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Money Back Haunt LLC. (BS scheme or good marketing?)

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  • #76
    I kinda feel for the guys who sign up for the 1st year with this deal. Worse yet for those who get a bump the 1st year and sign for the high dollar 5 year deal. They agreed to who knows what kind of contract in writing claiming intellectual property. Only after that they realize it is not cracked up to what it is supposed to be. That there is really nothing new than can be protected but got this monkey on their back who they signed a piece of paper with screaming lawsuit all the way if they do otherwise.
    Last edited by Skeered; 03-15-2012, 11:59 AM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by tater View Post
      i too have a money back haunt...but the money only comes back if they make it outta the haunt alive without any stds,

      first i make them have sex with granny,

      second make them traverse a maze of razor wire, bear traps, and loose gerbils

      third and finally if they make it through all of that i shoot them point blank in the head. This has worked 100% of the time at the haunt, and now because i told you all this you owe me some serious cash


      lol...rofl....awesome....

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      • #78
        does the franchise have a money back guarantee?

        You are an ambitious young man. I heard your pitch briefly at the show,but walked on without your green gift bag. You are new, but only time will tell if you are not temporary. Your idea in my opinion is not a good one for anyone other than 1. you and 2 anyone who promotes their event on a short term basis. After time, the haunt will suffer from reputation issues. The rest of the haunts will suffer too.

        I have been in the haunt business since before you were born. Howie is right, he did an promotion like you are claiming to own. Make sure you are protecting the "trademark" (LOGO) when you try to sue anyone. I bet if your attorney would issue a statement to back your claim or give an interview about it, he would be very carefull not to claim the words or concept, but the "trademark", hence the exact artwork.

        See my previous post as to the "trademark" you continue to threaten to protect. The font or logo is yours, but I don't think you own the idea. For the simple fact that since before you were born customers have been asking where that urban legend is located. No one knows exactly, but they know someone that knows. We have a reward of $ 100 to anyone that can tell us where the "money back haunt" is located. For nearly everyone out there, that means that the haunt being sought is a haunt that charges a regular ticket and not a surcharge, or bet, to the customer. The concept you present does off the customer the chance to only see the regular haunt.

        Again, the Haunted Castle in Hustonville, Kentucky has been doing the same thing you are now selling for more than the three years you have. They do two scares and a fear factor eating thing. You might be sued by them if they hear you are claiming the idea, but fortunately for you the patent and trademark laws have recently changed to first filing rather than first use.

        Your comments as to the protection of your trademarks are true only to the LOGO, not the use of the words. You are careful in your statements to make it seem that you own the idea and will sue, but talk is one thing and winning in court is another.

        We were threatened a few years ago about using the Haunted Hotel name. When we reviewed it with our attorney, the LOGO was trademarked and we were using our own artwork and not using theirs, so their attempt to get us to drop the name had no weight.

        Keep in mind that we are not closed minded rather we have seen "ideas" like this storm the haunt frontier only to fade quickly. Many older events remember the AOL national advertising "idea" that burned many including us. Sometimes that affects that haunted industry so the caution is justified. Only time will tell.
        .
        .
        .
        Brett Molitor (aka ~ JamBam) Member of HAA

        Haunted Hotel-13th Floor (est by Huntington Jaycees in 1968 8) )
        Longest running Haunted House in the WORLD!!

        Hysterium Haunted Asylum (old Haunted Cave), Fort Wayne Indiana

        Hysterium Escapes - 4 rooms with 3 themes


        www.HauntedHuntington.com

        www.facebook.com/hauntedhotel

        www.Hysterium.com

        www.facebook.com/HysteriumFtWayne

        www.hysteriumescapes.com

        www.facebook.com/hysteriumescapes


        sigpic

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        • #79
          [QUOTE=RJ Productions;133220]We haven't had this much excitement in years!!!

          BIG problem here that everyone missed or skipped over is that this is NOT a HAUNT!
          This is a CHALLENGE. So it is misrepresented. Here is where the problems, issues and claims
          of fraud and scam will take place.

          People come to the attraction expecting to go through a HAUNT and then if they can make it through
          because they are too scared (point of ging to a haunt) they get their money back. But this is not a
          HAUNT...it is a CHALLENGE. If they complete the challenge they get money back.

          So promoting it as a haunt is misleading and could result in legal repercussions. THAT is the crtical point.



