How do I get my foot in the door?

[Allen H]

Sounds awesome Kirk! Im glad its working out for ya.
No regret,
Currently Im director of a mega haunt. I assure you that it is easier to find ten good actors than it is to find 90. Big or small haunts seems to have some of the same issues. But bigger haunts have more overhead and more liability and more customer wear and tear. I actually wish I could keep my customers in the 10,000 range, but we do about six times that. We also sell alcohol so that ups the wear and tear factor. Im not complaining butcherish your "small haunt" days. You will miss them when they are gone.

[Motograter]

I started out very small in my parents garage. Open only on Halloween night charging just a dollar. after 3 years of that I started working for pro haunts as a actor/manager for 10 years. Now I'm pro thanks to this website hauntworld.com

[DarkTikiEntertainment]

I like this low budget, grass roots type of haunt you are proposing Allen, but wouldn't insurance eat up the entire $5000 budget you proposed? You definitely know more about haunting than I, but I had to ask the question.

[No_Regret]

Thanks for all the tips guys, this is something that I definately want to do, maybe not next year...but possibly the year after...and keep saving money up for it little by little, and see what happens.

As of right now, my work schedule would conflict with running a haunt badly since I work monday-saturday from 3-11 PM. But I could see about using all my vacation days next year and just break them down into half days and leave at 7 to go start everything up.

We'll see how things go.

[Greg Chrise]

I have found getting a good insurance rate takes some shopping and a bit of a philosophy. Basically you put forth the attitude that I don't have any money, they are making me have this piece of paper, I have no intention of making any insurance claims and I might not do this at all if it is a lot of money. Every state has lower limits on policies but, shopping will take maybe 6 weeks or 2 months to get the right answer back.

In my description of my business, I declared I am not up on scaffolding or high ladders, there is no heavy equipment running around to get run over by or to do any property damage so someone in the insurance feild is going to have to explain why I am paying what ever amount. The other angles is that the policy is an all year round policy whereas you are covering the building of this thing being a painter and a light carpenter or using high tech tools like a rake and a broom. Then the "event" is an extention of this that might only cost another $300 if there is something to be concerned about, namely crawling, slides, people flying through the air etc.

By being able to shop, be paitient (and intentionally a little whiney) you might get the whole policy for about $600 down and $150 a month (depending on your state) then of course when you do start making money expect to be dishing out a percentage of confirmed gross income. If you are in a hurry and gotta have this to make money right this minute, expect to pay $2500 cash right now for a piece of paper even if you are only expecting to make $500. If you shop you can possibly get a monthly payment that can be handled.

The next step is how to pay these expenses. Well this is where sponsors come up with money that gets used for the down payment in exchange for their banner at the front gate and the monthly payments come from what was actually made from the event or more sponsors! Each of 12 sponsors has to kick in $150 to be on the fliers or what have you or if they want fewer involved, more money buys those spots and gets more services, mentions of various spots in advertising.

Everything becomes a game of the money comes from the customer, not from a bank or your personal savings that you really don't have yet.

You have to think about how other businesses work. Lowes puts there money into a stock car that ends up on TV running around a track for 2 hours. They might have had to buy a $150,000 car or two and pay th days salary for 12 support people compared to 1 million dollars to run a commercial in prime time. They get nothing back beyond the name on the car. The car could get trashed or it can be taken to every lowes loaction nearby once it is worn out just for something to look at.

Instead of adding all these numbers up and thinking there is no way I can save $20,000 and go all of these places and do all of these things that cost money even in gas to go do. Realize that even a total failure in this industry will still bring in money and probably break even while you learn from your mistakes or cost far less than a vacation to Disney world per year.

Education is expensive and it is better to have spent 10 years screwing up and learning what was wrong or understanding how someone else might have done a better job that could be emulated. It isn't like you are gonna come out the other end with a degree in basket weaving and $120,000 in student loans and intrest due.

A lot of this is serious work and it might take you two or three years to actually spend that $5,000 on the stuff that is the raw materials to make your event. ANd so, it might take you several years to come up with that extra $5,000. Plus everything you build or pick up at a flea market might be worth at least $20 then make you some money and be able to be sold to another haunt trying to expand or the occasional person with money starting up or just having a big party. If you don't yet have an event while building this out, you can be like a haunted house rental company to charity events or big halloween events. All those $20's add up over time like it is a savings account. Real savings accounts are only paying 1/2% or less intrest so it isn't like you are making a bad decision to invest in yourself and events you will gain money from.

