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  • Newbie!!!

    Hello everyone...been following these forums for a little while now & figured I have to jump in sooner or later. Been around this great biz for awhile now. It all started in the late 70's early eighties @ the Brigantine Castle @ the Jersey Shore. Anyone remember that great place? Acted there during high school until the entire pier burnt down. Went on to work at several volunteer haunts over the years along with some pretty elaborate home haunts but I really am looking forward to a "ground up" build. This will be my first run as at professional haunt. I've been a general contractor for 22years and have built & sold various businesses over that time. Now I want to do something I enjoy! One of my "hobbies" includes metal fabrication & have built many custom motorcycles & race cars but I really enjoy designing & building props.

    We are looking to lease a 27,000 square foot space in a "strip center" behind one of the largest malls in a 60 mile radius. We are in a densely populated part of New Jersey with no professional style haunts within 40 miles or so. We would like to operate two fully themed, very detailed attractions under one roof with all que lines & concession area as well. We intend to lease this space year round because of the money & complexity of the build out we want to sign a 5 year lease. We have an offer to the mall operators of $3.00 per square foot with a .50 cent per foot increase each year. What we wanted to ask an opinion on is - does that sound about right for leasing prices? This building has been closed for about 10 years but it is in great shape & it does have a full sprinkler system.

    Being in the building biz for so long (I don't know if that's good or bad anymore...lol) I have good working relationships with all the inspectors & I am VERY familiar how to approach them. I am well versed with all the rigid requirements (which I am on board with most) and have a near genius friend who handles all our sophisticated wiring, sound & fogging systems & animatronics. We plan on having several large "interactive" props (of course in NJ their called "Amusements!) that should be worth the admission price alone. The designs for these "props" has to be approved by a licensed engineer & inspected by a NJ DCA inspector prior to using each season. We feel the cost to bring these types of "props" to our customers is well worth it...hopefully they will be blown away. Rather than gore, we are more into what naturally scares people...heights, elevators, claustrophobia, etc. and I think we have the right "wrinkles" on some classic ideas.

    We're going to start with a $30,000. marketing budget this year. I have been in talks with several sponsors & luckily I'm close friends with a billboard operator & a popular morning show DJ...so we'll being getting some decent discounts. We will be located approximately 5 miles outside of Atlantic City and a short distance to all the popular tourist towns...Wildwood, Ocean City, etc. We were thinking (although probably not this year) to possibly doing some heavy advertising in those shore tourist spots with those millions of tourist in the summer and opening during August. Any opinions on that? I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on trying something like that.

    Lastly, we were thinking of charging $13.00 per attraction or $24.00 for a combo ticket. The attractions should be about 8,000' - 9,000' sq. ft. and very detailed. We estimate about a 15-18 minute "walk-thru" time. We would like any opinions on our pricing...too high...too low...whatever. Although this is a "for profit" haunt we do intend to donate about $1.00 per ticket to the local homeless shelter, one of our favorite charities because there are NO paid positions there...every dollar goes to help the homeless.

    Sorry for the long thread...guess I've had all this bottled up for so long! lol Appreciate any thoughts on any matters on opening a new haunt. Glad to finally be a part of the "community".
    Jim Pashley
    The FEAR FACTORY
    www.thefearfactorynj.com
    855-NJ HAUNT
    sigpic
    "WE MANUFACTURE NIGHTMARES"

  • #2
    Originally posted by pickle View Post
    Hello everyone
    Welcome to the forum. You've picked an interesting screen-name. Is there a story behind it?

    C.

    Comment


    • #3
      LOL nah...well @ least nothing I can get into here! LOL I might have to change up that screen name in the future.
      Jim Pashley
      The FEAR FACTORY
      www.thefearfactorynj.com
      855-NJ HAUNT
      sigpic
      "WE MANUFACTURE NIGHTMARES"

      Comment


      • #4
        Welcome!

        Welcome to the fourms!

        Fright
        Chris Riehl
        Sales@spookyfinder.com
        (586)209-6935
        www.spookyfinder.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pickle View Post
          Appreciate any thoughts on any matters on opening a new haunt.
          Calling Dr. Hopps . . . Dr. Allen Hopps . . . Calling Dr. Chrise . . . Dr. Greg Chrise . . .

