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Indiana Fire Marshal holds off enforcing sprinkers....

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  • #46
    Resources:

    http://www.iccsafe.org/GR/Pages/adoptions.aspx

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna..._Building_Code

    http://www.standard-building-code.com/boca-codes.shtml (buy a copy of the book) (look up special amusement / haunted houses)

    http://www.nfpa.org/itemdetailjourna...6&itemID=36230 (article about haunted houes which states the following rules for haunted houses) (what does it say about a haunted house and sprinkler systems... read on) No bully tactics just facts! You wanted facts here they are ... clear as day.

    patrons an additional tool to assist them in finding their way out under emergency conditions.
    Special amusement buildings
    Chapter 12 Section 12.4.7 and Chapter 13, Section 13.4.7 are identical, deal with the life-safety requirements for Special Amusement Buildings, and state the following:

    12/13.4.7.1* General. Special amusement buildings, regardless of occupant load, shall meet the requirements for assembly occupancies in addition to the requirements of 12/13.4.7, unless the special amusement building is a multilevel play structure that is not more than 10 feet (3,050 millimeters) in height and has aggregate horizontal projections not exceeding 160 feet2 (15 meters2).

    12/13.4.7.2* Automatic Sprinklers. Every special amusement building, other than buildings or structures not exceeding 10 feet (3,050 millimeters) in height and not exceeding 160 feet2 (15 meters2) in aggregate horizontal projection, shall be protected throughout by an approved, supervised automatic sprinkler system installed and maintained in accordance with Section 9.7.

    12/13.4.7.3 Temporary Water Supply. Where the special amusement building required to be sprinklered by 12/13.4.7.2 is movable or portable, the sprinkler water supply shall be permitted to be provided by an approved temporary means.

    12/13.4.7.4 Smoke Detection. Where the nature of the special amusement building is such that it operates in reduced lighting levels, the building shall be protected throughout by an approved automatic smoke detection system in accordance with Section 9.6.

    12/13.4.7.5 Alarm Initiation. Actuation of any smoke detection system device shall sound an alarm at a constantly attended location on the premises.

    12/13.4.7.6 Illumination. Actuation of the automatic sprinkler system, or any other suppression system, or actuation of a smoke detection system having an approved verification or cross-zoning operation capability shall provide for the following:
    (1) Increase in illumination in the means of egress to that required by Section 7.8
    (2) Termination of any conflicting or confusing sounds and visuals
    12/13.4.7.7 Exit Marking.
    12/13.4.7.7.1 Exit marking shall be in accordance with Section 7.10.
    12/13.4.7.7.2 Floor proximity exit signs shall be provided in accordance with 7.10.1.6.
    12/13.4.7.7.3* In special amusement buildings where mazes, mirrors, or other designs are used to confound the egress path, approved directional exit marking that becomes apparent in an emergency shall be provided.
    12/13.4.7.8 Interior Finish. Interior wall and ceiling finish materials complying with Section 10.2 shall be A throughout.
    Larry Kirchner
    President
    www.HalloweenProductions.com
    www.BlacklightAttractions.com
    www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
    www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

    Comment


    • #47
      I believe that an agreement has been reached

      After quite some time on the phone with Larry, I believe that we are now on the same terms. Larry has shown me a way to install a sprinkler system that will not bankrupt me. The last time that I got a quote from a sprinkler company we were talking in the range of $160,000. I have invested 13 years, and my life's savings into my show, walking away was not an option. $160,000 is not something that I have on hand, or could even borrow at this point. It was cost prohibitive for me a small business. That has been my point all along. You just can't spend money that you don't have. I still think that a small haunt can operate safely without a system, but now that I know I can afford one, I will do it for that added protection.

      To me, it was a shocking revelation to find out that I can have a compliant sprinkler system without being ass raped. With the exception of discussing an intrusive government, I wish that I had been given this information sooner. This is the proper way to continue this discussion. I would like to hear more about cost saving ways to install a sprinkler. those of you who know, please share.

      For years, all that I have heard from the Haunted community is get a sprinkler, get a sprinkler. So what do I do, I get quotes, ass raping quotes. I have never had anyone explain to me, how to go about it. Thank you Larry, in spite of the fact that a few hours ago, I thought you were a douche bag. You have done what no one else has ever offered. You actually gave me usable information.

