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  • Clean up this business....

    I made a post about attendance now I have a post that may not sound nice to the industry. There is another trend heading our way and it WILL kill this industry or turn it into something most of us will want nothing to do with. Ready? Here we go.

    These are things parents and patrons are saying they are starting to see in haunts:

    Stripper Poles with girls in bra and panties (put some make up on and it's a haunted stripper pole. Right.)

    Young girls with little clothing in near rape situations or extreme violence

    Fettish rooms

    Exposed breasts.

    Okay haunters is this where the industry has to go? Do we need to go this route to get more customers? Forget about saying 18 and older disclaimers, they never are enforced. I saw a quote from a haunter of a photo with a zombie and 3 strippers in his haunt "blood sluts and gore" really folks? Haunted houses are a family affair. If we go this route the industry is done for. Parents will not allow the kids to go, news stations will have negitive press and soon we will go back to the dark ages of the 70's...an obscure shady attraction that only creepers go to.

    Let's take a hard look at ourselves, use our imaginations and keep the clothing on our young women in the haunted houses. Taking the easy way out to attact crowds by adding strippers is wrong, for a time people will come to see it but it will bite not only you but everyone else in the end. Think creatively, think of the kids coming through, would you want your child to see a girl being defiled in a haunt or being tortured while half naked?

    Yes we all have violent scenes in our haunts, blood and guts. That's fine when done right.

    Pushing the envelope in good taste and sex is a recipe for an industry wide DISASTER.

    What are your thoughts? Experiences?

    Stu,
    The Haunting

  • #2
    all I've got to say is amen to that brother..amen

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    • #3
      I disagree, while you will not have the child element, you will increase numbers in the 18+ demographic, which any business student will tell you is the demo that has the most expendable income. Granted from a moralistic standpoint, it may appear wrong, but I for one find nothing wrong with "pushing the envelope". In fact I'd love to see more risque, "disturbed me so bad, i can't get it out of my mind" haunts. I'd shell out 20 bucks for the shocking before i'd give over 20 bucks to see some cobwebs and child actors in raccoon makeup.
      In the Shadows...We are Legion

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      • #4
        And perhaps haunted houses are a "family affair" for you and yours, but from an actors perspective, I'd rather have a bunch of adults coming through than a bunch of tiny children.

        And another thing, I do not feel it is the haunt owners responsibility to censor his/her haunt. If you don't want your kids to be "offended" or "compromised morally", then take them to a disney movie.

        It's the parents responsibility to keep those things out of their childrens eyes, not mine, yours or the haunt owners.

        Don't like the displays? Don't take your kids!

        thats my opinion.

        Everything else in this world is liberal-pussified, lets keep the sanctity of one of the last refuges we have to offend and shock.
        In the Shadows...We are Legion

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        • #5
          Food for thought

          We don't have cobwebs and no we don't have racoon eyed monsters. We are edgy and and cool and the teens come to see our show. That isn't the issue. I'm asking us to take a hard look at what we are doing. If it's morally wrong then why do it? Saying that parents have a responsibility is right they do but a haunted house in their mind shouldn't take them by surprize and see a naked girl being tortured. Parents are being blind sided by this trend. You will not grow an audience this way. Haunts like theme parks grow a new audience every year by keeping it clean.

          I suppose you can push the envelope and that's fine. Art is about pushing the envelope. I predict that the city you are in will allow you to spend a ton of money getting your haunt set up and then come inspection time you will be surprized when the fire marshall or building inspector gets you for something and you are shut down. This happend to Spookyworld years ago. I remember they tried a haunt that had pushed the envelope as you say. The township found them in violation of a sprinkler system and that was all she wrote. One of my favorite haunted attractions was shut down for years and has yet to see the glory it once had. This will eventually happen to you if you are not careful.

          All I'm saying is we are going to have an industry wide publicity meltdown if we decide to go down the easier path. I don't see Universal Studios going in that direction, do you? When they start adding stripper poles and naked women then I think the industry is ready for the next step. Until then I'll make my city government happy so I can stay in business.

          Thoughts?

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          • #6
            "?Naked Torture"?

