industry runs on.Something offends everybody won't be long our fake blood will have to be safety orange.....But all things have a place and a time anything can be done in good taste.Legends of the Fog have a fireman zombie in one of there videos walking in the parade not offending at all he's kinda funny.

[Jim Warfield]

Which would we rather ?

Offend or bore someone?
Boring haunts aren't any fun either(I am told) I once described my place as a version of Mad Magazine, sort of offensive but moral, teaching by bad example. This might be true for most haunts..sort of.

[Mike Goff]

something about this thread has been eating away at me, and I think that I may have put my finger on it.
It sucks because I feel like the side that is against military zombies, have thier hearts in the right place, they are looking out for the troops, and in a way, sticking up for them. That is way better than what Viet Nam vets experienced, and all vets should be grateful for the people that got our backs.
I think that there are alot of misconceptions that should be cleared up. I don't know anyone who joined the military, for this larger than life patriotism. Most who enlist in a combat occupation, joined for a sense of adventure, payback for 9-11 and alot do it, for the "get it on" factor. Regardless of thier reason for joining, once they have been in a while, and had all of thier individuallity, and "freedom" stripped from them, they understand, like never before how precious freedom really is. They mature to the intent of our founding fathers.
Sure there are things that offend vets, but vets are not fragile, and I would like to think that they would fight to the death to defend someones right to say something stupid. Lets hope that is true, because the day that our military and former military, does not understand the intent of our founding fathers we are all in deep feces.
As for rethinking the industry, we are all individuals, we congregate together to exchange ideas, and to pool resources, but no one has the power to tell someone else what they should or should not be doing.
NO ONE SPEAKS FOR THE WHOLE INDUSTRY, and no group of people, no matter how large and connected they may be, can speak for an individual and the way he or she chooses to run thier business.
Sometimes when I read these threads, it is almost like there are people who want the industry to be controlled, if not by legislation, by public opinion, I hope I am wrong about this. It is good to exchange thoughts on these topics, but let's not forget it's all academic.

[voodoo willy]

Plain and simple people are going to do what they want to do! I personally would not be offended if I saw this at any other place but a Memorial day parade. I just think it is in bad taste. Many of the people at these parades are from later generations who fought in wars that where more gruesome than our generations war. Can you imagine hopping of the boat during the island hopping campaigns like that...Or in the trenches of WWI or in the Jungles of Viet Nam?

I read your first comment Mike and I agree with you up until you started talking about other Marines positions like the pencil pushers and cooks. Without those guys nothing would get done, you wouldn't get your equipment, gear or anything. Belittling them because there not combative is not cool in anyway. I am a former USMC...I was in a combat engineer batalion..not as exciting as a scout sniper but I got to blow shit up every now and then. I didn't choose my field. I joined just to get away didn't care which branch or job. But I didn't disrespect any Marine..may not had use for some..didn't like most officers but I respected them. My grandfather ( a Korean war vet) told me something a long time ago. Make friends with the cooks and supply Sgt.'s...you'll never go hungry and you'll have fresh boots in the winter.

[wickedfarmer]

Karl;

I did not go into detail that the polling I have done was facebook, local newspaper, relatives (one of the Korean War Vets). Wiithout looking back someone on here said something about polling this isssue..and I responded. This was a lively topic for local newspaper (online blog) after the parade incident. I abreviated without giving you the long boring details. If you are not familiar with facebook; you know who your friends are who respond...they are not total strangers unless you are a gamer. I will concede there are many valid points given by those on other side of fence. Probably reason I am so anti military zombie is the first one I saw was lurching down the street in Memorial Day parade.

I have seen threads on here about "clowns or no clowns" "animatronics or no animatronics" So I threw this out.

[Karl Fields]

It's all good Wicked. Like I said, just stirring the pot. We all have different ideas on what constitutes a haunt or even how to promote it. Some are bad ideas and some brilliant, but in the end the difference is what makes most haunts unique.

Karl;

I did not go into detail that the polling I have done was facebook, local newspaper, relatives (one of the Korean War Vets). Wiithout looking back someone on here said something about polling this isssue..and I responded. This was a lively topic for local newspaper (online blog) after the parade incident. I abreviated without giving you the long boring details. If you are not familiar with facebook; you know who your friends are who respond...they are not total strangers unless you are a gamer. I will concede there are many valid points given by those on other side of fence. Probably reason I am so anti military zombie is the first one I saw was lurching down the street in Memorial Day parade.

I have seen threads on here about "clowns or no clowns" "animatronics or no animatronics" So I threw this out.

[Karl Fields]

Damn - another Marine? We ought to start a club....

Without going back and rereading his posts, I took what Mike was saying as something that I used to run into all the time, some H&S guy (nothing wrong that that) telling made up war stories. Only takes a few minutes to determine if the guy is BSing or not. It kind of offends me, as a grunt, to be listening to a guy who has never seen combat, to be trying to talk the talk.

Back in the day, we didn't get to choose our MOS, it was just the luck of the draw who got what job, for better or worse. Maybe it wasn't the sharpest cookie that was an 0311, but we are still proud of being one. Well at least 45 years later it is, to be truthful, it sucked at the time

Plain and simple people are going to do what they want to do! I personally would not be offended if I saw this at any other place but a Memorial day parade. I just think it is in bad taste. Many of the people at these parades are from later generations who fought in wars that where more gruesome than our generations war. Can you imagine hopping of the boat during the island hopping campaigns like that...Or in the trenches of WWI or in the Jungles of Viet Nam?

