Dream Scape Studios

[Front Yard Fright]

I've been waiting to chime in... but here it goes.

In all honesty, I was wondering why Dream Scape studios was selling Gore Galore costumes at their booth at Transworld... It was only until later did I notice one of the former Gore Galore employees weard a Dream Scape Studios shirt did I realize that they may have split.

With that said, I was curious as to why Dream Scape Studios would feel the need to come out with their own line... It's nothing new by any means. Gore Galore has had the large puppet market pretty much cornered for several years now, so why reinvent the wheel?

I understand the inner workings of the puppet may be different but still, they look very similar (To me) so I found it kind of silly they would come out with such a product so late in the game.

Either way, both businesses will go on... Regardless of this never-ending thread.
.

One thing I thought was MORE of a rip off was the Scarefactory guard dog... Seeing as Dark Raven Designs came out with the exact same thing years ago! But I guess that's for another thread...
.

[Barry]

There are no new ideas

One of the best sayings I have ever heard came from Leonard Pickel: "There are no new ideas. Only 2 or more old ideas put together in a different way"

[Grimley]

They felt the need to come out with their own line because they could and they could make money doing it better. Do people really only want one company making masks, one making props, one making costumes. This is without a doubt one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard on this forum. I can't even fathom why someone would say oh never mind I give up. I hope next year you guys go to the show and there are 5 companies making the damn costumes so you guys can go around pointing your fingers and saying they were ripped off. I think what really says it all is I never once saw anyone from Gore Galore come on here and agree that they were ripped off. Why? Because the idea was not original to them. No patent protection. Nothing.

[Jim Warfield]

Nobody has ever ripped off my Transworld Stuff

Although my products are very hard to copy (the way it should be)
What? You've never seen my "Ravens Grin Total Invisibility Camoflauge Systems"!?
There You Go!
People just can't see ripping me off, because they can't see it!
I do believe originality has many obvious and subtle merits.
You will be stimulating customers and potential customers by them discovering something "NEW!"
Just this factor does guarantee a large amount of good, free, mention and even obsession from many impressed people, and what is "That" worth? Could be an absolute fortune in money and longevity as a business.
Why do some haunts fail to impress their customers? I would say the reason is the "Been There, Seen it Before" sort of feeling from customers. I came to this by asking many of my happy, exiting customers about other haunts they had seen or were impressed by. The customer is the expert whether that are 15 or 50.

[Gore Galore]

The Real Questions

I was trying to just leave this alone. And take the high ground. I don't have time for this kind of negativity. I don't need to defend myself.

I am going to make one statement about ALL of this. And hope to not say anything else about it. Slinging mud is not what I like to do.

First off let me state that I am Never afraid of competition. It makes us better and stronger. This is our 13th year, and proud of the fact. And that is a serious thank you to all of you, our customers, our friends. You not only support our company but you support me as a person. I didn't really know this until you demonstrated that to me at the show. And you have no clue how much it means to me. So thank you.

History was also brought up so let touch on this. We may have been in business 13 years, but I have been designing and building props and puppets for haunts for close to 3 decades.
I built a 7' skeleton marionette with an alligator skull for a local haunt www.zombiefarm.net back in 1989. It was able to leap out at customers and snap at them. And it is still in operation to this day. The next year a friend and I designed and built a 15' naked zombie backpack puppet dubbed "Long Lankin" for this same attraction, and operated it on a cable system suspended from 2 trees. It was the start of everything. Since then we designed 3 more. Cranky (15' robot), Giggles (15' Clown), and a 15' Alien. These are what started us on the path of Giant Costumes. They were fun and made a huge impact but too big for most any attraction to use. So then we started downsizing and that is what led to the current size costumes we sell now, and have been for years. So, in regards to comparing and saying we took the idea from Ex-mortis, you would be wrong.
We exhibited with Long Lankin one year after Ex-mortis started exhibiting, but we had been doing Giant Puppets for years. At that point Long Langin was already 5 years old. Just a toddler I know.
Just so you know, Wayne Toth from Ex-mortis is an inspiration and always will be. He is not the reason I started building puppets and costumes but to be honest he is the reason we started exhibiting at Transworld. The first time I saw his booth I was star struck. And knew at that moment we were going to exhibit at the Transworld show the next year. And we did. So thank you Wayne.


Now back to the point.

