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Money Back Haunt LLC. (BS scheme or good marketing?)

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  • #61
    Cookie

    PS Cookie as to your post earlier I recommend anything that will draw a larger crowd, lol and you have my blessing copy and print my release or anything else you want to on the Panic Room,
    http://www.hustonville.com

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    • #62
      Haha... thanks Fred!!!!! Too cool.

      Comment


      • #63
        I really hope everyone on this thread, either reading or posting on it has atleast seen the other thread entitled "Who Buys...." well....WE FOUND ANOTHER!

        That was about as classic as the blabbering on this thread. Why watch tv when you can read real people being really upset, instead of real people being pretend upset?

        Now who cheated on who again? JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

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        • #64
          What about a pretend Cookie being pretend upset? hahahah.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Cookie Crumbler View Post
            Mr. Bennett!!!!!!!!!!!

            Fantastic to see you again man. I took a pretty long break from the forums, but somebody had to razz this money back guy!!! hahahaa.

            Hope you're doin' well good sir!!!
            Always a pleasure my friend!! You've come back strong as ever!

            Allan

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            • #66
              I too have a Money Back Haunt...but the money only comes back if they make it outta the haunt alive without any STDS,

              First I make them have sex with Granny,

              Second make them traverse a maze of Razor Wire, Bear Traps, and Loose Gerbils

              Third and finally if they make it through all of that I shoot them point blank in the head. This has worked 100% of the time at the haunt, and now because I told you all this you owe me some serious cash
              Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're an asshole.

              Comment


              • #67
                I still own't be satisfied until they sell me the rights to the entire Eastern Seaboard. I have my $13 dollars in hand....
                Michael Edwards
                Dallas, Texas


                https://www.youtube.com/user/AHauntersLife
                http://darkhourhauntedhouse.com/
                http://facebook.com/Drjkyll

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                • #68
                  Gawd this is entertaining...

                  Again, I don't even know what you did nor was I even IN the industry in the year 2000. If you would like to discuss the differences, if it will make you feel better, I'm ok with that, to prove I didn't steal your idea, of which I hold Trademark Rights and Utility Patent-Pending Business Method Protection on the actual separate attraction itself. Again, I'm a nice guy and want to clear up any confusion so just email me at ChrisMoneyBackHaunts.com .
                  Let me get this straight. "I don't know what you did, but whatever it was it was different from mine, even though I never seen what you did, there just has to be.. just has to be differences, cause somehow the Gubment gave me a trademark, so there were differences cause the Gubment said so, that proves that I didn't steal your idea, and I hope that makes you feel better."

                  Moneyback... Quit being stupid. In a couple posts you claim ignorance. This is not a defense. Since intellectual property and trademarks are so crucial to the core of your business you should be on the phone with Howie right now getting all the info needed or find out what you can about HauntedCastle. This is so you can protect your business model now rather than being passive and just ho hum waiting for somebody to send you an email if they ever do. With that kind of attitude you appear to think that you will not be in this business long. More like a quick buck type of thing rather than long term. That being said then the word scam is trailing not far behind.

                  If you have this trademark attorney on retainer then why isn't he listed on any of your 3 trademarks?? The only explanation is that an attorney did not file your trademarks. You did. Research incontestable trademarks. You stated that the only time your trademark can be contested is while it is published for opposition. Boy are you so dead friggin wrong. The lawyer on retainer talk is BS and doesn't jive.


                  Howie, I respectfully have no idea what you're talking about. I was in high school in 2000 and had no idea about what you did or didn't do at your haunted house 1500 miles away. I will defend my Intellectual Property though, I guarantee it, and so will the USPTO.
                  "and so will the USPTO???? The USPTO doesn't do shit except push paperwork. If your idea was already out there and there is documentation of its prior existence then you are SOL.


                  Cookie, A trademark is simply an associative Name or Words reserved to identify a brand, and protected by the US Gov't. It's crucial to the business world and protects intellectual property for the original claim filed.
                  A trademark does not protect intellectual property or have claims. It ain't protected by the Gubment either. All the Gubment is is an official registrar. It is up to you to use and enforce your trademark. Quit throwing out this crap about how the power of the Gubment will rain down on a person like in the above quote.