      As far as me not caring about the industry, I do, this is why I fiercely defend small market haunts, even at the risk of excommunication from the rest of the industry. I have been accused of being too individual. Hell yes I am an individual, with individual rights.


      The only other issue that I have is this. I hear time and time again, You can't put a price on safety. I could not disagree more. Safety is extremely important, but when the price of safety is freedom, the price is too high. Freedom has been bought with blood. So please find another way to phrase the importance of safety. It may sound petty, but to this former marine, it is heart wrenching and disgusting at the same time.
      www.haroldshaunt.com

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by drfrightner View Post
        Mike,


        Did you know that they might have adopted BOCA but haven't adopted the latest versions, they might still be using 1995 rather than 2008 or 2011 or whatever.

        .
        This is very true and I can personally say it happened to me. Wrong code book was being looked at by an inspector because someone borrowed the updated one without informing him. Luckily, he caught the mistake quick enough and got with me immediately.
        Jared Layman

        Comment


        • #49
          [QUOTE=Mike Goff;117466]
          For years, all that I have heard from the Haunted community is get a sprinkler, get a sprinkler. So what do I do, I get quotes, ass raping quotes. I have never had anyone explain to me, how to go about it. Thank you Larry, in spite of the fact that a few hours ago, I thought you were a douche bag. You have done what no one else has ever offered. You actually gave me usable information.

          [/QUOTE

          Some people around here don't like to hear it, but Larry is very helpful and friendly when you talk to him. Its easy to figure that out when you talk to him personally.
          Jared Layman

          Comment


          • #50
            heres an interesting story which applies..


            my wife n i walked out of our home
            to go somewhere
            once my wife n i were in our car
            i said i wanted to make a quick sandwich..
            and went back inside..
            our dryer belt had caught fire..
            and our home..(which we had just walked out of and everything was fine) was engulfed in smoke..
            soon as the first smoke hits your lungs...Blam its over
            you cant see or breath..

            just an fyi..

            our city has adopted ifc and boca
            and we r sprinklered
            btw
            our authority having jurisdiction
            has made us apply to lotsa of their own views about nfpa codes
            and has made us do more then required
            i remember talking to Larry about it ..

            btw
            when you r the one who cant breath or see and r crawling looking for the way out..
            hopefully u see the light
            in order to see the orchestra ...you must turn your back on the crowd...



            www.HAUNTEDHOOCHIE.COM
            www.DEADACRES.COM

            Comment


            • #51
              Good point, and that is definately something to think about. Good story to directly apply to the conversation. Hopefully, your house was ok.
              Jared Layman

              Comment


              • #52
                great discussion...

                This thread was started because I was relieved that the Indiana Fire Marshall rescinded the implementation of adopting sprinkler rules for all haunts irregardless of any grandfathering for the 2011 season. They are going to get more info. The "glee" was not in getting out of being safe, but rather not having to possibly shut down or move because of it. Safety has become a priority with me as with the rest of the industry. I have been in haunting 25 years and have seen great improvements in everything. The regulations have changed because of incidents in 1973, 1984 at haunts and 2000 at a nightclub.

                The comments have indeed been great discussion on an issue that we all find controversial, not only in what is needed, but in dealing with the authorities. The associations have been split internally on whether to take the top off the potentially pandoras box and address the issue with state and national authorities. In my state I feel that it is time to have discussions between the haunt operators and the state fire marshall. Most other industries have spokemen, advocates, lobbyists, and experts weigh in on their own fate and it is time to do that in our state.

                I think everyone agrees that sprinklers are at the top of the preferred list of items, followed by smoke/fire alarms. The state and local authorities make the final decision on what is mandatory and optional.

                The haunt operators that work within the rules, laws, and standards will pay a steep price if someone gets hurt. I feel that it will not from those like us, but the new, inexperienced, or get rich quick schemers. Indiana's Fire Marshall put out an article last year for the public to check the permit of haunts before they enter and to report those without permits. We need to do the same if a permit is not known. Maybe we should have to put our permit number in our advertising like the gaming events. Bottom line is that we all have to help keep the industry safe or it will not be good.
                .
                .
                .
                Brett Molitor (aka ~ JamBam) Member of HAA

                Haunted Hotel-13th Floor (est by Huntington Jaycees in 1968 8) )
                Longest running Haunted House in the WORLD!!