It also takes several years to develop a market. How many times have you driven by a restaurant and thought some day I might go there. Sure if it lasts a few years that means it might be something.

To me the big problem is always where to securely store all of this stuff in a proper environment where it doesn't all rot. How much a month that costs seems to be the only thing that doesn't go away if you are keeping in control of your own investment in temporary situations. I'm still trying to figure out my last semi trailer might have actually been free because I bought it, put it on land I was paying for anyhow and then when I didn't need it sold it back to where I got it from for the same amount. They delivered it free and were happy to take it away because they needed it. Compared to years of storage garages at $125 each per month plus a shop to actually build things.

[No_Regret]

Thanks guys, I'm trying to soak as much in as possible...its just a lot to take in.


Is there any way I could go around and ask to use someone's property...and possibly give them a chunk of what I earn? And then once my haunt gets popular enough...go get a place of my own? I dont think i'd want to do strictly an outdoor haunt...but as a start-up, I wouldnt be opposed to it.

[Greg Chrise]

The reason an outdoor haunt was probably suggested may have something to do with a $25,000 building with a $20,000 sprinkler system, with a $16,000 fire detection and warning control system and oh, yeah building the haunt too, spend $25,000 or equivelant minimum advertising and so on. It can certainly be done but years of surprise big ticket expenses await.

You can either make the money or become partners with a dozen people that have all socked away $25,000 as partners and learn to hate each other when it isn't making the millions everyone demanded.

It is much better to develop mask making skilz, makeup skilz, set design skilz, haunt design skilz, haunt lighting skilz, haunt music silz, haunt marketing skilz that all work in your region, where you have proven to your self it really works and be your own person. Then the portion of the gain after expenses of the customers money becomes yours, not the landlords, the many partners, the fire system guys, the radio ad guys etc. Each of these topics begins at an acceptable base line and is improved every year relative to how many people bother to show up.

Back in the day there used to be auctions of pretty drab looking haunts that supposedly had $165,000 invested that sold for $10,000 to satisfy storage fees. You might only see 800 people your first year. I have seen only a few set up in some town and see 7,000 to 10,000 their first offering. Generally it wasn't their first attempt right out of the box, it was a learned program that works just for them for some reason and isn't totally all about having money to buy things. First it seems there was something to sell, a level of quality, an enthusiasm that captured lots of people's imagination. Every contact becomes a positive spark, every potential employee, every person that helped build something, every professional contact, every social networking site.

Conversely if you had to promise a bunch of people all sorts of things that weren't necessarily based in reality, you get left holding the bag or worse yet, you even owe someone a bag.

The skilz can be learned and they are worth something. It takes time.

[Allen H]

Insurance for the outdoor event with a 1,500 expected attendance shouldnt run more than $1200 or so. Shouldnt be more than $1500. I would be shocked if it was more than that.,for the month of October.
Greg- we are so on the same page on this one.
No regret- Absolutely you can ask land owners to use their property, that turns it into an asset for them. It helps to look for places that are already trying something, maybe they already have a paintball park, or a bar-b-Q stand, or a fruit stand. Like a haunted trail those are low impact businesses that dont really require alot from the property.
You may also look at area farms that might have the land to do something, they handle all concessions and such and you provide the haunt know how, labor and materials.
I would do everything in your power to work at haunts as much as posible before you open one. Experience is the best teacher and will save you thousands or dollars when the time comes.
Think of who will benefit from your business, is there an independant fast food place or car wash near by, perhaps they will pay to print your tickets and flyers to have their logo or a coupon on them.
I dont claim to be an expert, I learn something about haunts every time I go to a new show and almost every day Im at work. I hate the concept of oweing someone money. So to me, grass roots is the way to go.

[freak 'n' stein]

Hey No_Regret. I too am 20 with aspirations of starting my own haunt. I don't want to sound like I'm echoing everyone here, but it wasn't until I ordered Kelly's book (only a few weeks ago) that my wheels REALLY started turning. I've been doing a home show since I was 9. From there I graduated to helping a community park with a fundraiser haunt, the next year I worked an amusement park while still working with the community park. The year after that I joined the Jaycees and have been with them for the past two years. I can honestly say that with the Jaycees I've learned the most. I've gotten to come up with ideas, execute them, help run the show during the month of october and hold the same responsibilities that I would have on my own. I also visit as many haunts during the season as I can. If you haven't already, visit the haunt shows too! This past year I went to Transworld and got to meet other haunters. It's always good to pick haunter's brains. Talk to as many industry leaders as you can. When I lived in Ca, I called up a local haunt with about 25 questions and actually got the answers I needed. I also added Leonard Pickel on facebook and picked his brain. He gave me some EXCELLENT advice. Briefly met Leonard at the Transworld show too.