THIS IS NOT A QUESTION OF CAN THEY MAKE A GIANT COSTUME ALMOST JUST LIKE OURS, IT IS A QUESTION OF SHOULD THEY?
It is a question of ethics.
Of course they can copy the costumes. There are no patents because when I met with attorneys years ago they asked, "can someone take a picture of it and then copy it?" Yes, of course. "Then you can't keep anyone from copying it". Applying for a patent was a waste of time.
But honestly, that is not the point. The point is: 2 employees were fired from our company for very good reasons and they went to another company, and that company started making giant costumes that look and function alot like ours. When prior to this, all this company made were zombies, animations, and some weapons. So this in itself shows me I did the right thing to fire them.


But here are the real questions:

1. Should they have reinvented the wheel or come out with something innovative and original and make a place for themselves, or just try to take a small piece of a small pie that already exists.
2. Should they have constantly compared their costumes to ours on every sales pitch trying to talk down our work. They couldn't just talk up their work rather than trying to bash ours. I was told this by every customer that came to our booth.
3. Should they have told customers, "if there is anything in the Gore Galore booth you like, we can make it for you" I have a written statement from a customer who this was told to.
4. Should they have worn their old Gore Galore uniforms to try to confuse customers and then explain they were fired and how they were the creative team behind Gore Galore despite the fact we have been in business 10 years before either one of them worked here.

I am sad to say that this is ALL true.

You have to ask yourself these questions and then determine if this is a company you want to do business with.
You as a buyer will determine whether this company is successful, as you have already determined that ours has been.
You the buyer, you the discriminating buyer always determine the success of every business.
What shall be your decision?

[xtremecreator]

Total Class Kevin. Well said.............
John

[stafford]

Well Said

Kevin, well said. It is not a question of can you copy someone, but should you.

I believe that your attitude towards this is most likely shared by the customers that matter. Customers are much smarter than we may give them credit for, and they will usually expose those who are making a lower priced knock off.

I don't know enough to know if that's what they are doing. If Dreamscape is bringing what they believe is an alternative with better options/quality, truly a better/different product, then time will tell their fate. I have nothing against them, never bought any of their product. My skepticism is that they claim to be making a superior product, but they are charging less for it? If you believe it's superior then why not charge an equal or higher price?

Chris

[graystone]

Exactly

Kevin that's exactly the point I was trying to make. For some reason DS either did not want to accept it or just plain did not see it because they were to busy going at it with me! Anyway you said what I was trying to say. I dunno maybe sometimes I come off strong or just can't make my point and when your typing it can get hard to understand I suppose. What they showed me and many more I have talked to is....

1. Can they copy? Yes
Should they copy? NO!

2. By focusing on dising you and your products did they sell a few costumes? Yes ( I am sure a few)
Will they sell more in the future now that this is out? NO ( my opinion only)

3. Are they a good people? Yes ( I have no reason to think they are scum)
But do they have good ethics? NO ( It was in bad taste and to allow them to wear GG shirts while they focused on dising you and your company)

4. Should they focus on making something origional? Yes
If they dont will they continue to sell? NO ( my opinion)

Bottom line I would love to see them change their tactics and work ethics and get away from this and move on to making something we have not seen before! Shane and again it's my opinion! Shane

[Fear At Its Best]

Thoughts and Comments....

