Hard Coating methods...

[spookjj]

Looking to start discussions on hard coating foam, and/or hard coating in general. Has anybody used the stuff from hotwirefoamfactory their foam coating? http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/produc...0&bestseller=Y

I think stucco has be mentioned in coating, a number of drylock recipes, monster mud all used making props but besides usual protectant paints is there anything else? aka, (a)how and what's the best way of preserving foam (b) what not to use on foam (bad experiences), (c) protectants for other made props such as paper mache, monster mud/burlap sacks...etc (which leads me to ask if anyuse used elastomeric stuff for sealing basements and roofs on any props). Alot of question here I know, lastly, (c) I heard Larry saying they used concrete gun on their foam walls at the Darkness... any insight into this?

[terrormasue]

Hey there is this stuff called Styrospray 1000 from Industrial Polymers Corporation Houston Texas 713-943-8451
Great stuff. You can brush this on. I have tried the hard coat from Hot wire Foam factory and I was not real happy with it. Try this, I think you will like it!

Sue

[Allen H]

(a)how and what's the best way of preserving foam
That depends on the use, will it be outdoor, will it be exposed to elements, will it be painted, will guests be able to touch it? All of those conditions may change the treatment for the foam. I like expoxy resins, Bar-kote, vinyl acrylic stucco for most conditions,But im a fan of fiberglass when it has to be outside. I also like liquid nails (thanks Eric! and Chris).


(b) what not to use on foam (bad experiences),
Polyesther resins (with out protecting the foam), and spray paints, truck bedliner material (tried it...didnt do to hot). and the spraymaster jr system- not cost effictive at all.


(c) protectants for other made props such as paper mache, monster mud/burlap sacks...etc (which leads me to ask if any use used elastomeric stuff for sealing basements and roofs on any props). Alot of question here I know, lastly,
I used to use elastomeric on foam, it works as a sealant but not as a protectant. to rubbery I think its texture encourages people to pick at it. liquid nails is good, as is silicone caulking (it comes in black) Fiberglass is still king Im afraid, but I use poly 1512 instead of plaster alot nowadays (get that from bity mold supply).


(c) I heard Larry saying they used concrete gun on their foam walls at the Darkness... any insight into this?
Gunite is the material that is normally sprayed on in that fashion it is a super messy process and verry effective. Skull kingdoms caves were made out of this over a diamond mesh frame and I used to climb on them all the time, tough stuff.
Allen H

[spookjj]

Terrormasue, Allen... thankyou! There's so much information out there and sometimes it gets convoluted for me... The poly 1512 seems like it might be the best overall as it likely gives a harder shell, however, the styrospray 1000 sounds really interesting.

Allen... how is liquid nails used, curious, besides using a putty knife wouldn't think you'd get a nice smooth surface but could see if working for rougher applications. Maybe sometime like self settling polyurethane you could use and apply easier a somewhat stiffer brush... the stuff works great for sealing basement wall and floor and is tough stuff when dried, just wondering. Sure the others will work good....

Allen... you're experitise is second to none, if ever an award to be given you'd get all my votes brother! I know when I ask a question and you chime in, your answers are thorough and always excellant! Thanksman

[Allen H]

Your right liquid nails isint very smooth, but its great for corpse flesh and textured things, I saw it on the heads and hands on haunted overloads site, as well as on this awesome DVD
http://www.monstercloset.com/ get the DVD right now, there is alot of great info in it.

I appreciate the comments also, but they are strong words. Haunting requires a massive amount of skills that you could spend a lifetime figuring out. I dont think Im top of the list on any particular skill or facet of the industry. I do think Id make a few top ten lists on some of those skills and that is an achievment in itself, but always strive to learn and share what youve learned.
Allen H

[spookjj]

yeah, I can now see how liquid nails would give a rough skin texture, can't wait to try it out somtime. Ok, I'll try out the DVD, looks great

and never came across this site before! Thanks

I've been studying the forums for about 2-3 years, quitely I should say... your willingness share and take the time to help others, on top of your diverse knowledge, is very much appreciated. We're planning a haunt for 2012, likely '13 and I can name you, Terra... and few others as that truly keep many going in the right direction. I'm not a young pup and recognize without you guys it would be 10x more difficult ! Kudos

Jim

[Bradenton Haunted Trail]

I used the coating from Hotwire did not like it at all I plan on re coating my castle this summer and then repainting it. Needless to say I will not buy that coating any more. You can go to my web site and see the castle i built and coated. I hate doing things over, but hay now i can add some more details to the castle that i did not have time for last year right.

Shawn
http://bradentonhauntedtrail.com

[zombietoxin]

Far from being an expert at coatings- I can say that I've just tried several kinds and can offer my opinion.

We built our foam carved crypt scene and, of course, needed to hard coat it. After reading, reading and reading then googling my brains out I decided to try the Stryospray 1000 first.

Expensive, but is better than the rest I tried- smells kind of like moldy popcorn until dry. Their instructions are correct- if you are brushing it- no air hood is needed, but if you are hopper gunning in an enclosed space you WILL need a supplied air hood. I pushed the coverage to about 180 sq ft for a two gallon kit and got a very thin coat. But even at the recommended 100-120 sq ft it would probably need a second and possibly third coat to get close to a really idiot-proof hardness. One if its best qualities is that it flows really well and didn't leave any gaps on the foam. If I had tons of money I would have bought more, but I don't so we moved on...

I also bought Synerflex at the same time thinking that I would put the expensive stuff on the walls from the floor up to about 5 feet and then synerflex from there up- being that its cheaper and in low contact areas. Ugh- hated it. I hopper gunned it too and had to wear goggles to keep the sand that was bouncing out of the mix when it hit the wall from getting in my eyes. I finished the pail and walked away one crusty dude. So the dried finish was soft, like others have mentioned, and not terribly durable. I probably got around 180 sq ft with one pail- not far above the recommendation, but it would certainly need one or two more coats before I felt it could withstand even modest traffic. It also does not flow much and left lots of little gaps on the foam. If that was all there was, I guess I would have had to live with it, but...

Then I found Tuff II foundation coating. It's probably not what the experts would use on expensive sets, but I really, REALLY like it! It's similar to Synerflex, but without the sand, it's water based, it doesn't smell, and it gets hard, yet seems plenty flexible! It was slightly less than I paid for the synerflex at $68 per five gallon pail. I used a hopper gun to apply it and had no issues other than it does not flow well either so I had to use extra care when spraying it. In my estimation it beats the rest based on price and hardness. We'll see how it works over the long run.

I suppose the bottom line is that hard coating is subjective in that foam is inherently soft and gives under pressure.

[spookjj]

Good find Zombietoxin! I'm almost at the same point, I have over 100 sheets of styrofoam and need an effective buy yet reasonably priced hardcoating solution. I considered mixed Acryl 60 with some kind of foundation coating, or even with ultracal 30 to see how this worked, but now will look into the Tuff 2 coating.

I'm curious what kinda of fire protectant/ liquids are you using with the foam?

[zombietoxin]

I used FR-1 Paint additive and bought it here: http://www.cleanerupproducts.com/pro...-Additive.html.

FYI the Tuff 2 comes in white and grey color and can be thinned a little with water before using. I found thinning it helped it flow a lot better through the hopper gun. The pic on the left is Tuff 2, the pic on the right is Styrospray 1000. You can see what I was talking about with the material flow. I was able to eliminate the poor flow issue with the Tuff 2 by back-brushing it after spraying, but I didn't like the slick appearance as well as the rough, sprayed look.

Again, since this is my first hard coat, I won't know the real results until Nov 1.

Good luck with yours. I'd love to see your results, whatever you use.