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Pickel! Good luck with your attraction! I hope that it works out for you! I've just got a couple questions. You say the building is around 27k sq ft and that the attraction will be around 8k. How many attractions were you putting in there and were you making sure to leave enough room for backstage areas like a workshop, makeup rooms, costuming, ticket sales, administration, etc... I was recently looking at a building with around 26k and each themed section I was designing was around 8k also. So just curious to know a little bit more about your plans for the layout. As far as price, I think that depends on what the local area is willing to pay, the quality of the haunt, and your operating cost being covered by the price of the tickets. If your a high quality haunt with a great scare team that's around 15k sq ft scare floor, then I think anywhere between $13 - $16 is fair. But like I said, it depends on what your local area is willing to pay.
            News and event coverage from directly inside the Haunt Industry - http://www.hauntersdigest.com
            Get a Website and/or Mobile App for Your Attraction - http://www.charlesterry.com

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm not seeing anything noobified in anything described so far.

              I have paid $23 something for one attraction: Check
              Enroute or on the rebound to the many board walks: Check
              Construction experience: Check
              Tweak on staff: Check
              Advertising budget: Check
              Know what rent is: Check

              In the bigger picture, I would want to see maybe some year round action or summer season as the coast has a season and that is when the people are flying by. Not just October when the boardwalks are a ghost town. Some grande facade work and a road side attraction vibe.

              No mention of what the themes of the two haunts would be. What type of customers to expect. Boardwalk travelers are the customers, casino goers are on a one track mind thing.

              I'm wondering if two haunts and two themes might actually confuse the we'll stop by because it won't take that long and it will be fun thing. Or if it can be seasonally converted to two attractions in October and one haunt run in Summer only? This might help how much it costs for actors off season. The rent sounds kind of high but on the back end for where it is located, anything less might seem to a land owner that it could do more. It is going to take some serious spectacle to earn several times the rent money. Working two seasons might make up for that?
              sigpic

              Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.

              Comment


              • #8
                By summer season I'm thinking May June July. Skip August September then open October after sweeping up abit.
                sigpic

                Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Greg Chrise View Post
                  By summer season I'm thinking May June July. Skip August September then open October after sweeping up abit.
                  Boardwalk funhouse type thing? Triangular Mirror Maze?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey C,
                    Thanks for your reply. What I meant to say is each attraction would be around 8,000' - 9,000' sq. ft. So yes the other 10,000' sq.ft or so is for ticket sales, administration, costuming & make-up, concession area, que lines. Myself & my crew are very detailed oriented...both attractions will be of the highest quality. And when I said "walk-thru time I meant each attraction should take 15-18+ minutes. I think this area can easily handle $13. each or $24. combo pricing. Thanks again for your reply.

                    P.



                    Greg,
                    Thanks for your reply. Maybe I didn't explain the location quite right. We are not ON the boardwalk but about 5 miles outside of Atlantic City, 7 miles outside Ocean City & about 30 miles from Wildwood...our three largest shore tourist towns. While Ocean City & Wildwood are mostly made up of families, teens & twenty somethings coming to the shore for family entertainment, Atlantic City is a whole different animal. We weren't really thinking AC type tourist, we were shooting for the demographics in the other tourist towns. As I said it is behind the Mall so it will take so marketing to get them to drive from the boardwalk...but living here my entire life I think when families are here for 7-10 days they look to actually do something "different" than the boards every night. As far as the seasons you brought up, the reason I was thinking August weekends was that is our areas highest concentration of tourist...and those who spent the entire summer here are REALLY looking for something different to do by then. I do like your idea about combining the attractions in the "off" season. I thought if we did operate in August it would kind of be a mini training session for some of the actors to hone their skills.

                    We do however plan a grand facade...I believe that IS the "first impression" & sets the tone for the customer. We also plan on making our concession area & indoor que lines very detailed & themed to match the facade. The two attractions would be separated by the concession area and have their own facades to match their own themes. We have worked on designs for several themes but I think we are really leaning towards a warehouse basement/boiler room theme with my own version of a "hellavator" and a cavern/catacomb type theme with realistic rock work. We are still kicking around a few others but I like the two I've mentioned. Open to all suggestions though and thanks again for your replies.

                    P.





                    C,

                    Yeah, we thought about some type of boardwalk fun house...was actually on the drawing board a while but the other themes got more votes! Maybe down the road we'll do a whole haunted boardwalk theme? But we are sure going to try & get the Jersey Devil in there somewhere! Thanks again for your thoughts.