Like I said, my wheels have been turning lately but that is because I've gotten out there and done the leg work. Look for buildings you may be able to save up enough rent for (say 2-3 months worth of occupancy). I also mapped out my whole attraction in Google Sketchup after coming up with the room ideas. I've purchased the url already, gotten the logo drawn up, the name finalized, theme, characters/costumes as well as ideas for marketing the haunt.

Plan, Plan, Plan!! Kelly's book has helped me write the business plan and at any given moment, if I were to be approached by an investor, or vice versa, I feel adequately prepared. I could go on forever, but I digress. Best of luck to you. You clearly have the support of the forum. Oh, and watch as many haunt shows as you can. I have all the travel channel, history channel and diy channel Halloween specials DVR'd. They're always great for inspiration and keeping you motivated when you feel yourself getting discouraged!!!

[HauntedFarmGal]

hello everyone-long time reader first time poster

My family has been doing a front yard Halloween night haunt for 25 years. This is the first year of our Haunted Ghost Walk at our farm!

We do it 8 nights from 7-11 and our turnout is averaging 100 people per night for a 15 minute walk with a ticket price of $7.

Volunteers are 8th graders helping out to make $ for a fieldtrip to Washington D.C.


I think we will profit around 2k, now thinking about next year:

What is the best way to spend that 2k on the walk? Any advice on how to find some really nice props but at cut rate prices? Should I be thinking of making my own stuff-any good book or site out ther that can be reeeally instructive on the technical side of things.Drama and theatre and building buildings I am really good at but electrical/mechanical not so good at "-(

BTW:Everyone that exits walks back up to my mom (she is a ghost storyteller that tells stories while everyone waits for their walk to open) that the walk is really awesome. Of the averaging 100-probably 10-15 per night are repeats that go through again and then come back the next weekend.

here is my farm haunt's website www.autumnwindsfarm.com

please let me know what you think and thank you for any help

[No_Regret]

Hey guys, havent been on here much lately.

I am thinking about buying that entire combo from hauntbook.com, and trying to figure something out.

I really want to do my own haunted house...but unfortunately, making only about $10 an hour is making it very hard to save any kind of money up to open up even a small haunt.

Hope these books help me out, because this is something I would love doing for a career on down the line at some point.

[Mr. Haunt]

No Regret

There have been times that I have felt like my dreams are getting smaller. BUT don't let it get to you......KEEP THE BIG DREAM ALIVE!!!

I am 28 and have been haunting since 18 or 19 as a home haunter. I have never worked at a prohaunt, but might consider doing so.

I have read Kells book it's the best ,but most of all it's the people you meet that are special.......I'm talking about the people on this forum. They are those special people!!!

They would not be on here and reply to our posts if they did not care about others wanting to start into the business. WE ARE THE NEXT GENERATION OF HAUNTERS!!!

One day we will be those special people that other young or old haunters turn to for advice.

They all wish they could reach out and take us all under their wings, If we lived in the same town I would say lets hook up.

Brian

Mr. Haunt

[Greg Chrise]

There should be no limitation of age in your head. There should be no limitation for how much you can make per hour to buy what you need.

Even in hard times like now, employees make the same or less and there won't be any raises while those who provide a service even in parts of the country that don't even have capitalism yet, are making $25 to $35 per hour.

A real big part of the transformation you must imagine is being self employed rather than letting the man keep you down. Unless you have some proffessional carreer that is promising that might actually take precident over having a haunted house.

There are black guys selling silly ghetto clothes out of the trunk of their cars making $800 in a couple hours before the cops run them off because they have no liscence to sell in public. The pan handlers are making a prettu good living. Some homeless camps I see look like the entire camping section at Walmart.

It is tough when the rest of the world has been trained that you have to have a job. Telling you to do the same and be thankfull even if it is minimum wage. What do they really know?

Another thing you will need it the time and physical ability to make all of this stuff. The haunt world is full of do it yourselfers instead of just buying high dollar props like some other business plan that says don't start until you have saved 2 years of income while you run your business and have $375,000 in some kind of retail stuff and there is a 1 in 90 shot you will make it.

That is BS too. Somehow people that NEED to make money keep their businesses or services going with no money over and over from the ground up. They just go to their version of work instead of someone elses.