          Target bracketed...fire for effect. Pretty much what I said in comment #49 on page 5. We all know what our first thought is and what customers will come "expecting" with wording "Money back haunt". And it is NOT what they are expecting. "Bait & switch" a customer; and they turn into a "Irate & Bitch" customer only too happy to tell everyone they were duped. Sure...there will be those who upon learning what the challenge is to get money back will find it attractive.

          So tell me this. Why not call it "Haunt with a separate money back challenge". That IS what is truthfully is after all. It is simple, duping the customer is the magic part of the draw.

          Wicked Farmer

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          • #80
            Not only a scam but not enforceable

            So here is the deal. In order to have patent protection, you have to prove that this is an original idea that no one else has thought of. If someone shows up and provides what is referred to as "prior art" demonstrating that the idea was though of before and was used before, the patent is claimed invalid and cannot be enforced. I know this because I hold several patents myself and have been used as a SME for patent infringement suits. They are selling crap and using the paper to scare people away from using the idea.

            I walked away from the sales pitch laughing that they would think we in the industry are naive enough to not smell BS when it was thrown at our feet. By the way, they probably refrained from telling details because they know they can enforce their patents (which I never saw by the way). Another interesting note, it actually takes about 6 years for a patent to be issued once the application has been submitted. They must have filed a long time ago if they have an actual patent!
            Travis "Big T" Russell
            President
            Big T Productions Inc

            Owner and Operator of "The Plague" and "Camp Nightmare"

            Customer Quote of the year: "Damn, I pissed myself"

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            • #81
              A little more info

              There is no mention of a patent when I did a patent search for these guys. Makes me wonder if they even applied. The trademark means no one else can call their haunt The Money Back Haunt (but who would want to)?? You can still claim that you will offer money back if someone makes it through your haunt, as that is not a trademark infringement. As far as the patent goes, they can file all they want and they can sue all they want but it cannot be enforced when there is so much out there of this concept already (just hit Goolge). Any lawyers out there want to pipe in?
              Travis "Big T" Russell
              President
              Big T Productions Inc

              Owner and Operator of "The Plague" and "Camp Nightmare"

              Customer Quote of the year: "Damn, I pissed myself"

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              • #82
                I would like to hear from any haunts out there that are actually willing to admit they signed up for this. Anyone? Anyone... I would be amazed from what I have been hearing, if they have actually sold any territories yet. And would also be shocked by the response to this thread if anyone ever will. I believe this was a poor attempt to make a ton of money trying to market other peoples ideas. If it hasn't failed yet, it will by the end of this season.

                I spent about 4 hours last night searching the Internet for haunts that do some sort of money back challenge. I have come up with 19 that did one at least last year or before and 8 new ones that have already announced that they are doing it this year. Including three in Michigan alone. I do not believe any of them are associated with this moneybackhaunts.com. That is a lot of law suits coming up in the near future. They better all remove the words money back from their web sites right now before they get in big trouble. lol! Some of them are in even bigger trouble. They are offering DOUBLE YOUR MONEY BACK! look out!

                Moneyback, do you actually plan on suing all of these haunts?

                Howie
                Last edited by Howie Slobber Erlich; 03-16-2012, 11:51 AM.
                1986-1997 (Mutilation Mansion,) 1998 (Screamers Haunted House,) 1999 (Evil Intention Haunted House,) 2000-2001 Concept Creator/Business Partner (Urban Legends Haunted House,) 2002 Floor Plan Designer and Consultant for a (Haunted Barn) Owners had city challenges & were never able to open, 2002 Floor Plan Designer/Construction (Fright Nights Haunted House) 2003-2012 Now retired Owner (Deadly Intentions Haunted Attraction)

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                • #83
                  Not to give these guys any credit (since I do think it's a scam, not a haunted house, etc), but there is something to be said for getting people talking about your business. Granted it's not exactly positive attention, but they have to be one of, if not the most talked about companies coming out of TW. People were buzzing about it at the show, now people are talking about it on here and discussing it. Every time I saw one of those neon green shirts walking around the show floor I knew exactly what they were from. Now is this good for business? Who knows, but their name is certainly out there.
                  Mike Quill
                  Fear Town Haunted House

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                  • #84
                    This thread is something...
                    I keep reading it waiting for MBH to tell us what the name of his haunt is?
                    I just don't understand all the 'secrecy'?
                    And I remember waaaaaay back Howie doing the 'money-back' thing...as well as Hustonville...
                    Hmmm?