            Maybe everyone would like to see some naked politicians tortured? Maybe some torturing of Wall Street shady types? Maybe the guys responsible for some extremely hurtfull business decisions that left you 401s out in the rain?
            There you go! A whole new creative concept/way to go!
            Paying good money to see a 4 ft. tall "Frankenstein" is customer torture, or so I have read, but then almost anything might "entertain" a paying customer if done right.
            Is the main entertainment on-line still porno?
            Seems like that is what it used to be.....
            We all have choices to make and the people making most of the choices will always be parents of small kids and teens.
            hauntedravensgrin.com

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            • #7
              I am not sure if this was a picture from my past haunts that you are referring to but, for the last few years, my haunt offered Adult Only Nights. We did them on Thursday's. We charged a couple bucks a ticket more than on a regular night to get in. Everyone who entered had to be 18 or over and show picture I. D. plus sign an entrance waiver. We did not let anyone under the age of 18 in period. On these nights only, we allowed foul language and partial nudity. The last two years we hired some professional dancers as well. Yes, they brought their own poles. Our customers loved these nights. It took a weekday where we may have only seen 150 - 200 customers and increased it to 400 - 500 customers. Sex sells! This year, we decided not to do the adult nights because of another promotion we are running. It was a big mistake. We have already had over 200 emails and phone calls from bummed out customers, asking why we are not doing the Adult Nights this year. Give me a break on the morality issues. Kids see worse than any of this on TV everyday. ever notice all the "hidden" sexual innuendo on the Simpson's? Or how about Stewie trying to kill his mother on Family Guy? Maybe Sesame Street should be pulled off the air because Bert & Ernie are gay? The fact is, I am a haunter because I love this industry. However, it is a business and I will continue to try and come up with creative marketing ideas that my customers enjoy and can bring in additional income. I am sick and tired of haunt owners that try to tell me what is good and bad for the industry or who think their way of haunting is the right and only way to do things. This is my 24th year haunting, I must be doing something right!

              In nudity I trust!

              Howie "Slobber" Erlich
              Owner
              Deadly Intentions Haunted Attraction
              www.deadlyintentionshaunt.com
              1986-1997 (Mutilation Mansion,) 1998 (Screamers Haunted House,) 1999 (Evil Intention Haunted House,) 2000-2001 Concept Creator/Business Partner (Urban Legends Haunted House,) 2002 Floor Plan Designer and Consultant for a (Haunted Barn) Owners had city challenges & were never able to open, 2002 Floor Plan Designer/Construction (Fright Nights Haunted House) 2003-2012 Now retired Owner (Deadly Intentions Haunted Attraction)

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              • #8
                I applaud you howie. I personally feel that your adult only nights are an excellent idea. Morality is relative to the speaker. I think that as a free will human being, if you are offended by a haunt, then dont go....but to expect others to "tow the morality line" because it "hurts the industry" is foolish. Thats the sort of "if I don't like it, others shouldn't be able to enjoy themselves" attitude that outlawed smoking in bars. Just because certain individuals do not like, nor accept the happenings in the industry does not give them the right to chastise or tell others that what they are doing is wrong. From the other postings of the original poster, I see that his haunt is having a rough start to the year, ive seen others that are having incredible starts. Perhaps the OP's house is stagnant due to bending to the "status quo". And as for saying "i will continue to make my city departments happy", good for you, keep the righteous aspect alive...without those that will do what is told, there would be no one else willing to throw the normal expectations to the wind and push the envelope towards a possible new dawn of non-politically correct haunts.

                To each their own, but in my world, and the world I want to be a part of, there is no "do it just because its the moral thing to do". There would be more, "if you dont like, it, dont come". I bet 95% of the paying audience would be interested in adults only nights. Id risk the decline in children for a boost in adult attendance, as is pointed out by the above poster.

                If you rely on the younger audience for your profits, by all means continue the family friendly atmosphere, but its not fair or your place to condemn others for thinking outside the box or making progress towards something that you personally do not believe in.

