Lets Get this Straight RIGHT NOW ... How to Pay Vendors at the Show

[drfrightner]

Okay lets NOT hear any crying after the fact lets hammer this one out right here... right now. I know Shane will have a lot to say on this subject.

How do you feel is the best way to pay vendors at the show? If you order something under the following conditions how should you pay?

1) First time vendor: Never seen or heard of them before?

2) Not brand new Vendor but new enough? Seen them around but never ordered from them before. How do you want to pay?

3) Tried and true vendor ordered in the past never a problem?

4) Well known vendor ordered before had a hit and miss relationship how do you pay???


What do you think?

Larry

[drfrightner]

I have a couple thoughts...

1) Credit Cards and DO NOT give any type of deposit without an invoice in writting that states WHEN your order will start production and WHEN your order will be completed and shipped. You need a record for your credit card company in case they fall through on you... you need something in their hand writting that says...

CREDIT CARD WILL BE CHARGED 50% deposit on April 21 and order will be completed on May 21. If you do NOT have this it will make it harder for you to get your money back later. PUT EVERYTHING IN WRITTING!

2) Tell the vendor flat out you can't pay a deposit until they are ready to produce your order because you can't put a CC deposit down and not get something for 90 days later then ask your CC company to refund... that is too long. Ask the vendor to bill your CC when they are ready for production and can tell you within X amount of days you will get your product. Then have them WRITE THAT DOWN ... don't care if its an email or on their company letter head.

3) Don't pay cash for ANYTHING! Period unless you are picking it up lock stock and barrel. See if a vendor will take cash 110% if you pick it up from their door step when the order is DONE! Give a CC for a small percentage to start like 10% so they know you are not making a bogus order.

4) CHECKS... if you don't trust the vendor don't write a check until you know they are ready to ship. I do NOT advice any checks unless you are paying net 30 with a vendor you don't trust. CREDIT cards are the way to go... once your check is cashed there is nothing you can do.

5) there are other great ways to pay talk to your bank you can set up things thorugh you bank that allow the vendor to draw money when products have been accomplished so its safe for you and the vendor... line or credits. Ask about them for LARGE orders... the bank releases funds upon delivery. This is safe for you and the vendor.

Look let me put it this way... me personally I order things from vendors and lots of times I don't pay all the money until I get what I purchased. The vendors trust me, and I trust them... sometimes I pay all up front because I'm getting a discount but I trust the vendor and again they trust me. I only order stuff from vendors who advertise in our magazine because I know I can trust those vendors... I personally don't order anything from vendors who aren't in our magazine and won't. For me its also an appreciation for supporting our mission to help the haunt industry so for that I'm thankful. But other than that its also about me knowing those are serious vendors.

Some things I would look at ...

How long have they been a vendor. Do they go to the tradeshows year in and year out. What does their website look like... something made in 10 minutes or something they have invested a lot of time and money into... if their websites look horrid I bet their products and service all match. Just a thought.

Bottom line is simple... you should think careful about all of this before you go to the show because I would really like to think no haunts and well on the flip NO vendors are getting burned...

Larry

[Raycliff Manor]

I think you nailed it Larry and I think this would be a great "sticky" thread!

Kel

[spookhaven]

I think this is a good subject for customers and vendors. Two of my first questions will be are you willing to put this in writing? What are your terms and conditions for payment and then delivery? I think a few vendors have screwed it up for others, but we needs to keep in mind most companys and industries are going to 90 day pay and most want 50% or more down to start a job. I think it is all about reputation and building trusting relationships as Larry pointed out.

Our family business just got nailed over 20K on a job from a school district no less. Now we have to file a lawsuit to get paid. This hurt for other jobs and us personally having to pay employees and cost incurred of over 14K. So I really have a repect for vendor wanting money to cover cost up front and profit paid in the end. I don't think I will be paying any more than 50% (only to vendors I have ordered from and got delivery) in the past. Problem is a new company needs that money to work off of to continue (in most cases) to survive.

[graystone]

Awsome thread!

Ok here is the Shane's Rule's Of Buying! I AM GOING TO FLAT OUT SAY THIS! IF AS A VENDOR YOU WANT 50% DOWN THAT'S FINE AND I WILL TRUST YOU ( IF WE HAVE DONE BUSINESS BEFORE) BUT YOU WILL NOT GET ANOTHER DIME UNTIL THE ITEMS ARE DELIVERED, IN MY HAND, AND IS IN WORKING ORDER! IF you can not do that then WE CAN NOT DO BUSINESS. I have said this 10 million times this is a 2 way street. I myself do checks and you had not better cash it till my items are in production. Also If I buy a prop and it's gray, brown, black or whatever thats what I want to recieve because I am buying what I see you better not rush it and send me something pink! If you are a vendor and I have never had a problem then I have no problems continuing on your terms. I want a date within 2 weeks of the agreed delivery time and if you fail to produce I want a refund and I want it fast! This will weed out the bull shit and weed it out fast. This will tell me that they are a stable company and can afford to treat me as I am them.

