Hey HW Forum Members,
This is going to be a slightly involved post, but i hope you can take a bit of time to read it and comment or send me feedback.
First a bit about my situation: I do a small but detailed / $$ haunt with a spare house i have here in the city im in (Guelph, Ontario, Canada). I have about $60,000 into props and such. I do it for free, because its my hobby and i enjoy it. The venue is small, takes about 6 to 7 minutes to walk through, so again, i dont charge. I have been however looking at the possibility of opening an actual pro haunt where i can charge for admission. I run a very successful business which allows me to afford this hobby, but again, if i can do something i enjoy and make decent money doing it on the side, then i would be open to that. Because its free, i get 1000-1200 people per night coming through the haunt (we only have it open for 2 or 3 nights in Oct), good numbers, but its right in the middle of the city and its free!
I have discussed this in length with my fellow haunters here in the great white north, and we can basically count the number of decent proffesional haunts in our Province (read: state) on one hand. A good haunt is VERY rare here, but there is a growing demand (the haunts in niagara falls open year round arent included as they are very "tourist" oriented, outdated and not very detailed, but more on that later).
The deduction i have come up with focuses strictly on real estate costs and carrying costs for either owning or renting. Dont take offense to this, but the majority of the US real estate market as you know has gone to $hit, and the price to buy or rent is fairly low in many markets. In addition there is a massive amount of empty buildings, abandoned supermarkets, warehouses etc in the USA, where that is virtually non-existent in Canada (at least in any area within a 4 hour drive of me)
I also attribute this reason to why i dont hear of any decent number of major haunts in California, because, again, real estate prices and rental prices (leaving universal studios and knotts scary farm out of this)
Because of the above, When i crunch my numbers for running a haunt, the biggest expense by far is either the mortgage cost, or rent cost. I should also add these scenarious ive been working is for either A) owning a building, which i will occupy year round and only open in October, or b) renting a buildng year round, so i dont have to setup and take down, and only opening in october.
As an example, my local real estate market looks like this, and keep in mind my city and the citys around me are medium sized 100K-500K people, the major city Toronto is 1 hour away. Real estate and rent there is even more costly then described below.
-The current property i own is 1.3 acres, and has a very old 1500 sq ft house and shop i do the haunt in, value, $700,000 (about the same in USD)
-In this area, a small farm with an old house and enough room to build a 5000-8000 sq ft buiilding for a huant, STARTS at $600,000, and is likely closer to $1M.
-Renting here is not cheap either, industrial space is on average $5-$6 per square foot, per year, plus TMI (taxes, maint, insurance), which can be anohter $3-$4 per square foot. So to rent, say a 5000 sq ft space for a year would cost $50,000 per year.
So, the way i work it out, whether i own a building valued at $500,000-$600,000 or rent a 6000 sq ft space, im paying about $50,000 a year in total (mortgage or rent, taxes, insurance etc) and in the case of buying i need $200-$300K (thousand) for a downpayment and renovations and props etc.
Now, given that haunted houses are usually open Friday, Saturday and Sunday in October (im not talking about the crazy large ones like the Darkness or Netherworld) but your average pro haunt, thats what, 12 days per year in total? Assuming a ticket price of $15, because again, this would be for a haunt thats 5000-6000 sq ft, i would need 3340 people through in a season just to break even, at a total of 12 days thats 278 visitors per night, every night, paying. To make a decent profit, say $50,000 a season, i would need 500 people per night, every night.
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SO.................... now that you know my situation, and what the average pro haunt situation would be here in Southern Ontario, i want some input. I know that there are more factors to consider, such as marketing methods and costs, cost of aquiring customers etc, but lets keep it simple for now:
1. Is a season profit of around $50,000 unreasonable to expect for a 5000-6000sq ft haunt? I KNOW haunting wont likely make you rich, but it has to be worthwhile to go pro and risk capital.
2. Am i correct in my assumptions that the profit differences between a haunt here, and the average haunt in the usa, is set apart by the real estate prices or rent?
Some personal questions for haunt owners, please feel free to PM me directly, i will not share any of this data with the members of the board or anywhere else online/published.
3. What is your yearly cost for your rent or mortgage? In the case of owning, how much did you pay for your building and how big is it? For the case of rent, how big is it?
4. How many people on average do you have come through in a season? How many nights are you open?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically im trying to decide if its worth doing this, or just keeping it free and fun
Shawn
This is going to be a slightly involved post, but i hope you can take a bit of time to read it and comment or send me feedback.