                Judge not lest ye be judged.
                Last edited by Octoberalles; 10-04-2010, 10:16 AM.
                In the Shadows...We are Legion

                Comment


                • #9
                  My opinion

                  Anything, in moderation and scary is a good thing...however....
                  I agree with the original post, but form the perspective it"s not always being done well, and it's gratuitous.
                  Naked or violent for no other purpose that to be naked or violent.
                  I personally, don't find that type of haunted house particularly scary or entertaining.
                  I'm not a prude, I love gory houses (my preference actually) but I have been to haunts that are just ridiculous.
                  I feel that as long as there's a balance in the industry between adult only and family fun, the industry will survive, it just may split. As long as those who "pigeon-hole" themselves into one category or the other don't complain about their attendance or advertise themselves as the other, it should all work out.
                  Do Vegan Zombies eat heads of lettuce?

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                  • #10
                    bert and earnie are gay? noooooooo im never watchin seseme street again

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                    • #11
                      I think you can have adult only nights without having to resort to nudity or sexualizing the haunt. You just have to be more creative.
                      You see this kind of 'cop out' in horror movies all the time. Hi, I can't write an original screenplay with genuine scares so I'm just gonna use shock value.
                      No offense.

                      If you want to do that in your haunt then by all means, it's a free country. It's just not my cup of tea.

                      As far as it hurting the reputations of haunts in general, it might create some bad publicity but I think those haunts who do not have overt sexual themes will be sought out because of it and get MORE business.

                      Like I said before, I mean no offense to anyone. Just putting in my two cents.

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                      • #12
                        I'm not here to change people's minds. My haunt did great last year by the way. This is Michigan, ground ZERO for this bad economy. Anyway, what is being missed, and I'm not condemning you haunts. I think we should all have free speech ect. I think Howie did it right by making it clear what people were getting into. What's wrong is that other haunts and I mean alot of other haunts are not making it clear. Epsecially to their local governments. THAT's a problem. Could the industry split? Who knows but if it does I'm betting the naked haunts with fetish rooms will win out. The problem is that the industry very well could become KNOWN for having that kind of show. A reputation like that might kill it for everyone who loves Halloween.

                        If we don't have opportunities for young kids (12-18) to experience a well produced theatrical haunt then nobody will benefit. If it's all about $ and nothing more then fine, there will always be that kind of fly by night operation. Pitch the tent show some flesh get run out of town, not the life for me nor a way for the industry to head. All I'm trying to illuminate is the fact that parents are being, and I'm serious here, blind sided by this tactic. They take their kids out for a nice evening of Halloween fun and end up at a stripper zombie club, not good for the kids, not good for the industry. I'm hearing it more and more that people are saying "I'll never go to another haunt the experience was so bad." All it takes is one time for some people. We need to grow an audience.

                        A word about our haunt. We've been around for 16 years and are doing fine. Yes we are slow at the moment and no I'm not complaining about other haunts taking business away. No we are not stuck in the dark ages with cob webs. We will survive.

                        Our competition is actually shrinking. The bad one's are going out of business or going someplace else under another name, common when you have a bad reputation. You can do this a couple of times but soon they all vanish. I've seen it happen to several haunts over the years. All the while we are still here. We have a solid rep for producing a great show. I've been in show biz for 25 years and know how to produce a show. As far as government politics go, Octoberella your comment tells me you've never owned a haunted attraction. You honestly can't talk to local officials that way. You can't tell them how to do their job and certainly you can't be a jerk to them. This business is all about jumping through hoops, fire inspection, building, electrical and in some cases applying for an entertainment permit that HAS to be approved by city councel. You can't fight city hall if they don't want you in their community.

                        I think getting beaten up over this online is facinating. I was only pointing out that we all have to watch our P's and Q's to make this industry better and keep thriving. Pushing the envelope of decency won't do it. Let's not do anything stupid out there people. Let's think before we leap. $$ are fine but like anything, one bad apple CAN and will spoil the bunch if we are not careful. I am not judging anyone here. I'm creating a dialogue to spark change before it becomes a major issue and it will if we are not careful. Can you imagine if we have be become regulated by the governement on show content? Don't think for a second that it can't happen. You get enough people with deep pockets and connections crying "indecency" trust me they will create change for us and it will not be fun to be in this industry not by choice but by red tape and lots of it.