                    Kirk
                    Kirk Boemmel
                    Dark Ghost Manor
                    www.darkghostmanor.com

                    sigpic

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                    • #85
                      I believe his haunt is Frightmare Manor in TN.

                      http://frightmaremanor.com/

                      If I am wrong, I apologize to whoever owns Frightmare Manor.

                      Howie
                      1986-1997 (Mutilation Mansion,) 1998 (Screamers Haunted House,) 1999 (Evil Intention Haunted House,) 2000-2001 Concept Creator/Business Partner (Urban Legends Haunted House,) 2002 Floor Plan Designer and Consultant for a (Haunted Barn) Owners had city challenges & were never able to open, 2002 Floor Plan Designer/Construction (Fright Nights Haunted House) 2003-2012 Now retired Owner (Deadly Intentions Haunted Attraction)

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                      • #86
                        If you do a quick google search for "money back haunt" you will see that the first result is "Frightmare Manor" in Knoxville. $23 for 3 attractions $15 for the "challange."
                        If you follow the Nightmare link in the header it spells everything out fairly clearly.

                        I don't see how a customer could see it as a scam as the whole thing is clearly laid out as a "challange" and not a haunted house. Just my .02.
                        Joe A

                        Amenti Haunted House in Dekalb, IL
                        www.amenti.info

                        Cavorite Designs
                        www.cavodesigns.com

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                        • #87
                          Spoiler alert

                          SPOILER ALERT

                          According to several reviews of the Money Back Challenge (R) (T) (BS), you have to eat 3 Madagascar cockroaches, wash them down with Habanero pepper sauce, and handle some tarantulas.



                          Then you have to punch your Mom in the face, flush a kitten down the toilet, and watch Fox News for 30 minutes.
                          Spinning Tunnels www.spinningtunnel.com

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                          • #88
                            Hey Howie

                            Howie, about three years ago I sold a guy a couple trailer haunts I had, of course he was real interested in the Panic Room and how we operated it, ours is under ground in an old storm shelter-- funny thing is he was from around Knoxville Tn. We have done the Money Back deal (Fear Factor deal) since 2004 and we haven't made $5,000.00 in all those years put together, like I said it's a good draw for some. But need to make it clear that the Money Back thing is for the Panic Room or what ever you want to call it and not the Haunted Attraction itself or that will piss them off.
                            http://www.hustonville.com

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                            • #89
                              Howie

                              found an old receipt his name was Chris Wooden from Knoxville, Tn if this is the one who says he has the rights to Money Back he got it from us, lol made several trips to Haunted Castle hauling stuff back to Knoxville was so intrigued by the Money Back deal we done, lol if this is the same one who says he has the rights to it he got the idea from us-- not that I care but find it funny he takes the idea then tries to sell to others, but then again that would be the American way lol
                              http://www.hustonville.com

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                              • #90
                                Haunted Castle,

                                They are not making it clear at all. I believe they are stating you must purchase tickets to all 4 haunted events and complete them all to get your money back for just the challenge attraction which from what I can tell is not even any sort of haunt, just the "Fear Factor" type of challenge. I would love to see their signs at their ticket office to see how it's explained when making your purchase. I have no problem with the idea or anyone opening a money back haunt as long as it's legit. My only problem is their claims that they created the idea when you, me and many others have been doing it for years. And trying to make it impossible for anyone to use any version of a money back haunt at their attraction without paying them to do it.

                                Like I said in an earlier post, I am not running a money back haunt anymore, nor do I ever plan on doing one again. I did 2 years ago offer a chance to get a $10.00 refund for anyone who made it all the way through without chickening out. They had to pay a little bit more for that chance, but they could choose not to participate for a cheaper ticket price. All anyone has to do that wants to operate this type of event is to advertise they customers get a refund of their money or part of their money instead of stating the get their money back and they will be safe. Very easy to get around what they are trying to do.

                                Howie
                                1986-1997 (Mutilation Mansion,) 1998 (Screamers Haunted House,) 1999 (Evil Intention Haunted House,) 2000-2001 Concept Creator/Business Partner (Urban Legends Haunted House,) 2002 Floor Plan Designer and Consultant for a (Haunted Barn) Owners had city challenges & were never able to open, 2002 Floor Plan Designer/Construction (Fright Nights Haunted House) 2003-2012 Now retired Owner (Deadly Intentions Haunted Attraction)

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