                  Something else I just thought of and had to edit my post.... A piece of garbage on this whole deal was that one of your guys at TW told me that you have a lawyer who likes to take people to court in the off season who infringe on your trademarks. Hell, your trademarks received registration merely 3 months ago. You ain't had time to take anyone to court yet. Seems like half your sales pitch is to threaten everybody with a lawsuit because you don't have much of a leg to stand on otherwise.
                  Last edited by Skeered; 03-15-2012, 02:11 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Moneyback:
                    I've attended money back haunted houses that you don't own long before you registered these patents. You said yourself you weren't in the business in 2001. I attended Howie's money back haunt in 2001, and I attended another haunt just last year that claims to have a money back challenge. I'm not saying you knew these attractions existed (though I suspect you did), but if you think you can sue people for continuing to do business as they've done for years under the guise that you came up with their business model, I believe you are in for an unpleasant surprise.
                    This whole "business" reeks of BS. It's an abuse of the trademark and patent systems and, based on what I've seen in this thread, was likely created with the intent to sue anyone who "steals your idea" (even if they somehow stole it years before you came up with it). Shame on you and anyone who conducts business this way.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Here's what irks me about this:

                      1) You did not invent this idea. This has been around as an urban legend for decades, since before I can even remember. You also heard it from Howie; he used this concept back in 2000. So this idea is clearly NOT your intellectual property and I would argue it cannot be anyone's bacause the urban legends are just so widespread. So I think your patent will fall through.

                      2) The other thing is you liscensing the name rather than the content. As we've stated dozens of times on this thread, there are other haunts who have used this since WAY before you "invented it." What do they do if you get your patent? I think it would be perfectly resonable to trademark the CONTENT of your haunt and sell that, but what pissed me off is the (attempted) patenting of the names and concepts. Macdonnalds can patent the Big Mac, but they can't patent the concept of a burger!

                      Also, I would like to know what actually happens on the inside of the attractions, no more BS, tell us what happens.

                      Everything else entirely aside, this October I would like to visit one of the liscenced haunts if there are any near me. Do you have any liscenced haunts in the Denver area?
                      *Sigh*I can't wait til' October

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Haunt View Post
                        Ya know those people who call in to radio shows and say, "First time. Long time." That's me! I've followed the industry for several years now and LOVE it. So first off, congrats to all of you (especially Larry and Shane) who have made it so great! With that said, this topic is the first time I've ever actually made an account. You people all sound like a bunch of bitter children crying over who gets to go down the slide first. Especially Slobber Erlich, Robert Dudziech and “Cookie Crumbler” Wow. Bitter:Table for 3. From what I can tell, MBH made a product (that seems to work), got a Trademark for it and then said "If you want to use our name and knowledge, pay us a fee." What the heck is wrong with that? How is that different than any other business in America? If I want to open a McDonald's, I pay their fee. If I want to open a Burger King, I pay their fee. If I want to open a Walgreen's, I pay their fee. I don't have to use their names, it's my choice. And I gotta be blunt here, do you really think they went public without the ability to defend it? Whoever the person was that said something to the effect of, "If I want to do, I'm going to. And I'm not going to pay you" is just childish. What is this 2nd grade? Grow a pair kid. Would you say that to McDonald's or Burger King? Of course not. Just because someone thought of something you didn't, found a way to adapt something to work that has failed in the past or had the common sense to protect their investment, doesn't mean they should be vilified for it. For years I've seen Haunt owners (or just industry lovers like me) be stereotyped into some kind of freakish-devil worshiping, animal sacrificing demonic influence when we really aren't. People who create these stereotypes about us have closed minds to things they don't understand so they just attack it. That's common in humans, you attack what you don't understand. (Me included) How many of you people have actually talked with the MBH owner to see what they really are doing? Sure, you may THINK you know, or you may have bits and pieces of information from, "I heard that..." or "Someone said that..." (like I did) but c'mon people, do your own research. Now, before you people jump down my throat for supporting Capitalism, just do what I did yesterday and actually communicate with the owner. When I first saw this subject on the boards, I thought, "SCAM". Why? Because scams have been done in the past and I'm conditioned to think that way. After actually communicating with MBH owner, I found out he's an haunted attraction owner who has used this in his own attraction. What they do is actually pretty cool. From what I can tell, the owner has even gone out of their way to answer every question/accusation that the vultures have lobbed at them on this board and the answers actually make sense. It seems to me like the people who keep whining are the ones who are just jealous or ignorant. Again, people attack what they don't understand. Look, you can be mad at me for my post (and I'm sure some of you are) but the bottom line is: Find out the facts from the owner ON YOUR OWN and if you don't like it, don't do business with them, if you do like it, then do business with them. Either way, make your decision and move on. Quit acting like a bunch of babies.
                        Here is some free advice for "First time, Long time". Split your paragraphs up, son. Do us all a kindness and make reading your post easier.