                        Stu
                        Last edited by myhaunting; 10-04-2010, 01:43 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How amusing for you to assume you are way more intelligent about "city matters" than I. For your information, I have gone head to head with city officials over floorplans, regulations etc for a haunt...if you know the law and what they can and cannot do, you will never be "pushed out of business". and in my day to day job I deal with not only inspectors, police officers, city and state prosecutors and city officials, but also with the court systems and "the permit givers". I have spoken ad nauseum with some of these about the haunt industry and about local haunts that have been shut down for one reason or another and it always comes back to cutting corners....you dont want to be shut down on a technicality like a sprinkler system? Then get one. Problem solved.

                          you mentioned nothing about being shut down because of risque-ness...your original post speaks only about "making the parents want to bring the kids" and you say the industry should "clean up this business".

                          You want to clean up the business because you think the morality is not what you feel it should be and that parents are being blindsided.

                          How is it that a child seeing a human body split open and bleeding is less detrimental to their psyche than a half naked demon on a stripper pole?

                          Youre talkimg out of both sides of your mouth. One side says we need to clean up the industry or risk losing clientele base, and out of the other side you are saying it is because haunts run the risk of pushing the foul button with local governments for not being pc enough.

                          I for one remember the Nightmare in Painesville having a furnace that you walked into with orange lights and smoke while Hitler speeches played. Was that too far? Some thought so and made a stink. They owners changed the room and the season went as business as usual. If they would have kept it would they have been shutdown? Probably not. Would they have lost a portion of the younger audience? probably. Did a ton of people including myself go to see what all the hype was about? Absolutely!

                          Point being, if you dont want to offend or bother YOUR local government, by all means do not....stay the course.

                          But again, its a very holier than thou philosophy to tell others how they run their business is wrong because you run yours with angelic hands.
                          In the Shadows...We are Legion

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm not here to argu with you nor attack you personally as you are doing to me. My thought is in bettering this industry. I don't know what your beef is with kids but it's disturbing. I'm an on call firefighter with the city and have been for 11 years. I know my city hall and they are all different. I can tell you that a temporary show such as our industry is noted for is coming under heavy scruteny. If it hasn't found you yet it will. I honestly don't know how you think I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth? I suppose yes I am but haunted houses are expected to have blood and gutz. We all know those are rubber props and have seen plenty of horror movies with actors getting killed in one way or another. That is called SPECIAL EFFECTS. Now Octoberella let's look at your argumnet about a kid seeing a rubber prop and a half naked woman on a stripper pole. That's a REAL woman. NOT FAKE. Those are REAL BREASTS (as far as real goes). That's what is the problem. Parents are taking their kids to a HAUNTED HOUSE NOT A STRIP SHOW. Got it! Do we have the message now? Okay then now that you understand my point we can move on and have our cake.

                            I'm done trying to make you see my point. I see yours clearly and understand it. I'm not condemning you and I'm not trying to make you become angelic. Be who you are be the artist you are. Just listen to the point I'm making. It's causing a stir because it IS becoming a problem. We either split the industry into Porno Haunts or Family Haunts. A line has to be drawn and distinction made. Are we a gentleman's club? What about naked men? Is that next? You bet it is. I'm sorry I'm sticking to blood and gutz. All that other stuff is going to pigeon hole us into obscurity. Look back in entertainment history and you'll find that it will.

                            I'm done argruing with you.

                            Anyone else feel free to continue this thread...the strangeness and ignorance is astounding.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And one more thing, I apologize if my last post came across condescending or confrontational, it was not meant that way.
                              If the tables were reversed and someone was posting that your haunt wasn't risque enough, I would 100% defend your haunt and reasonings behind why you do what you do,they way that you do.
                              I fully believe that there will be a change in the industry, perhaps to more confrontational haunts with vitriolic situations and that those haunts will not be for the faint of heart. In those situations, I hope the owners are caring enough to warn potential customers about what may be seen and heard in the haunt, thus dissuading parents of young children from wasting their time and money.

                              Again, im just debating for the sake of debating. I personally feel haunts should always be pushing the limits of what will and will not be acceptable. You on the other hand seem to feel the polar opposite. Are you right? Maybe. Am I right? Maybe.

                              Either way its neither of our rights to judge others on how they run their attractions.

                              Best of luck this season, I mean no ill will towards you, your haunt, or your opinions.

                              Dave
                              In the Shadows...We are Legion

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