                Hysterium Haunted Asylum (old Haunted Cave), Fort Wayne Indiana

                Hysterium Escapes - 4 rooms with 3 themes


                www.HauntedHuntington.com

                www.facebook.com/hauntedhotel

                www.Hysterium.com

                www.facebook.com/HysteriumFtWayne

                www.hysteriumescapes.com

                www.facebook.com/hysteriumescapes


                sigpic

                Comment


                • #53
                  I really like the comments here... and the discussion and its nothing person I don't think against anyone.

                  Couple things though... I'm always trying to be helpful my comments I make are intended to help. A lot of times you read posts back and forth and you just never know what someone is really saying... you can always pick up a phone and call me 314 504 3970.

                  If or when I feel like I've said something and someone clearly doesn't understand my intent and or I think I've offended someone I'll pick up a phone and call them and explain. It was nice talking to Mike and I'm glad I was able to explain about how to get a sprinkler system. I've learned a lot from installing over 200 plus attractions and dealing with all sorts of different inspectors.

                  Let me just say in response to Mikes comments about defending 'small market haunts'...

                  Guess what Mike... we are ALL SMALL market haunts, or should I say small business owners and operators and all of us have to abide by whatever our local inspectors want us to do. No matter how big your haunt is we are still all small fish in a big pond. I have to deal with all sorts of things myself, and as I explained to you the first year we opened darkness in the new building these guys kept adding stuff everytime my eyes opened and wouldn't let us open for the first 3 weeks we advertised. We opened THREE weeks late... I got sick of it and I was mad and at the end of the rope.

                  I had to go all the way to the top to resolve the issues... it was all because of some stupid article stating 'HAUNTED HOUSE BURNS DOWN' when all it was was a vacant building that a charity haunt had used the year before. There was NO haunt inside, it was august but the media just ran with the idea... next thing you know all the news outlets want to do safety stories on haunts driving our local inspectors crazy so they put the screws to me.

                  It was totally unfair... it cost me something like $80,000 MORE to open than expected.

                  One stupid story... now understand why I say one fire in a haunt that doesn't have a sprinkler system what they could do to ALL OF US!

                  I don't want to imagine it! I really don't!

                  Larry
                  Larry Kirchner
                  President
                  www.HalloweenProductions.com
                  www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                  www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                  www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Sprinkler systems

                    We're looking for a new location for our haunt. We started with a list of 16 potential locations and quickly eliminated 14 of them because they didn't have sprinklers. Since we know they are required, there isn't any reason for us not to move into a location without them.

                    I'm currently tracking down a supplier that carries individual units that mount to the ceiling and disperse a chemical instead of water. This way we would avoid running water lines throughout the building. I'm trying to get them to take a booth at MHC. I could consider many more locations if we were able to install this type of a system.

                    At our last building we had a sprinkler system and 18 chemical fire extinguishers and the FM still made us purchase 4 water pressure extinguishers. I told him that if we had a fire; we wouldn't be attempting to put it out; instead we would be getting everyone out of the damn building and let the fire dept put out the fire. We were in the middle of two fire stations, both within 5 minutes of our building.

                    For those with an existing building without sprinklers; I understand you feelings. Getting everyone out should be priority #1. Proper training and hold fire drills often to ensure everyone's safety. It's a shame our government feels they need to get involved in every aspect of our lives. I'm sure glad I don't live in CA.

                    Spike

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      meeting on March 13 with state fire marshall

                      I have a meeting set up with the state fire marshal and dir of building enforcement on March 13 to talk about fire code and regulations.

                      Trying to get the word out to Indiana haunts to contact me if interested in participating? There is limited space at the first meeting and I need to tell them how many are coming a few days ahead.

                      We intend on getting a solid relationship built between haunt owners and the fire marshals office. Brett 260-437-5598 brettmolitor@yahoo.com

                      Thanks,

                      Brett
                      .
                      .
                      .
                      Brett Molitor (aka ~ JamBam) Member of HAA

                      Haunted Hotel-13th Floor (est by Huntington Jaycees in 1968 8) )
                      Longest running Haunted House in the WORLD!!

                      Hysterium Haunted Asylum (old Haunted Cave), Fort Wayne Indiana

                      Hysterium Escapes - 4 rooms with 3 themes


                      www.HauntedHuntington.com

                      www.facebook.com/hauntedhotel

                      www.Hysterium.com

                      www.facebook.com/HysteriumFtWayne

                      www.hysteriumescapes.com

                      www.facebook.com/hysteriumescapes


                      sigpic

                      Comment

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