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  • Indiana Fire Marshal holds off enforcing sprinkers....

    Great news for us. We had been preparing for applying for a variance from the Indiana Building Commission and this morning recieved a fourth letter from the Department of Homeland Security State Fire Marshal's office. The first two had announced fire alarms and fire sprinklers mandatory for Indiana huanted houses for 2011. The third last week was blurry in that there would be grandfathering in based on fire codes from 1998, 2003, and 2008.

    Todays letter backs off for 2011 all together while they use this fall for data gathering. "Upon further review of the scope and impact of that policy, I have determined not to implement it during 2011.


    While we have been vigilant in improving not only our show but the safety of our haunt, we would have been forced to cease operating at the building we were in because the sprinkler system would have cost about $ 75,000. This is more than what the building is valued at, so there would be no business plan or bank financing that would work.

    Our plan to add more to our safety plan and step up what we do above and beyond the minimum of the mandatory codes will be implemented anyway.

    Again, great news for Indiana haunted houses today!!!!
    .
    .
    .
    Brett Molitor (aka ~ JamBam) Member of HAA

    Haunted Hotel-13th Floor (est by Huntington Jaycees in 1968 8) )
    Longest running Haunted House in the WORLD!!

    Hysterium Haunted Asylum (old Haunted Cave), Fort Wayne Indiana

    Hysterium Escapes - 4 rooms with 3 themes


    www.HauntedHuntington.com

    www.facebook.com/hauntedhotel

    www.Hysterium.com

    www.facebook.com/HysteriumFtWayne

    www.hysteriumescapes.com

    www.facebook.com/hysteriumescapes


    sigpic

  • #2
    Good for you! It's good to see understanding fire marshalls! Honestly, as long as the actors and owners use basic common sense, there isn't an excessive need for a $75,000 sprinkler system. Fire proof as much as you can, keep plenty of fire extinguishers on hand, train actors to accommodate patrons to the nearest emergency exit, have emergency lighting and have good insurance!

    I'm still convinced that the biggest push for more fire safety stems from one very recent and distinct incident.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjVXBtMzEes

    Comment


    • #3
      Congratulations Brett! That is great news. From talking haunt with you, I know you and your team care about the safety of your guests as much as the city and state officials do and you have a plan in place for any emergency.

      Kel
      sigpic
      Kelly Allen
      Raycliff Manor Haunted Attraction
      www.RaycliffManor.com
      www.Facebook.com/RaycliffManor
      www.HauntBook.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Great news. I knew you were concerned about this. Hope other states follow this example...
        http://www.bigscaryshow.com
        http://www.rabidbadger.org

        Comment


        • #5
          No offense, but this is not good news. All it takes (God-forbiddin) is an accident that involves fire and no fire suppression and the media will run with this. In turn, it will only draw more attention (overkill, that is) and all fire marshals across the country will dissect us even more. Although I sympathize with the enormous cost you would incurr, I hardly think that posting something like this is a 'gratifying' moment to the industry as a whole. I mean no disrespect...

          Comment


          • #6
            I think it is good for you as long as you are safe in every aspect. Just because they let it go this year doesnt mean they will next year. Better save for next year.?! Have a great season!
            Damon
            Frightmasters
            www.houseoffright.com
            Damon Carson

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by annarchy View Post
              No offense, but this is not good news. All it takes (God-forbiddin) is an accident that involves fire and no fire suppression and the media will run with this. In turn, it will only draw more attention (overkill, that is) and all fire marshals across the country will dissect us even more. Although I sympathize with the enormous cost you would incurr, I hardly think that posting something like this is a 'gratifying' moment to the industry as a whole. I mean no disrespect...
              But then you have to bring up the whole "safety" issue. As many have said before, smoke alarms save lives; fire sprinklers save property. The vast majority of people killed in "fires" die of smoke inhalation. A fire will give off smoke and set off an alarm before it becomes big enough to endanger anyone, and the haunt should have been evacuated long before then.

              So are fire inspectors really thinking about this beyond just a knee-jerk reaction, or are they trying to save themselves some work if the building does catch on fire? And whichever is the case, what about just about every other business that doesn't have sprinklers?