Being young should be an advantage. You will find old dudes with money that are too tired to do anything themselves. You will be able to build things and gain skilz and not kill yourself in the process. The real trick is telling when you have gotten old and then you have no choice but to do what the old dudes did.

The sooner you can make a bunch of crap out of cheap materials and stash it somewhere safe, collect junk from garage sales and plain old things that are being thrown away the better. The biggest trick is having the ability to cruise your area and see what is piled up here and there and imagine what other worldly could be done with those things.

Instead of an apartment you rent a shop cheap not intended to be a retail location where people come to shop. Build an underground community of like people that want to get their hands in plaster to know they can do something.

You are never going to find a self help book that describes or suggests you should f%^K up your credit for life to have what you want. Wonder why business owners look or other people with money? There is a whole economy in the world that has nothing to do with banks. I'm talking still on the legal side of the economy.

You really have to see things like a wanderer. This business here has this stuff left over. That business right over there can take this same stuff and make something out of it but, somehow they never got together because they are wasting their time filling out business plans, credit applications and talking to their loser banker who is also an employee of someone else. They don't know! Don't waste your time talking to real people.

Entire generations went with this imagined crap that if you have a job and do a good job you will make it and save for retirement as you go. Now we are hearing that isn't working out but for 40 years everyone busted their ass. Sorry. Every time I hear someone say they have to take a job with benefits because they have kids, I understand but feel so sorry for them like they just got sentenced to prison for years. Sorry.

Am I speaking English here?

[Greg Chrise]

I've talked to a lot of old haunters. What probably isn't in your business plan is how some of them have built 25 different haunts to get where they are. Some have other skilz that they do when not haunting. Some sell the props over and over every other year to help others and get recapitalized.

There is one wierd guy who doesn't move every year and builds everything out of 12 gage steel and 9 inch thick concrete.

There are all kinds of construction skills that could be crews of people that work the rest of the year in commercial or residential situations. There are props to be made and sold that might be a side business.

There are advertising skills that pay $100 per hour to other businesses that can be learned.

Gee if you made $25 an hour how many hours would you have to work per week to make it? If you made $100 per hour how many hours a week would you need to make it? What can you do that makes more money even part time. Plus the actual do it yourself process is in lue of paying a contractor $45 per hour to build you something like everyone else pays. Or in this economy they get the $25 per hour guy instead.

When you are self employed you save so much money because it isn't being withheld for taxes. That is easily a couple thousand available right there. Writting things off is not magic, you still have to earn the money to buy those things in the course of doing business but, not having to pay taxes directly adds up to lots of money per year. More money than you can build walls every year. This isn't some subversive manifesto, it is what your employer doesn't want you to realize how profits are made or you would do the same thing right now in some cases.

If you have a pile of junk fashioned into something it it pretty easy to find someone that was just thinking about having a haunted attraction. Guess what, you have one! Or certainly the plans to put one together all well under your belt.

When times are hard there are a number of landlords that will do anything to make a mortgage payment and rent out a big space. It isn't going to go away either as technology has physically changed how much space is needed for everything. Work spaces have been made smaller, retail no longer needs as much space as a percentage is on line or ordered in over night.

Historically all the old dudes and the greatest haunted events started in a down economy for two reasons. One they needed a better job and Two industries and commercial spaces were left to provide the junk needed to be recycled into something else. It was not because everyone figured out how to channel the fat off the land.

When you watch things go down the street you might laugh at the dirty people with a 30 year old truck with dents and the paint not really there with a trailer full of bicycles and refrigerators. Guess what this January the price of scrap metal was up and these dudes were making $600 and $700 per day. Laugh all you want. How much did you make after taxes? $60

How many haunt walls is that? You begin to see tearing down buildings for materials and contents, you begin to see auctions where you can buy the equivelant of 3 haunted houses for $10,000 right now. It is all an underground not widely publicized. Some 2 year college student girl writting how to save money articles for AOL isn't going to figure this one out. After her student loan comes due she might end up in a trailer park with a guy that collects old refrigerators.

And you might have to travel to get what you need so become an ace mechanic. Most of the books published are by people with PHDs that are continueing their study and making an income with a book. They usually come from a perspective of living at some level of privelage that isn't really applicable to the real world. There are tons of books and information on the internet about having a business but, real research into these people generally proves they HAD a business that epically failed and that is who you are supposed to listen to? They are no longer willing to stoop to the level of really working but suggest you can? WTF?

The people really doing it don't have the time to hang out and write a book about made up rules.
Thank you good night, I'll be here every Tuesday.

[Greg Chrise]

Hey Allen

How much of Screams tears down every year or do they cover it up?