First a bit about my situation: I do a small but detailed / $$ haunt with a spare house i have here in the city im in (Guelph, Ontario, Canada). I have about $60,000 into props and such. I do it for free, because its my hobby and i enjoy it. The venue is small, takes about 6 to 7 minutes to walk through, so again, i dont charge. I have been however looking at the possibility of opening an actual pro haunt where i can charge for admission. I run a very successful business which allows me to afford this hobby, but again, if i can do something i enjoy and make decent money doing it on the side, then i would be open to that. Because its free, i get 1000-1200 people per night coming through the haunt (we only have it open for 2 or 3 nights in Oct), good numbers, but its right in the middle of the city and its free!
I have discussed this in length with my fellow haunters here in the great white north, and we can basically count the number of decent proffesional haunts in our Province (read: state) on one hand. A good haunt is VERY rare here, but there is a growing demand (the haunts in niagara falls open year round arent included as they are very "tourist" oriented, outdated and not very detailed, but more on that later).
The deduction i have come up with focuses strictly on real estate costs and carrying costs for either owning or renting. Dont take offense to this, but the majority of the US real estate market as you know has gone to $hit, and the price to buy or rent is fairly low in many markets. In addition there is a massive amount of empty buildings, abandoned supermarkets, warehouses etc in the USA, where that is virtually non-existent in Canada (at least in any area within a 4 hour drive of me)
I also attribute this reason to why i dont hear of any decent number of major haunts in California, because, again, real estate prices and rental prices (leaving universal studios and knotts scary farm out of this)
Because of the above, When i crunch my numbers for running a haunt, the biggest expense by far is either the mortgage cost, or rent cost. I should also add these scenarious ive been working is for either A) owning a building, which i will occupy year round and only open in October, or b) renting a buildng year round, so i dont have to setup and take down, and only opening in october.
As an example, my local real estate market looks like this, and keep in mind my city and the citys around me are medium sized 100K-500K people, the major city Toronto is 1 hour away. Real estate and rent there is even more costly then described below.
-The current property i own is 1.3 acres, and has a very old 1500 sq ft house and shop i do the haunt in, value, $700,000 (about the same in USD)
-In this area, a small farm with an old house and enough room to build a 5000-8000 sq ft buiilding for a huant, STARTS at $600,000, and is likely closer to $1M.
-Renting here is not cheap either, industrial space is on average $5-$6 per square foot, per year, plus TMI (taxes, maint, insurance), which can be anohter $3-$4 per square foot. So to rent, say a 5000 sq ft space for a year would cost $50,000 per year.
So, the way i work it out, whether i own a building valued at $500,000-$600,000 or rent a 6000 sq ft space, im paying about $50,000 a year in total (mortgage or rent, taxes, insurance etc) and in the case of buying i need $200-$300K (thousand) for a downpayment and renovations and props etc.
Now, given that haunted houses are usually open Friday, Saturday and Sunday in October (im not talking about the crazy large ones like the Darkness or Netherworld) but your average pro haunt, thats what, 12 days per year in total? Assuming a ticket price of $15, because again, this would be for a haunt thats 5000-6000 sq ft, i would need 3340 people through in a season just to break even, at a total of 12 days thats 278 visitors per night, every night, paying. To make a decent profit, say $50,000 a season, i would need 500 people per night, every night.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SO.................... now that you know my situation, and what the average pro haunt situation would be here in Southern Ontario, i want some input. I know that there are more factors to consider, such as marketing methods and costs, cost of aquiring customers etc, but lets keep it simple for now:
1. Is a season profit of around $50,000 unreasonable to expect for a 5000-6000sq ft haunt? I KNOW haunting wont likely make you rich, but it has to be worthwhile to go pro and risk capital.
2. Am i correct in my assumptions that the profit differences between a haunt here, and the average haunt in the usa, is set apart by the real estate prices or rent?
Some personal questions for haunt owners, please feel free to PM me directly, i will not share any of this data with the members of the board or anywhere else online/published.
3. What is your yearly cost for your rent or mortgage? In the case of owning, how much did you pay for your building and how big is it? For the case of rent, how big is it?
4. How many people on average do you have come through in a season? How many nights are you open?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically im trying to decide if its worth doing this, or just keeping it free and fun
Shawn
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