                        Secondly, money back haunt seems awful generic to be able to get a Trademark for those terms. Have you just recently been awarded this trademark? Have you sucessfully sued anyone yet for using the money back concept?

                        Third, (and this a question because I am not sure about this) I thought Trademarks were for logos, brands, and such, not a concept. I would think offering money back would be a concept and you would have to patent that? Does anyone know if this is the case? Also, I thought that even after you apply for a trademark, patent, copyright, or whatever, if a said haunt could prove they used the idea well before you applied to do whatever with it, they could also by-pass your trademark and continue to use that? Is there anyone out there that can enlighten us on that?

                        And finally, I do believe Howie was the first to use the money back concept. A few people around here have done it after him but from what I have heard from people in the know, is that THOSE people ( not Howie) just claimed to do money back and didn't actually have a legit way you could win your money back. Howie had a legit way and I believe people were regularly winning back their money. No tricks or anything. So I guess if you want to promote that your money back haunt, you better have a legit way of letting them win their money back because word travels fast.
                        Jared Layman

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                        • #72
                          Ape drape

                          I invented socks
                          and I invented gravy
                          I made up the cotton gin
                          but no one ever paid me
                          Why beat a dead horse
                          with a career that is cursed?
                          I'll just sue for royalties
                          on things I thought of first

                          Back in Ancient Egypt
                          many Pharaohs went to jail
                          for misappropriation
                          of my Phrygian scale
                          I said listen Tutankhamen
                          you're driving me insane
                          it's obvious those bellies
                          are all dancing to Bloodstains
                          I figured out you owe me
                          and please try not to laugh
                          but every time I hear it
                          I get one more golden calf

                          'cause I invented socks
                          and I invented gravy
                          I made up the cotton gin
                          but no one ever paid me
                          Why beat a dead horse
                          with a career that is cursed?
                          I'll just sue for royalties
                          on things I thought of first
                          Last edited by Dark Attraction; 03-15-2012, 06:26 AM. Reason: Poodle head
                          Spinning Tunnels www.spinningtunnel.com

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Go Bucs!

                            Originally posted by Cookie Crumbler
                            Hey look money back haunts made a new screen name and is using it to defend himself.


                            Originally posted by Haunt View Post
                            Apparently, I can't have a grown-up conversation with Cookie Cutter. But no, I'm not their new screen name. Sorry you're so bitter, but I stand by what I said. In fact, you just proved what I said. But now that I have an account, anyone is welcome to talk with me anytime! My name is Richard and my home is in Tampa, FL. Go Bucs! I won't hide behind a screen name like others.
                            Originally posted by mindtumor View Post
                            Here is some free advice for "First time, Long time". Split your paragraphs up, son. Do us all a kindness and make reading your post easier.
                            "Haunt" clearly has a pretty good grasp of English grammar. I think clumping his paragraphs together is his idea of a disguise! Brilliant!
                            Spinning Tunnels www.spinningtunnel.com