We as buyers are taking all the risk and losing hundreds of thousands of dollars each year because of bad vendors. It's time to put on the breaks and be shown the same trust as we show the vendors. I have several vendors who some I pay a deposit and then pay the remainder after I get it and there are some who takes my orders and just bills me and that I really like this showes they are in business to stay. Again as long as its equal on the seller and buyer I am game and think this is the way to to. So to recap here is what I suggest.

1. 50% down and the remainder after delivery of items
2. If paying by check 50% down when production is ready to begain or be sure they don't cash your check till it's time to work on your order.
3. Ask for a full refund if your items are not as they are shown at the show. If they can take the time to paint something that makes your jaw drop then they can take that same amount of time on the item you bought after all thats part of the reason you ordered it.
4. Make it clear that this buyer seller relationship is just that an equal trust of both parties.
5. If you can't understand or want agree to this then move on as WE WILL NOT BE DOING BUSINESS!

Shane and it's do I hear an Amen? Shane

[Soul Reaper]

Amen Shane.

I think you and Larry hit the nail squarly on the head.

Treat us with respect and we will do the same.

As the o'l saying goes money talks and bs walks.

[RJ Productions]

I understand the apprehension in dealing with certain vendors but is anyone really reading through these demands???

Tell me ANY other situation where you can transact business in this manner??

Take an item on eBay, where you have NO idea who the seller is... would they take 50% down and the remainder AFTER you received and looked over the merchandise???? I don't think so. Can I ask Walmart to let me out of the store with 50% down and I'll send them the rest after I get home and see if I really like it?? Will Amazon send a book or DVD, I'll make sure I like it then send them the rest of the money???

There is a lot of babble about haunters getting screwed and I acknowledge it has happen... but what about VENDORS that have gotten screwed???

I know of vendors where the haunter paid by credit card, took possession of the props then called up the credit company and stated they never got the merchandise and had the charges reversed!! Even though the vendor shows proof of delivery, it still gets denied!!! The haunter was even stupid enough to post pictures on his web site featuring the props!!!! So who's the bad guy here??

While you may not think you know a vendor, it is obvious the vendor doesn't know you. So how do they trust that YOU will make good on the arrangement??

I agree some safeguards do have to be in place. 50% down to start the order is reasonable, but no vendor is going to ship until the remainder is paid up front...would you??

It was stated we as buyers are taking all the risks??? Really??? I buy one prop I am taking a risk on ONE item. If that vendor sell TEN he is taking TEN times the risk!!! It's simple math!

I am certainly not stating all vendors are good and all haunters are bad, heck I'm a haunter, but I'm smart enough to realize it's not a black and white situation. We need a happy medium to protect BOTH sides. Like an eBay transaction, vendors need to know that if you screw a haunter then through avenues like Hauntworld, we will ALL know about it and you can kiss any future orders goodbye. Good vendors will be rewarded with our orders, bad vendors will sit idle with NO orders.

[graystone]

RJ

You come off as a vendor are you? I guess I have not paid enough attention if so what do you sell? Here is a few things...

1. Your comparison to ebay is not really a good one and here is why. Most items sold on ebay is not thousands of dollars. Now grant you they have them but most items people are selling and buying are low dollar items. Yeah you got cars, houses ect but get real whos gonna buy those items by only seeing a picture. Also I might add ebay has a system that if you screw over the buyer they remove YOUR ass from ebay yeah you have to have 3 negatives in a row but that red flags ebay to hey this person is a crook. I bought a video once and right before I got ready to pay for it I was notified by ebay not to pay for it as they have been removed for failing to deliver. So even ebay has things in place to protect the buyer.

2. Now lets talk about your Wal-Mart example hell no you want walk out of Wal-Mart without paying but here is a surprise for you if you did not know this. When you go in there to buy YOU TAKE THE STUFF RIGHT THEN AND THERE! THERE IS NO RISK!!!!! You see it, like it, buy it, take it and take it home. AGAIN NO RISK FOR THE BUYER!

3. I 100% disagree when you say NO VENDOR is going to ship without full payment. Posion Props takes a deposit, sends the items and you pay the rest after delivery, Unit70 has did this from day one. I can even go to say last year I placed my order last year it was $13,000.00 and they did not even ask for one dollar. I got my props and mailed them a check after it was in place and running, Distortions also does that there are others trust me they been around for years. I am 100% sure I am not the only one they do this way to. Why because we have earned each others trust. No they would not do it with a new client ( I don't think however they might) you have to build a relationship. You might ask Shane how do you do that. I will flat out tell you 50% DOWN AND THE REMAINDER AFTER DELIVERY! This is why theses companies keep growing. Hell look at Unit70 they so busy they don't have time to go to the show. WHY? because they are a good company that respects the buyers just as the buyers respect them.

