the people of the united states need to take our country back!!!

[screamline studios]

Mad wax !!! I dont think your ass or mine will make a difference but the masses coming together will !!!! Most everyone brings up good point however how do people stand up for what is right and how do you gather the masses to make the change??

[Jim Warfield]

How Do We Gather Together?

Via Facebook and other such things, until the Gov, shuts it down or assesses a huge fee(tax?) so nobody can afford to be on-line except those who think nothing of spending such money on something that doesnot directly put food in their stomach of keep a solid roof overhead.
Some Governmental bodies have also tried to make it illegal to catch rain water. Why? Because huge companys told them to legislate such things because the big company is going to sell us their water . This was tried in South America and that government kicked the big international company's butt OUT! This was brought up for a vote in Illinois several years ago and got voted down then when everyone just saw it as "Silly" without knowing the scheme behind it.
Maybe next time the big dollar company will have their votes pre-paid for and it will slide through.
.. then when you get you bill from the company selling you your sunshine and breathing air, maybe then we will become concerned?

[Mutant Space Gerbil]

Jim what the hell

Big bad companies, people with to much money..............all companies are started with a dream by one person or a small group of people who want more from life.... Too much money???? whats the point of working hard and building something from nothing....oh and those people that you a demigoging are the ones who pay most of the taxes in this country. The very things you are bitchin about is what makes this country great. The only thing I agree with is that the vast number of corrupt politicians is unfathomable. But thats why we vote and if we started voting for PEOPLE NOT PARTIES that would do their job and make the hard decisions instead of catering to everyones WANTS we would be better off in the long run. Right now we have a welfare state full of gimmie more, I need it, you owe me mentalities. What they need is to start doing for themselves. Take some damn responsibility for yourself.........I make a good living and I would be a damn fool if I werent saving for my own retirement. Social security should go away and it will.... this is the first year without a surplus that the govt borrows against and it will only get worse.. just my 2 cents, no I will keep it and add it to my SAVINGS.

[Mike Goff]

Corporations are not "The People"

The founding fathers were brilliant men. They chose thier words carefully and based thier decisions upon experience. It was thier bad experience with the East India Trading Company (arguably the entity that ultimately led to the War for Independence) that led them to limit a corporation to only deal in one commodity, to exist for a period of 20 to 30 years (enough time to accomplish a specific goal, or large project), and they could only be formed when given a charter by the State. In other words, they had to justify thier existence. The East India Trading Company acted much like corporations of today act. They buy politicians to distort the market, in thier favor, with draconian regulations and taxes that they themselves are exempt from. Once the mom and pop competition is run out, they then swallow up the resources and corner not just a market, but all markets.
I agree with you completely on principle, I too am a commited capitalist, but, it is very clear to me, that the founding fathers did not view corporations in the same light that they viewed "The People" and neither do I. People have been so conditioned to jobs, jobs, jobs, that they never think to make a living on thier own.

I hear it all the time, what would happen to all of the jobs if the corporations went away. The same thing that always happens when a void is created, it gets filled by something else. If the automotive industry were completely deregulated and a flat tax were implemented, I strongly suspect that things would be like they used to be. Instead of the big 3, there would be dozens, if not hundreds, maybe a thousand small car companies all over the country. People would be building and selling cars out of thier garage. (I would!!!) They would be earning a good living, providing local jobs, and probably be producing much higher quality at a lower price.

I have no problem whatsoever with rich people, in fact, I admire them and study them in order to improve my own standard of living. I have a serious problem with a large group of people who pool thier resources in order to dominate a field, and then use the wealth that they have accumulated to influence policy. By doing so, they are slamming the door shut on anyone else's ability to accumulate wealth and in the end, they infringe on thier liberties. I make no distinction between corporations and labor unions. They both pool thier resources to dominate, they bully others out of the field and they use thier combined wealth to buy political favors. Which is worse, GE or SEIU, I honestly don't know. If politicians didn't have all of that power, no one would try to buy thier votes. (interesting concept, maybe that is why the founders warned of centralized power.)

Everyone think out of the box for a minute... Break away from your political conditioning and think about this.

Democrats bitch about big business, Republicans bitch about big government. I say that big business and big government are one in the same and all you party animals are being fooled into supporting one or the other.
I think that George Carlin said it best "The owners of this country will never fix the education system, because they want you to be just smart enough to fix and run thier machines, but dumb enough to keep doing more for less"

Educate yourselves and stop voting away my liberty!

[Barry]

For me, I am more scared of the bigger picture. I see the world becoming more and more polarized every day. It is almost like Stephen King's "The Stand" (I still worked in a haunt reference). The real question is what side will you be on?

[wickedfarmer]

Rome

"The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome fall" -Cicero 55 B.C.

[Darkangel]

Great quote Wickedfarmer, great quote!

DA

[lurker]

Barry,

The Stand is one of my all time favorite books! You know Randall Flagg doesn't die at the end. He wakes up on a beach somewhere in South America, and starts all over again.
So, chose a side and chose a different side next time around. The battle just continues on and on.... no one ultimately wins.

