Money Back Haunt LLC. (BS scheme or good marketing?)

[Howie Slobber Erlich]

I do believe it is the same person. That makes it even more amusing that he is claiming the idea as his own, when he got it from you. I guess I owe him an apology! He stole your idea not mine. LOL!

Howie

[graystone]

I did.......

Not see the booth myself hell I did not get to see much of anything. But I know Chris hes a good guy. Maybe he will come here and fill you guys in! Shane and it's are you sure it's Chris? Shane

[Howie Slobber Erlich]

Just confirmed it is the same person that you mentioned. Wow! That is amazing! I think everyone should completely trust this guy now and buy into HIS IDEA!

Howie

[Haunted Castle]

lol

Howie, I probably stole it from you, haha or at least the general Idea seems like years ago I read something where you had a Money Back deal - I just put your Idea and Fear Factor together, lol at least I didn’t try to sell it. I will continue to have ours just too lazy to change web site and advertisement, have been a cop for 32 years don't have many friends except other cops and attorneys so get free legal when needed so we'll see what happens I will dig out old e-mails and correspondents with him lol take care

[Howie Slobber Erlich]

Don't feel bad. A lot of haunts opened a money back haunt the next year after seeing our success. I will admit that it pissed me off at the time but I knew it would happen and that there was nothing I could do about it. Just a shame that someone else is trying to claim it as there own and try to charge people to use the idea. It is a dying gimmick that unless operated to perfection will not work and will cause tons of headaches.

Howie

[Haunted Prints (EOM)]

Realm Of Darkness

Realm of Darkness has had a "Money Back" haunt since at least 2006. Probably longer than that but I am not 100% sure.

While going thru the attraction, you make various decisions and choices to determine if you face the wizard and make it out alive. The concept was phenomenal and entertaining. It added something special to the top notch haunt they were running.

Thank you Hauntcon 2007 for putting this haunt on the your.

http://www.therealmofdarkness.com/legend.htm

[Howie Slobber Erlich]

Yes, Realm of Darkness has had a $1000.00 reward or some sort of money back challenge for "defeating the wizard" for many years now. I believe it started the year after my haunt offered the chance to get your money back! They were one of the first to try to take advantage of the success we had. Why not? You see it work for someone else, you might as well try it for yourself. At least they attempted to do a twist on the theme and not copy the exact same idea that we came up with. By the way, I have always loved Realm. It is or was one of the most detailed haunts around. However, the owner was very upset with us that we did our promotion. It cost her many customers the first year and they even tried to tell us that what we were doing was illegal and threatened to get us shut down.

Another local haunt to this day, still offers the exact same idea we originally created, only now with double your money back. However, we have had several of their employees over the years tell us that they are totally scamming the public and that nobody has ever received their money back. They offer no proof that anyone ever has other than a statement on their web site the says 533 people got the refund last year. It is a horrible haunt and completely deceiving the public. Their numbers show it. They also close early if they are slow or the weather is bad. We have gained many customers from them over the years for that reason alone.

I love all the stories of successful and failed money back attempts that everyone has been emailing me. Keep sending them to me I am enjoying all of this and it's great talking to so many of you. I also thank everyone who has sent me emails and old media that they have found around the web about our haunt from 2000 and it being the first in the nation. I had forgotten some of the articles that were out there and it's bringing back a lot of great memories. And a few bad ones too!

Howie

[wickedfarmer]

This is starting to become my favorite show!

Mind you I love "Making Monsters" and M*A*S*H* is my all time favorite. But this just keeps getting better and better. Stay tuned....

Wicked Farmer

[JamBam]

I knew it !

Thanks Howie and Haunted Castle for figuring it out. Where is the response ???

Rogues Hollow did a very good website for Frightmare. They DO have the "challenge" listed as a challenge. However, they headline every page of their website as "the money back haunt" in a specific font. It IS illegal to use their specific font in the U.S. as it is trademarked, but I still think that the use of the words and names about such are still ok to use.

I agree with others that say that this "challenge" needs to be made clear it is not a "Haunt" as we know it.