I am sure they have got screwed to at some point but they still show the industry they are here to stay and will take a hit just as a buyer does on ocassion. REMEMBER 2 WAY STREET! RJ my company builds custom Christmas decorations for malls and shopping centers all over the U.S and I have never took a deposit as a matter of fact orders is done in March, April, May most of this is shipped by Aug 1st and I usually don't see a penny till December. I am a smart enough business person to use my own capitol to run my business not my clients money to keep me a float. If you need money up front to produce a product then you better gamble with your own money not your clients it's not their BUSINESS remember it's YOURS. I used to attend IAAPA years ago I built my business and never needed a reson to go back just as UNIT70 they DON'T NEED TO ATTEND ANY SHOWS, THEY KNOW THE SECRET TO SUCCESS, Trust your clients just as they do you, share the gamble 50/50 just as they do, make a great product just as they do and BOOM YOUR SUCCESSFUL! I will say this too in my bus company I don't get paid up front neither does my driver. My coaches rent for $1000.00 per day, the driver gets $400.00 per day, then he has a company card that belongs to my company that he uses to buy gas which is passed on to the client. Now lets say the client rents a coach for 1 week thats $7000.00, $2800.00 for a week for the driver, to fill up right now is right at $1000.00 and lets say he fills up twice in that week thats $2000.00 thats $11,800.00 the client gets billed and I get paid 30 days later. The driver gets paid at the end of the tour, the gas is paid at time of purchase, and I get it all back 30 days later! MY POINT? If I can do this SO CAN A HAUNT INDUSTRY VENDOR!!! or atleast meet half way. DID I MENTION 50/50 OR A TWO WAY STREET?

I have made my points. The seller has every right not to agree with my requirments just as I have every right to find a company that will. It's not rocket science folks! Shane and it's I can say these things because I am a vendo too! Shane

Oh one thing on Happy Medium here is the secret to it.

I trust you with 50% down and pray you don't haul ass with my money. You in return make it, send it to me and you pray I pay you just as I prayed you would send it. 50/50 gamble baby! It will work, it does work, it's what seperates the crooks from the upstanding companies!

[wipp]

this is a little diff than walking out a walmart only paying 50%. for one thing if you dont like that product you can return it,also you have looked at the product you baught in the store. name one other product that you pay for and not recieve for 9 mths in the real world. the world dosnt work like that. now go into walmart and pay for a product and they say we will ship it to you in 9 mths, would you buy it? then walmart comes back with well i didnt ship it cause im going through some really hard times right now,my dog just died and my kids got sick and ........

[Jim Warfield]

"My Dog got sick, died...."

A news item stated that when a Wal-Mart manager gets sick and dies.. Wal-Mart had He/She insured and THEY collect on the death policy, not the employees family! Wal-Mart keeps the money.
Wal-Mart stock is "up" today.
I wonder how many managers died?

[graystone]

Wipp

exactly! Shane and it's that is as simple as you can put it! Shane

this is a little diff than walking out a walmart only paying 50%. For one thing if you dont like that product you can return it,also you have looked at the product you baught in the store. Name one other product that you pay for and not recieve for 9 mths in the real world. The world dosnt work like that. Now go into walmart and pay for a product and they say we will ship it to you in 9 mths, would you buy it? Then walmart comes back with well i didnt ship it cause im going through some really hard times right now,my dog just died and my kids got sick and ........

[Slain]

Take it from me (or learn the hard way) and try not to get bent over from a lot of these vendors..
Make sure you read the fine print when signing and invoice/contract.
Last year at Transworld some of these guys want 50% deposit down and it is a NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT!!!! Yes.. That means if you get the product or not they keep your money. This happened to me and it can happen to you.

[Slain]

Take it from me (or learn the hard way) and try not to get bent over from a lot of these vendors..
Make sure you read the fine print when signing and invoice/contract.
Last year at Transworld some of these guys want 50% deposit down and it is a NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT!!!! Yes.. That means if you get the product or not they keep your money. This happened to me and it can happen to you.

Also please don't compare any of the haunt stuff with WAL-MART. You may pay for it in full but you can take a used tooth brush back to Wal-Mart and get your money back..

How do you get money back after paying 50% down and they don't deliver and the company is 2000 miles away?

Bottom line make sure that you can trust the people/company your buying from. If you don't have that step away from the booth. Ask another veteran haunter that has bought from this certain vendor, they will let you know whether or not they are good or bad.

[graystone]

Maybe

Also please don't compare any of the haunt stuff with WAL-MART. You may pay for it in full but you can take a used tooth brush back to Wal-Mart and get your money back..

How do you get money back after paying 50% down and they don't deliver and the company is 2000 miles away?

Bottom line make sure that you can trust the people/company your buying from. If you don't have that step away from the booth. As another veteran haunter that has bought from this vendor, they will let you know whether or not they are good or bad.

Some of these companies that want full payment up front will be willing to write in the contract if it's not as promised and shown then a full refund with shipping back at the vendors expense? Shane and it's this will seperate the men from the boys! Shane

[Matt Marich]

Yarp

yah, Don'r compare quality American Made Haunted House Props with Crappy Walmart China Junk!!