              Comment


              • #8
                Shawnc:
                I totally agree with you; I'm not implying that the fellow haunter is cutting corners or intentionally jeopordizing safety. But please consider two things: is the media fair and just these days?? IF something happened and people were injured due to smoke inhalation or whatever, do you honestly think they are going to report "that at least the attraction had smoke alarms." ?? C'mon....they'd take this and put a black eye on our industry. The second thing: in regards to other businesses not having sprinkler systems...again, I agree. However, how many other businesses remove customers from reality and place them in a world of make-believe, get their heart rates up and andrenlin, freak them out, turn the lights down low and throw them in a maze??? Hard to compare our industry with too many others out there.

                I just feel as an industry whole, we need to all be a little more conscience of everything we do. Not saying we need to "police" or "socialize" the industry, but sometimes our actions can affect others outside of ourselves. I simply feel, in my opinion, that something like this could have negative concequences on the industry as a whole IF something bad happened. Then the media gets on this forum (because it is public) and reads that someone posts a "victory" for not having to have a sprinkler system.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I must admit I don't feel like its great news at all... depending on how the haunt is designed, in a real building or a tent, or simply outside covered with camo I would reserve judgement on whether you should or shouldn't have a sprinkler system. They claim that sprinkler systems really dont' save lives they save property, the smoke kills, but if a sprinkler system can put out a small fire before it becomes a raging one and limits the smoke, who knows. If a fire does happen in a haunt without a sprinkler system then that is exactly what they will blame when its all said and done... and if anyone gets hurt that is exactly what they'll state when they sue the city, fire dept and your business. The good news is the city and fire dept will go down with ya...

                  I dont' think its a good idea to open inside a big building without one unless you build that haunt with like a 100% fire hallway around the whole entire attraction, built up to the ceiling 3 times thick of sheet rock, and or it was in a tent with 10 zillions exits to the outside of the tent or in a space around 1000 square feet.

                  Larry
                  Larry Kirchner
                  President
                  www.HalloweenProductions.com
                  www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                  www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                  www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    one size does not fit all

                    The Haunt industry is no different than any other industry, in the fact that regulation slams the door shut on new businesses starting up. In many industries corporations actually lobby to have strict regulations imposed, therefore eliminating any competion; They then swallow up the resources of the smaller companies for pennies on the dollar. If it were not for regulations, large companies in many cases would find it difficult to compete with the smaller companies. Small companies are very efficient by necessity. They also have better customer service. Think about it, would you rather be dealing with the owner of small store or an army of minimum wage clerks who cant count your change back correctly. I am not saying that small haunts are better than large ones. I am merely establishing how regulation kills small business and why big business loves regulation.
                    Here in Ohio, one of the largest fire alarm and security companies practically writes the fire code. Does anyone see a problem with this, or is it just me?
                    The midwest is full of haunts that are in the 4000 to 5000 sq. feet range. Many of these haunts are lucky if they see 300 customers a night. Based on some of the posts it sounds like many among us think that they should install a sprinkler system that would easily cost more than what they would make in the next decade.
                    It seems like every few years the subject of an industry induced national standard comes up. It always seems to come from the largest haunts in the largest citys. It comes from far away states, it might as well come from another country, for that matter. Like many, I am from a small town (by choice) I have nothing against the "big city folk", but I cannot relate to them, nor can they relate to me. This is exactly why there should never be an industry wide standard. It's one of those "Don't piss in my yard, and I won't piss in yours" situations.
                    It is true that there are haunts out there that have no business opening their doors to the public. Luckily these back yard shows don't see many people. The haunt that started this thread is far from back yard. Brett runs a professional show that I would feel more than confident sending my kids to. So on that note, congradulations Brett. I am happy for you, I am happy for the smaller haunts in the industry and I am very happy for the people in the sovereign State of Indiana.

                    It is refreshing to witness courageous common sense.
                    www.haroldshaunt.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The media would be all over a fire in a haunt with or without spinklers.. Thats what they do, the media destroyed the real estate market which caused the whole recession crap we here about everyday!! God forbid there was fire in a haunt, it would trickle across the county like a bad case of herpes.