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Haunted Castle View Post
                              we have done a Money Back deal for the last 8-10 years started with Fear Factor and while its not for everyone it does bring in a crowd, for everyone that comes to try it they will have 8-10 friends who want to watch. No Scam just eat worms drink clabbered milk and lay in a casket with rats, spiders and snakes, try to cater to all the basic fears. If they do go through they get their money back and bragging rights that they made it. We do have app 10 major colleges within a 60 mile radus of our haunt and the college kids love it. Just another side show and draw. And in this economy it's just another way to draw a crowd, Differant strokes for differant folks, first I have heard about someone saying they have rights to it as we were the first to try this in the manner we do it.
                              When I saw that this was being marketed at TW, at first, I thought it must be your haunt marketing it, since I think of you first for Money Back haunts. (I'm even in TN!) Now, my questions.

                              1) Do you plan on paying $5500 to do what you have already been doing for a decade?
                              2) Are you ready for a lawsuit since your idea you have already been using is now someone else's intellectual property?

                              This is where I have problems with this. I don't see where "Money Back" is in any way a new idea even within our industry, so I don't see the grounds for a lawsuit. I actually had a local haunt considering signing up, and I talked them out of it, and let them know how many other haunts have done it over the years (including Haunted Castle as my specific example.) There isn't any secret knowledge needed, it's already been done and the info is out there, just like I'm not going to pay someone who trademarks a pepper's ghost all of the sudden.
                              sigpic

                              There are three rules to designing a haunt. Unfortunately, nobody knows what they are.

                              Website: www.HauntedMidsouth.com
                              Haunt: www.ScarecrowTheater.com

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                              • #75
                                WOW what drama!!!

                                We haven't had this much excitement in years!!!

                                Someone stated it correctly, McDonald's can trademark Big Mac, but not burgers!

                                These guys can trademark the individual names, but not the concept of giving money back.

                                BIG problem here that everyone missed or skipped over is that this is NOT a HAUNT!
                                This is a CHALLENGE. So it is misrepresented. Here is where the problems, issues and claims
                                of fraud and scam will take place.

                                People come to the attraction expecting to go through a HAUNT and then if they can make it through
                                because they are too scared (point of ging to a haunt) they get their money back. But this is not a
                                HAUNT...it is a CHALLENGE. If they complete the challenge they get money back.

                                So promoting it as a haunt is misleading and could result in legal repercussions. THAT is the crtical point.

                                Like McD's if you want to use the phrases or names they have trademarked you have to pay a fee.
                                Is it worth it? I would say not yet. You buy a McD franchaise because of the name recognition, the program
                                they have in place, the support. If you don't like what they have to offer you check out Burger King, Carl's,
                                Jack in the Box, Ralley's.... or you open your own burger shop! There are new ones opening every day.

                                DO you really need to buy a MBH franchaise? Up to you. I think they were just a bit TOO agressive. McD's
                                didn't start off selling franchaises for near a half million dollars, but they do now! $5,000 first year $12,000
                                every year after for basically a new and untried "name" ?? Again maybe a bit too agressive. IF they had started
                                with a couple hundred dollars then increase the initial start up cost as the concept grows in numbers and regonition
                                I think more people would jump on board.

                                They guys realize that this is at best a flash in the pan. I really do not see them manning a booth selling franchaises
                                at TW five years from now, (seriously next year is in doubt!) People who did bite will promote it as stated, they may
                                some money, but then with Social Media beating them up because it is NOT a Haunt but a challenge they will drop it
                                or continue with an advertise CHALLENGE" so having the trademark "Money Back Haunt" has little meaning.

                                We have offered challeges for years as line entertainment. We pull people from the audience, they participate in challenges
                                against each other and the winner gets him or herself and their entire group a line pass and they are ceremonially escorted
                                to the front of the line. This want I don't loose any money, I may not get any additional income off it, but then again I don't
                                have to field any complaints either!

                                So if you think a challenge is a way to increase revenue or exposure, try one. Like McD's if you want to use their phrases,
                                you pay for them. Like BK, Carl's and the rest if you don't you create your own and if it is as good or better YOU franchaise
                                it!!

                                Rich
                                R&J Productions
                                Las Vegas, NV
                                www.LasVegasHaunts.com

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