I googled complaints about the "challenge" and found this page. Interesting reviews by several that tried the challenge. http://www.topix.com/forum/city/morr...4RFICETQTAA/p3

Now, since Hustonville, KY Haunted Castle was the haunt that this "challenge" has been used a the source of the idea, they should be able to sell their idea as well, right?

[wickedfarmer]

Thanks Brett!

Interesting to read through the peoples comments on this place. LOVE THE FACT that there were several discussing this place but wanting to know about haunted corn mazes in the area! Made my day that on the discussion of this place people were looking for a haunted corn field...just what I have.

Wicked Farmer

[Jim Warfield]

There Will be Customers for "Anything".

How many ? Remains the question and what will they pay? Will it pay enough to hire another person or more to make this challenge profitable? It sure sounds as if some helpers will be busy explaining, signing paperwork, filing paperwork, helping those who don't handle hot sauce and bugs very well. Sounds like numerous problems of a human and public relations nature , as if a haunt needs more along those concerns... but then, what do I "know"? I'm just in the middle of nowhere doing what I do...

About 23 years ago I was told by someone who I am very Sure knew what he was talking about , about someone's attempt to patent, copyright the words "Haunted House"! But of course they just blew $ out their posterior on that one. (Didn't they?)

When I was first on a computer I read about a lawsuit between two haunts that each had the word "Parkway"? in their names, but these two were several States apart!? This wouldn't be too confusing to anyone who has ever seen a map of the United States, would it?
When we went to buy the rights to our web-name "Ravens Grin Inn" we found a speculator already owned it ! Lucky us, we went with "Haunted Ravens Grin", Thank you Mr. Speculator! This got me a much better placement right where I neded to be in search engines, even the small ones powered by a rubber band!
After working on my house for several years I sent a letter that Fall to The Chicago Tribune and they gave me more ink than any other haunt listed in their haunted house section questioning if I was fibbing or not when I told them my house had seven phyiscal levels and that I had an optional guaranteed Scare-Package... This was my first real busy fall. The "Village Idiot" suddenly became the town hero, bringing Bu$$ine$$ to the small town of my Birth (I wan't born in Nigeria ether!)
Did I actually have Seven levels ? Yes, I most certainly did.
Did I have something guaranteed to scare people? I certainly did because almost none of the people coming out here had never been to my house before.
Problems with my "Brag"? Two odd guys complained to me that they weren't "Scared" by my "guranteed scare". I thoughtfully pointed out that if they came for that, they should have mentioned this to me before They stepped aside and allowed the Girl Scout Troop to do it ahead of the two of them!
The two odd guys got quizzical expressions, then a scary reality settled across their faces as I explained how they would have been given a slightly modified, enhanced experience had they made their quest known to me (their imaginations were churning now), they had nothing else to say,pondering the possible way such an experience would have possibly impacted their emotional well-being.
They drove away in their vintage 4-door Classy Pink Rambler (Borrowed from Grandma?)
Besides doing my haunt in my own fairly "Original" style and being extremely flexible as to the style of show I can give, depending upon the group looking at me,(Which helps customers appreciate me more) I also have always been extremely concerned about the positive impressions and feeling of value for the customer's dollar spent with us.
Without extremely favorably impressed customers I would have had no success at all, no repeat business.. then what?
Go back to living in the drainage tube under the county highway? No thanks, this is Northern Illinois, it can get very chilly here.

(Tater, Do you have a Mother-in-Law Special pass for your incredibly abusive and fatal Haunt?.. just wondering?) Very funny, I laughed long..

[Haunt]

Just my 2 cents. I couldn't help but notice that this topic has gotten much more fact based and much less mean-spirited over the last few days. Awesome! Opinions and emotions are irrelevant. Facts are what's important. I emailed the owner and talked with him before this topic even exploded and it seems to me like the guy Trademarked the names. If you don't want to use the names he Trademarked, then don't. (Just like you can sell a burger made like the Big Mac but can't call it a Big Mac -speaking just specifically about a Trademark, I mean) Am I wrong?