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                      • #12
                        sprinklers

                        It does not matter the size of the haunt. Whether one sees 300 patrons or 30000. All it will take is for one or two people to get hurt in a fire and I can guarantee that the regulations will fly. I was told by state senators when this conversation came up that if sprinklers are required and in Iowa they are if a haunt is more than 1000 sq ft or there has to be 2 hour firewalls, if small communities do not enforce this and someone got hurt they could and would seriously consider OUTLAWING haunted houses in the state. Also when it comes to life safety issues in codes they cannot be just waived away. Cities and counties are also responsible for what happens at haunted houses in their jurisdictions. They can say no they are not but they are. Because anytime they give an inspection and ok for you to operate it puts them on th ehook if anything happens also. It isn't fair if I am complying with the issue and another haunt the same size doesn't have to but if something happens there they can come back and regulate my haunt again or outlaw me also.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In my humble opinion, size of haunt does matter, it's a numbers thing. Let's just say that you cross the road 300 times, there is a chance that you could be hit by a car. Now lets say you cross that same road 30,000 times, the odds of you getting hit by a car just went way up. Complicate this whole process by crossing the road faster, and taking more risks in order to achieve the goal of 30,000 road crossings, add in fatigue and I would say that you are talking about 2 completely different situations. Both instances require caution and some common sense, but the risk of one greatly outweighs the other.
                          Here in Ohio, the official having jurisdiction does have the authority to give a variance on a sprinkler system as long as certain criteria are met. Yes, by doing so, he is taking responsability if something happens. It takes a very courageous, sensible and unselfish person to give these variances. They do not take these variances lightly, they limit occupancy and to some degree, you have to earn their trust.

                          I believe that there is a greater underlying problem that has been completely overlooked. We as an industry, and a society for that matter, have been conditioned to beg our officials for the right to conduct our business. We cower everytime that "an incident" happens, no matter how great or small. We immediately turn on the perpetrators in an effort to distance ourselves from these inferior haunted house owners. The bigger we get, the more we have to lose, and the more we cower. It is good to some degree that we police our own, but I believe that the most effective way to do this is to educate and not try to disrupt the balance of the free market with a one size fits all building code.

                          The argument that an incident on the East Coast will have an impact on the West Coast is no different than the justification the government is trying to use about health care, smoking, eating fatty foods, and everything else that free people engage in.
                          Instead of cowering and turning on each other, why not say it like it is. It is unreasonable to impose an added $100,000 expense on a business that makes $20,000 a year. If your State wants to impose these kinds of restrictions on you, make them explain to the public why they are doing this during a time of economic crises. I don't care much about what happens in other states, I don't stick my nose where it doesn't belong, and I don't care much for when others do it to my State.

                          Maybe it's just me, but I am really tired of big city people having a say so in what goes on in small town Ohio. We do just fine making our own laws, educating our own kids, and deciding for ourselves what is best for our community.
                          Last edited by Mike Goff; 04-24-2011, 05:59 PM.
                          www.haroldshaunt.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I DO NOT think every haunted house needs a sprinkler system... especially tent haunted houses. If you build a tent haunted house you could provide 50 exits, so long before any fire would engulf the thing everyone could get out easy. A sprinkler system would just or should I say might save the haunt.

                            Again let me say that if the person creating the haunted house has half as many brains or experience as I've had with tent haunts they would design their tent show as I'm describing and honestly don't see the need for one. Additionally you can do as we do at Creepyworld and have 1000 square feet or less covered with 20 foot seperation from another maze. This works as well its so short so small nothing comes into play, plus you fire extingshers everywhere.

                            HOWEVER ... an indoor building you should have a sprinkler system because you might have two maybe three exits and they are not easy to find.

                            Any haunt who runs their haunt indoors without a sprinkler system is putting their customers lives at stake I feel.

                            Larry
                            Larry Kirchner
                            President
                            www.HalloweenProductions.com
                            www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                            www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                            www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by drfrightner View Post
                              HOWEVER ... an indoor building you should have a sprinkler system because you might have two maybe three exits and they are not easy to find.
                              Any haunt who runs their haunt indoors without a sprinkler system is putting their customers lives at stake I feel.
                              Larry
                              There are those that feel that running an indoor haunt "with two or three hard to find exits" is putting customer safety at risk - regardless if they have a sprinkler system or not.
                              http://www.piratesofemerson.com

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