Those that choose can cry about ethics all they want, there are so many “rip offs” in this industry that go unspoken so why all the drama and “mud slinging” on this instance, truth be told Kevin and the former employees both have it in their head that the two are going to ruin each other with all the “he said she said” negativity! I have spoken to both sides and each one had choice words to say about one another, and rest assured that I have expressed my opinions to both sides as there is plenty of room in this industry for everyone and the drama has to stop. Both sides are responsible for plenty of name calling and instigating, I don’t care what is said by outsiders as they have no idea of the saga besides what was told to them in a biased manner. As owner I have had the opportunity of watching this thread and have read all the finger pointing and I have to say it is childish and pointless, Dream Scape Studios will not be at the demise because you choose to point out that we have a “rip off”! We too have an established list of customers who know our quality and commitment and upon occasion have been asked to recreate several items that they feel could have been done with better quality and delivery. With that said I have heard upon several occasions how “uncomfortable” Gore Galore costumes are to wear, I have had the opportunity to wear one and I have to say they are a bit bothersome to sport about for any given amount of time. When Jake and Ben were fired they said to me that they wanted to continue doing costumes, with that said I thought about it and decided that they would have to be done better, lighter and with animatronic movements accomplished with more up to date methods. In doing so I wanted to bring these to the market at or below the competition price. It’s called Free Enterprise gentlemen get used to it and quit crying because the very product you’re making today can be copied and improved at any point in time. Point is this there is competition and it’s not liked, yes ours are similar as is the artists however if you look inside you will see there has been more thought put into ours with more adjustments and versatility along with animatronic controls. I am sure there are several loyal customers on both sides that will say and “provide written documents” that each company has said this and said that but bottom line is who cares, go on about your business and quit worrying about one another. If “you love competition” then bring it we would love to see some of your “new original” ideas, how many times have I read in this thread where someone has said in a similar way “there are no new ideas, only 2 or more ideas put together in a different way” perhaps my ghost writer article in 13th hour says the same thing. This goes on in every industry and as an automotive engineer for one of the biggest automotive companies in the business where “innovation” is stressed each and every day, to take something and make it better to either improve current product or productivity. Let it be known that Dream Scape Studios has spoken and no harmful intent is our sole purpose to produce a better product that will lead others to be more innovative themselves!

Thank you for your time,
Brian Brown
www.dream-scapestudios.com

[graystone]

Ok Guys!

Time to throw up the white flag! I have been told that there is a company coming out with the same thing DS is going or was doing with their bodies. I told them I thought that it was just as much in bad taste as what they did. HOWEVER that being said I SAY GO FOR IT! My opinion is they will be some "crying" on that side of the fence. It's clear he has no remorse. I myself think whats worse is how they wore GG shirts in their booth. This made a statement there and here so did the statement above this one.

Kevin you have NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! Even though there is another company coming out with some Dead Buddies I think you should too! I mean after all there is so much room in this Industry for people to "improve"! I will say this as a buyer last year Dream Scapes donated a prop for the party and I will say Thank You again. I myself fully intented to purchase a few things from them at the show this year to help support them just as they did at the 2010 Insane Shane Party, even though there is not alot of there product I can use in my haunt and just as I have never did alot with Kevins costumes as they really don't fit either. With that said and after what was pointed out to me by many at the show I said NOPE I WILL NOT SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THIS and spent even more with GG this year. Bottom line and I have said it ten thousand times does it happen? YES every year! But the way they just punched a hard worker and his company in the face was what gave me and many of the others a bad taste. Had they did their own thing, wore their own shirts, and kept shut then I would not be so vocal about this issue and it would have been a different turn out.

Everyone knows I will stand up for buyers and here just goes to show you that I will stand up for a Vendor when the cards are down. It just comes down to bad taste, low blows, cheap shots, and classless work ethics!

Shane and it's let the games begain! Shane

[Fear At Its Best]

Go For It!

There were no Gore Galore shirts worn at our booth I can assure you, Jake and Ben both had Gore Galore Jackets that were their own personal effects that they wore into the show as it is that time of year to wear jackets. In no way was gore galore represented at our booth, all you want to do is stir up rumors and drama to get the word out that we have a knock off, rip off great we all get it and know! You think it has hurt us, think again we still have sales and orders despite your efforts of finger pointing and crying! If I recall wasn’t it you Shane who stood there at our booth with hands out for this year’s donation as well, wasn’t it you that commented on our booth and products? I personally spoke with you and never heard one word of what you speak/write about now, you aren’t fake are you? You aren’t out just doing Kevin’s dirty work to try and ruin us because he is crying to you that we ripped him off just as he has done to other vendors… Grow up and quit crying, copy what you want of ours it don’t matter there will be no crying from our side of the fence. You see that’s where your wrong in thinking you know it all; only thing you know is how to run your mouth as this forum shows just that… and its Shane get a life!

[drfrightner]

Kevin,

Here is what I think about each one of your points...

But here are the real questions:

1. Should they have reinvented the wheel or come out with something innovative and original and make a place for themselves, or just try to take a small piece of a small pie that already exists.