[Howie Slobber Erlich]

I don't think it really matters anymore. The fact is Chris has not responded or defended any of the accusations that have been made in the last few days. He has been exposed as not a truthful person. If I were a haunt that was considering signing up and read this thread, I would run away from it as fast as I could.

Here is another fact. Since my ex business partner & I started the first succesful money back haunt in the nation, don't you think we would still be running it 12 years later if the concept worked over the long hall? When myself and my ex partner split and went our own seperate ways he continued with the money back haunt for a couple more years. I think he would tell you that the idea quicky got old and people got bored with the gimmick. His numbers adjusted back down to good average numbers for our area but never receieved the huge numbers like when the concept was first introduced.

If done correctly ic can boost numbers for a couple years. If that is all you want then go for it. If you want to build your reputaion and grow in the business over the long hall I would stay away from the idea!

Howie

[MoneyBackHaunts.com]

hahahaha

Well, I've tried to be professional and talk with people to try to help explain what my business is all about but I'm not gonna put up with ppl calling out my integrity anymore. So forgive me ahead of time for speaking my mind but here we go...
I decided it wasn't getting anywhere posting on the forum so I took some days off from trying to defend from the "intelligent, fact-finding people on here" . You'll have already proven yourselves so intelligent already. haha. Remember, I'm not even posting on here trying to promote my business, because I have enough smart people who see the benefit of what I'm offering. I'm just trying to make people understand how I've adapted and created something to be hugely successful at a BIG Haunted Attraction, and it can make other Haunters Money. But the jealous, ignorant railbirds have diluted that message and turned it into personal attacks, and these ppl don't even know me. If you did, you would be embarrassed by your actions.

But anyway....

Well, I got a phonecall today saying that people are still talking and I'm getting personally trashed pretty bad by supposed "haunters". I'm not gonna go back and read the 6 pages I've missed but from the phonecall, here's some things to clear up....And I must say AGAIN, I'm not gonna argue with ppl on here. Honestly, It's not worth my time - bluntly, some of you are complete idiots and I wonder if you can put a complete thought together. But as always, you can CALL or email me with any questions. At least then you'd be talking directly to me. SO let me make 1 last post to clear up the clear, childish jealousy, stupidity and ignorance flying around, then I'm done with it....

1. I bought alot of things from a guy in Kentucky that owns a Haunt. I bought half his attraction 4 years ago (and he was very appreciative) because he told me he was downsizing, then getting out of the business the year after. While I was there, he went on and on about this thing he does. He took people 1 at a time into an area and put Toy Snakes and worms on people. I told him it was interesting and "if I could try it at my new haunt." He said "Of Course You Can. In fact, Copy and Use my Waiver straight off my website.". (I'm pretty sure I can find email correspondance backing that up too, plus I had someone else present during the conversation. But again, not worth my time to argue....) Not to mention, I think he even told people in this thread the same thing, to copy and use his waiver...so I don't know what the big deal is. I don't even use his waiver anyway! That would of course be stupid, to copy and paste an important document for your personal use. So I hope no one takes this advice, for their own protection.
THIS WAS AN IDEA THAT WAS VERY PRIMITIVE. I ADAPTED IT, ACTUALLY APPLIED A PROCESS TO IT, AND I MADE IT GOOD, then coupled it with a Marketing Campaign that has made me the top-grossing Haunt in TN. There's a reason I bring in big attendance numbers with what I do, and he doesn't.
I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm tired of this BS. I'VE ADAPTED WHAT I DO FOR MASS-THROUGHPUT, ACTUAL SET, SYSTEMATIC, USE IN A LARGE HAUNTED ATTRACTION with tremendous success. So now I guess people are mad that I not only did what was told to me, but I did a much better job by making it much better....this is too funny. Again, just because you build a chair, and I build a better one, doesn't mean you get credit or (even funnier) compensation. I feel like I'm going in circles here on this forum with ppl...