I read your first comment Mike and I agree with you up until you started talking about other Marines positions like the pencil pushers and cooks. Without those guys nothing would get done, you wouldn't get your equipment, gear or anything. Belittling them because there not combative is not cool in anyway. I am a former USMC...I was in a combat engineer batalion..not as exciting as a scout sniper but I got to blow shit up every now and then. I didn't choose my field. I joined just to get away didn't care which branch or job. But I didn't disrespect any Marine..may not had use for some..didn't like most officers but I respected them. My grandfather ( a Korean war vet) told me something a long time ago. Make friends with the cooks and supply Sgt.'s...you'll never go hungry and you'll have fresh boots in the winter.

[voodoo willy]

Your right..

Hey Karl...maybe we should start a poll and see how many haunters or inspiring haunters are ex Marines....that would really show how off in the head we are. USHC...United States Haunting Corps...Semper ??? Whats Latin for Haunting:grin:

[Darkangel]

Asking a Korean war vet seems a bit strange to me anyway, did you honestly think he would understand haunted houses regardless? That's a whole different generation and the vast majority of folks at that age wouldn't "get" what we do anyway former military or not. In fact, it's probably more from that gentleman's generation that we are trying to shed now and prove to the world this is a cutting edge, safe, legit business and enetertainment option.

DA

[Jim Warfield]

I often have lunch

with some 80 yr. old people and some of them are Korean war vets.
"Understanding" is a two way street.
Do they understand us? Do we understand them?
Growing up during the Depression, farming for a living through very lean times, watching the country be forced into WW2, then coming of age to be finding yourself in Korea in some very dire combat circumstances, then to survive....maybe they are more deserving of us taking the time to understand them first? It just seemed you were being kind of "flip" when you said they don't get "it". Maybe I put too much of my own latent, homocidal ,burling anger into reading what you said, maybe I'm going to far... (of course what I just typed is a joke)
I often have to call upon this empathy when someone is too afraid to walk into my house or begin having a problem remaining in the house.
Everyone comes from a different "place" in this life. Calm or fear get handed out sometimes irreguardless of anything to do with age, family or social standing. Something in them doesn't get, that I am not about to inflict harm upon them.
We all may learn much by listening to those who have been there, and basic positive treatment of others goes a long way towards ensuring one's own success.
Alot of us don't "Get" alot of things, that's when you display some compassion and become helpfull.
But then, maybe you already get all of this and I'm just being too preachy?
First born children are often like this, needing to inform, educate and help others, like those young siblings we were put incharge of.....and we can be a ass-pain about it sometimes too, sorry.

[wickedfarmer]

Look out world! I have sparked a uniting of leather necks that are haunters now Karl; a peek into the twisted grey matter between Wickedfarmers ears. I never served. Only rifles every aimed at me were loaded with blanks. Closest I have ever been to combat was 135th anniversary of Gettysburg where 20,000+ of us were in blue or grey wool. Luck would have it I wore blue first 2 days then grey the third. We drew instruction cards for Pettigrews Charge (Picketts charge) Under orders not to let anyone else know your directions as to how far you went or what you did. Just keep closing on the colors and move forward. Mighty lonely when about 3 of our company of 60 made it the last 50 yards to the line of blue. I never gave a rip about sport teams and stats of players in elementary and on into high school. I would read about Antietam, Bunker Hill, Guadal Canal, and hedge rows of France. As a senior in high school (1984) I cut the editorial cartoon out of newspaper on June 6th. Two guys on Omaha Beach...one says to the other "If they do not remember this 40 years from now I hope I am around to kick some history teachers butt!" I taped this to history teachers black board that day. She came in; saw it glanced at me and nodded; and left it up rest of the day.

There are a lot of former/current military in reenacting units. One of our Civil War pards has twice crash landed with cargo plane into Bagdad. RPG's while in desent onto landing path. Many of us got WWII 101st Airborne later. One event they trucked in REAL 101st vets into the woods in Jan. for Battle of Bulge event. I remember feeling really sheepish marching up to those trucks wearing THEIR uniform. But as we got closer these grey haired old men started cheering like they were 50 years younger for a moment. I think they were tickled that someone actually gave a shit about what they had done years ago. Now with Call of Duty video games too many got into WWII reenacting that do not know/care about history; but just want to shoot someone and I have not been to a WWII event in 5 years. What will stick in my mind about the real vets in those trucks was the reaction of two when I marched by. One jabbed the other with his elbow and pointed at me saying something to the other guy. The other nodded and teered up. Within minutes after cheers of 'give em hell boys" coming from the trucks; the first German machine gun opened on us. Rumor got back to us that night that as soon as some of us fell the trucks went from happy to crying. So am I splitting hairs??? Am I two faced?? I will put on a uniforms that I never earned and reenact history from 1860's and 1940's...but talk against zombies wearing the uniform.

The Memorial Day parade with the zombie was a huge problem for me. For several years I was only haunt in Webberville. Then all of a sudden there was haunt in Webberville that put a zombie in Dansville Memorial Day parade. This was their first ever advertising..they hadn't even built their haunt. So many people assumed it was me. It gave me a black eye that took a long time to distance myself from.

[FEAR ASYLUM]

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