IF THEY WANT TO MAKE GIANT COSTUMES THEY CAN. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MAKES NO SENSE HERE BECAUSE THAT IS LIKE SAYING GM MAKES CARS SO WHY DOES FORD... OR SCAREFACTORY MAKES ANIMATIONS SO WHY DID UNIT 70 START SELLING THEM WHEN THEY STARTED UP. SO DONT' AGREE WITH YOU HERE AT ALL. YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY COMPANY THAT HAS HAD SOMETHING SOMEONE DID A SPIN OFF ON ... I COULD TYPE A 1000 PAGE ARTICLE ON ALL THE SPIN OFF PRODUCTS SO YOU CAN'T TAKE IT HARD THAT SOMEONE DID IT TO YOU... JUST LIKE YOU ALREADY MENTIONED EXMORTIS CAME BEFORE YOU.

2. Should they have constantly compared their costumes to ours on every sales pitch trying to talk down our work. They couldn't just talk up their work rather than trying to bash ours. I was told this by every customer that came to our booth.

NO THEY SHOULDN'T HOWEVER ANYTHING YOU HEARD ABOUT IT WOULD BE SPECULATION BECAUSE I'VE FOUND PEOPEL IN THIS INDUSTRY LIKE STIRRING UP CRAP... UNLESS YOU HEARD IT OUT OF OF THEIR MOUTH I WOULDN'T BELIEVE HALF OF WHAT YOU HEARD. SECONDLY THIS ISN'T SOMETHING NEW EVERY SALES PERSON IN EVERY INDUSTRY PLAYS UP THEIR PRODUCTS AND DOWNPLAYS THE COMPETITION DOES IT MAKE IT RIGHT MAYBE NOT BUT EVERYONE DOES IT... SO THIS IS NOTHING NEW REALLY.


3. Should they have told customers, "if there is anything in the Gore Galore booth you like, we can make it for you" I have a written statement from a customer who this was told to.

AGAIN NO ITS NOT RIGHT NOT AT ALL... HOWEVER AND AGAIN SEE ABOVE. I'VE HAD A MILLION PEOPLE COME TO ME AND SAY 'THIS PERSON SAID YOU SAID THIS OR THAT... AND I CALL BULL'. I'LL TELL THEM FLAT OUT GET THAT PERSON ON THE PHONE THREE WAY AND WE'LL SETTLE THIS RIGHT NOW. ODDLY ENOUGH THE PERSON WHO SPREADS THE RUMORS WON'T JOIN A THREE WAY CALL... BUT AGAIN DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU ARE TOLD. ITS ONE PERSONS WORDS AGAINST ANOTHER AND YOU CAN'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING... HOWEVER IF THEY SAID THAT THIS IS JUST FLAT OUT WRONG. THEY SHOULD STICK TO WHAT THEY DO OR IDEA'S THEY COME UP WITH AND NOT 100% KNOCK OFF YOUR STUFF.

4. Should they have worn their old Gore Galore uniforms to try to confuse customers and then explain they were fired and how they were the creative team behind Gore Galore despite the fact we have been in business 10 years before either one of them worked here.

AGAIN THAT IS WRONG AS WELL... I DIDN'T SEE THAT DO YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF THEM AT THE SHOW WEARING THEM? THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE... BECAUSE THAT IS JUST WRONG AND HAD THEY DONE THIS YOU SHOULD HAVE WALKED OVER THERE AND DEMANDED THEY TAKE THEM OFF AND IF THEY REFUSE I WOULD HAVE GONE OVER TO JEN AND TOLD HER... I KNOW SHE WOULD HAVE MADE THEM REMOVE THEM.

IF THEY DID THIS THAT IS WRONG... YOU SHOULD UPLOAD A PICTURE OF THEM WEARING YOUR LOGO SHIRTS IN THEIR BOOTH.

BUT IN THE END ITS LIKE THIS... WE'VE HAD SEVERAL WORKERS WORK FOR US AND WE'VE HIRED AND FIRED DOZENS OF PEOPLE AND SOME START THEIR OWN BUSINESS TO COMPETE WITH YOU AFTER YOU LET THEM GO, AND YOU KNOW WHAT AS YOU CAN SEE WITH US WE ARE STILL THE BEST AT WHAT WE DO DESPITE WHO WE LET GO OR PICK UP... OUR BUSINESS IS US NOT ONE GUY. YOUR BUSINESS IS YOU, AND YOU WILL CONTINUE TO LEAD THE WAY NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO OR DON'T DO... JUST KEEP ON TRUCKING BECAUSE YOUR STUFF LOOKS WAY BETTER.