Two things need to be done in DC, a part from sending all the buzzards home and starting completely fresh. One is there needs to be a constitutional amendment that requires a balanced budget. It is common sense, but beings their isn't any then it needs to be spelled out for them in the constitution. And, the second thing that needs to be done is the tax system needs to be tossed out completely. Instead, there should be a flat % on everyone rich or poor. Make the richest pay 5% and make the poorest pay 5%. No loop holes and no BS.


Randall Flagg for President!

[Jim Warfield]

Flat Tax equals flat stomachs

At least for the poorer of us.
The wealthy won't be starving or hungry but a whole lot of the rest of us sure will be. Or maybe just living in houses with no electricity or gas or a rain-shedding roof?
I don't wish to see my fellow countrymen in such hard times.
If they can afford food, maybe they can afford to be my haunt customer too?

[Jim Warfield]

It is a tempting human failing.

To think of others as "Lazy", "Stupid" or maybe just unlucky, if they have no job or have a job that pays insignificant wages by our standards. Thinking like this does make it easier to discount a whole lot of other people and disreguard their basic needs and their human worth doesn't it?
"HEY! I got Mine!" Now get to work and find or make Yours!"
Sharpen your ax and clear your 160 acres of virgin land, start swinging, don't stop til you have the crops planted and that cabin built before the snow flys....things have changed. Different tools are needed.
I used to carry groceries out to a brand new "factory" super street hot rod as they laughed and were on food stamps as I worked 60 hours each week and struggled to pay off a Pinto. Yes, I have been there. They squealed the tires as they accellerated away, infants bouncing loosely in the car seats...it can make you mad, it can make you wonder???
The "Rich" pay all the taxes? Why not (if this was the case) our people's army and our bodies and lives protect their investments around the world. they get richer we get killed , wounded, ignored, lose our civilian jiobs, lose our homes lose full benefits afterwards.

[wickedfarmer]

200 years..avg. age of greatest civilations throughout history

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply can not exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on. the majority always votes for the canidates who promise the most benefits from public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy...history professor University of Edinborough in 1887 remarking on fall of Athenian Rerpublic and democracy throughtout history.

This is nothing new folks. I knew the last presidential election fate was sealed when news showed lady saying "Obama is going to take care of my mortgage".

Wicked Farmer

[xtremecreator]

The numbers I heard were if we stopped spending today and started paying 100 million a week ...it would take nearly 300 years to pay it off...............

Our money is going to be worthless, thats why I believe everyone is buying gold & silver.
The world might shut our dollar down.
There are already U.S. businesess that will not take U.S. dollars!

This is going to be bad.........................How in the hell are we going to get out of this?

I dont see it!

John

[Mike Goff]

Odds are that there are people out there, that would like to allow poor people to suffer and to see senior citizens eat cat food. I personally have never met such a person. I doubt that anyone on this forum is like that, and I absolutely reject the idea that an entire political party is that cruel, I say this, despite the fact that I cannot stand Republicans. They are almost as bad for the country as Democrats.

I do believe that it is a bad situation when half of the country pays taxes and the other half does not. Everyone needs to have skin in the game. That does not mean that I hate poor people and eat children. For the record, I believe income tax to be immoral and akin to slavery, but that is another topic for another day.
I believe that those who do pay taxes, pay entirely too much. When the government can spend millions studying shrimp on a treadmill, and the sexual habits of drunken monkeys, we are sending too much money to Washington. When the US government invades every 3rd world country that, by pure coincidence, does not have a central bank then we have a moral obligation to stop sending money to Washington. We pay way too much money in taxes!

I believe it is a noble and American thing to send aid to other countries who have been struck by disaster, but we send money to just about every country in the middle east, and then stick our nose in thier business. If you follow the money, it is not a stretch to say that we fund both sides of every war on that side of the globe. We send too much money to Washington.
We prop up leaders and then knock them down, we destroy a country and then rebuild it. We find another leader to prop up, and start over. We send too much money to Washington.

They have spent us into oblivian, (Yes, both freakin parties) yet I keep hearing that if we stop spending it will be the poor who suffer, and the children will starve. When the waste stops, I will take that argument seriously, until then, I am insulted that anyone would think that I am that stupid to think that we are having an adult conversation, and that the poor will starve.
I am a landlord, I have 3 apartments and my tenants think that I am rich (I'm not) yet I see them enjoying thier weekends (I work) they relax in the evenings (I work) they constantly cook out, drink beer, and play cornhole (while I work). In America even the poor are rich by the rest of the worlds standards. God bless America!

[wickedfarmer]

Rent Charlie Wilson's War

Think Mike's above response is too far out there with foreign mingling's?? Rent Charlie Wilsons War. A lone senator with CIA found a way to get arms to Osama Binladen (sound familiar?) to kick Russians out of Afghanistan. Afterwards we left them hung out to dry. Hey guys...GREAT hot tub scene if that is what it takes to get you to watch it.

Sorry I am a history nut. And you all thought I was just another dumb dirt farmer.

[wickedfarmer]

tax

Struck me as funny Mike that you view income tax as immoral like slavery. Income tax was first initiated in USA at 3% on incomes above $800 during 1861....to pay for the war.