2. I have the Trademarks. Period. I'm sorry if this bothers you but get over it. And I guarantee you, I will protect them. Is there anyone here that wants to continue arguing this? If so, take it up with the United States Government. Because I'm tired of arguing the correct point and people trying to find ways to outsmart my Nashville Trademark Attorney who also represents big country music labels. Again, too funny. Some of these opinions aren't even based on logic. Geez. Get an Education or at least consult someone who does have one. Any monkey with a computer can check this fact. I don't like exposing people's ignorance but again, I have to apparently, in the name of defending my name.

3. If you have any other insults about me or defamatory things to say, feel free to be a man and call me. This is BS. I've tried to be professional and even courteous but I won't put up with personal attacks from morons hiding behind their computers. These forums have some very good, respectable people that I've had the privilege to meet over the years, but also unfortunately some gutless cowards, emboldened by anonymity, who resort to personal attacks. You can reach me at 1-888-611-7975. Please call and tell me directly what you think so I can expose you for the jealous, stupid, scum you are. And I'll do it nicely, by simply pointing out the facts.

Otherwise, if you actually own a Haunted House (I'm beginning to wonder about some ppl on here ), and think this can help you, give me a call also. I'll help you if I can. Because again, and this is what amazes me...I'm telling you the overall system I've used to become a large-attendance Haunted Attraction. It's not the only way to do things - in fact, my idea isn't for everyone! THERE ARE ALOT OF WAYS TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THIS INDUSTRY! And I learn things every day about this industry! But, I WILL make other haunts money THIS SEASON with my License. And that makes me happy, to see MY IDEA work for others. If you're too stupid to understand that and still think I'm trying to "scam" people, then nothing can help you, and I won't wast my time any longer. And I'm very offended.

Finally, one last point, don't steal my Trademarks. I want to help other haunts within this industry make BIG money with my license, if they feel it would be a good fit for them. I've created this system and I've spent alot of money protecting what I've done LEGALLY and I will enjoy suing each and every punk that tries to steal my Intellectual Property. That is, if you're "haunt' is even noticed enough for me to care - Again, I wonder.... If you're confused with this statement, you better call me so I can explain. Otherwise, you will regret it this Fall. You same people probably download music illegally via filesharing , and buy bootleg DVD's from China. A Registered Trademark is a Registered Trademark and the Court System doesn't look favorably on Trademark Infringement.

This whole thread proves how much MY IDEA WORKS. Take away the jealous, hateful, ignorant attacks and this is the same excitement I see at my Haunt! It gets people talking and is a huge draw! Thank you for everyone for proving the very point of my Business Model.

I also understand this thread gets alot of attention because it's so much easier to criticize someone else's idea than actually grow a pair, and try to create something yourself. So please resist the urge to take the lazy way out. Forgive me, but I'm an innovator. Here's an idea, get off your butt and come up with AN EVEN BETTER IDEA THAN MINE to help this Industry! We are growing and need to continue giving people reasons to come to Haunted Houses. We are here to entertain people! I've done that and am proud of it.

Whew...there I'm done with this thread now. There's probably alot I left out bc I'm not gonna go read everything. I'm sure ppl have bashed me because they don't know me. I appreciate the people that actually DO know me and have taken up for me and called me personally. I have a great idea and am successful with it. I want to share it with others. Period.

We'll let my Licensees success or failure speak for itself after this season on whether I created a GREAT idea or not! I think I have, and want to share it with other markets and transform people's Haunts into a true business for them.

Maybe one day I'll regret not taking the high road and continuing to remain silent on this, but no respectable person would put up with these ridiculous attacks. I'm very proud of what I do in all my dealings in life, especially my Halloween businesses. And my only regret is having to say these truthful, yet possibly insulting, things to clear the air. I'm a nice guy but again, have had enough.

[Deathwing]

At this point it's probably best you not show at Transwold again. Only Larry can get away with calling Haunters idiots lol

But seriously, your idea is not original and not "haunted", and your smug attitude will have Haunters telling you to kick rocks. The people that bought into this Fear Factor concept deserves what they'll get.

Jake