HOWEVER IN MY VIEW WHAT THEY DID MIGHT HAVE BEEN DONE IN SPITE OF YOU, BUT THAT GOES WITH THE TERRORITORY AND IN THE END YOU JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU DO A BETTER JOB AND YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

LARRY

[Fear At Its Best]

Point Taken

Larry we heard the same things from our customers that they said the same things about us, I don’t care because I agree with you people “like stirring up crap” and will tell you what you want to hear in hopes of gaining some type of reward be it a discount or impression of a loyal customer. I know for a fact that several people tried on our armature/frame that we had on display as we did not want any confusion that ours were the same by being uncomfortable and heavy in no way, only to say they would be back after checking out GG. Upon return said ours was deffintely lighter and more controllable but they liked GG selection of characters and to this we said, give us time we will have more to offer and we do custom work as well! We didn’t have to point out that Jake and Ben were from Gore Galore as people know them very distinctively from their looks, there wasn’t one employee that wore a gore galore shirt as we have our own. I think they speak of the black jacket that belonged to Jake and Ben’s personal effects that they wore in and out of the show. At our booth no way not happening, a lot of what is being said is out right twisted parts of the truth and childish… Do ours look the same yes I will agree as the same artist sculpted each of ours as he did GG costumes, if they willl notice we didn’t do monsters or creatures ours are all more personal beings that we can all associate with and its what’s on the inside that everyone is failing to address. Ours is made of light weight material with several adjustments making it more ergonomic for the person wearing it, our head movement is animatronic via a hand held remote joystick and EFX TEK board giving the operator more control of the head and mouth movement without jamming their head into a uncomfortable helmet. You don’t hear anyone speaking of our own spin on the topic. Heck at this point I may have to put my own spin on the operator activated pop out goat head, hmmmmm there’s an idea! After all I have seen that done before as well right….

[Allen H]

Larry,
your caps lock button is stuck.

[graystone]

Dream

One thing to correct you on! I DID NOT ONCE COME TO YOUR BOOTH AND ASK FOR A DONATION ALL OF THAT IS DONE WAY BEFORE THE SHOW! You can even see that on the thread that the dead line was 2 weeks before the show. GO GET IT STRAIGHT. I was NEVER at your booth you know thats a lie and a cheap way to attract business. It's so clear what your all about now you want to just plain LIE! As a matter of fact I picked up little at the show as I had a team doing that. Now someone on that team may have confused you with another vendor as I did not ask them if that happened but it's possible don't know I WAS NOT THERE. BUT DO NOT SAY I DID SOMETHING I DID NOT DO. Shane will put you in your place fast when you lie on him. I don't use this site as a front I have no problems correcting issues in front of people ask 13th Hour Magazine and the big crowed that whitnessed me telling him how sorry he was for cheating people out of product! I am one who will tell you to your face just as I will here.

I will also tell you this and this just goes to show you the type of person Kevin is. He has not said anything to me. NOT ONE WORD! I get my facts from others. Here is a secret for you and looks like your going to learn the hard way! US BUYERS TALK! I talk to many people and many people come to me when they see something tackey! Why do they do this? it's because they know I am a person who believes in treating his brothers and sisters in this Industry with respect, and I have built a company on great work ethics, something you have not done and should learn to do. I have owned my own company for 20 years. What started out as a costume store moved on to making commerical Christmas Decor for malls all over the U.S.(I might add not one time in my career have I looked at something and said oh I can do that better and cheaper! I built my company on my own thoughts, creations and talents I don't need to steal something that someone else has done! Hell where is the creativity in that? Thats just damn lazy! ORIGIONAL BABY!!!! THAT'S WHERE IT'S AT) to my owN Santa and Easter sets in Malls in the South, to Entertainer Coaches, and Haunted Houses so you see I am doing something right and if not then after 20 years I would not be doing what I do so when I say something I say it out of experiance! Am I perfect NOPE!

One last thing shirt, pants, jackets it's still in bad taste and who would want to wear an advertizement for a place that fired you unless you had a motive! I may be from the South but I did not fall off a turnip truck! I know what they were doing, you knew what they were doing, and so did the other buyers that's vets in this Industry! I am through I have made my point and you have made yours!

Shane and it's better get busy on thoes orders! Shane