                    P.
                    Jim Pashley
                    The FEAR FACTORY
                    www.thefearfactorynj.com
                    855-NJ HAUNT
                    sigpic
                    "WE MANUFACTURE NIGHTMARES"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pickle View Post
                      I think we are really leaning towards a warehouse basement/boiler room theme with my own version of a "hellavator" and a cavern/catacomb type theme with realistic rock work.
                      Boiler rooms and catacombs aren't really "themes". They are more like "settings" or "ideas for set design", but they aren't "themes". And that's fine if that is the beginning of your inspiration, or perhaps part of the "motif" you wish to capture, but eventually in the design process you are going to need to nail down a theme in terms of what you guys will be doing; or two, as the case may be, if you are doing two separate houses.

                      A theme is a specific genre or sub-genre which helps you make key design decisions early in the process, and gives the audience a context in which to work, in terms of what to expect.

                      For instance, what kinds of monsters do you want to live in the world you create? What happened in this space? What's it's backstory? Stephen King once said that a place can't be haunted unless it has a history. What is the history of this place?

                      If you want to have boiler rooms, warehouse basements, and cavernous catacombs, that's great, but what's happening in them? Any number of themes could include all those design elements, but what's the story?

                      For instance . . .
                      • Insane Asylum: on the upper floors, everything looks proper and probably passes state inspection on a regular basis, but in the basement and/or lower levels, terrible experiments take place (ref: Arkham Asylum from Batman Begins).
                      • Hospital: like above, only in this scenario, in a hospital that specializes in body part transplants, the doctors get an unlimited supply of body parts from the undead bodies of catatonic demons who are buried in the catacombs below.
                      • Circus: when not traveling, this demon circus hibernates in catacombs beneath a warehouse, accessible only thru secret passages in the basement. The circus equipment is stored in the warehouse.
                      • Were-beasts: an evil corporation is developing a serum to turn humans into were-beasts for a military contract to breed super-warriors. This happens in the secret labs in the basement of the corporate headquarters, or perhaps a remote warehouse location.
                      • Alien Invasion: either a) the last humans on Earth are trying to survive by hiding in deep catacombs, or b) the catacombs are actually hives the aliens created (ref: James Cameron's Aliens).
                      • Zombie Apocalypse: in this setting, it practically writes itself. (See "a)" above.)
                      • Victorian Manor: interesting opportunity to try out some steampunk ideas (given the boiler room setting, and whatnot; ref: Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes series).


                      Those are actual themes, and ways that they can work with set ideas such as a warehouse basement, boiler room, cavern, or catacomb setting. I'd hesitate to call those set ideas "motifs", because usually a "motif" is much more operative, modal, or causal in the design process.

                      Also, another critical thing is that whatever theme you choose should have naturally occurring fears or phobias built into it, vs. something that you have to go out of your way to manufacture, fear or phobia-wise. For instance, vampires aren't terribly scary these days and don't make for a really good theme because they don't tap into any naturally occurring fears, beyond perhaps xenophobia or "the fear of strangers" (which, incidentally, zombies own, hands down . . . that's the driving fear behind zombies, along with demophobia or "the fear of crowds").

                      Now, vampires can make a great "motif", and would work wonderfully with any of those themes listed above, but without a driving fear being incorporated into the overall production, you will be fighting an uphill battle. Remember, vampires are hot, and popular, but for all the wrong reasons as far as we are concerned. Thanks to Stephenie Meyer, vampires are no longer evil blood-sucking demons who steal innocent, sleeping newborns in the dead of the night to feed to their hellspawn succubus brides as a midnight snack. Instead , they are gorgeous, pouty lipped male models with glittering skin who are hopelessly romantic and eternally devoted to their human soulmates. The only fear I see them generating these days is in the boyfriends of the girls who attend your haunt in that their girlfriends will want to trade-up.

                      All of those listed themes have built in fears or phobias, or potentially frightening scenarios that lend themselves very easily to them.

                      More later.

                      C.
                      Last edited by BrotherMysterio; 06-03-2012, 12:49 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BrotherMysterio View Post
                        Boiler rooms and catacombs aren't really "themes". They are more like "settings" or "ideas for set design", but they aren't "themes". And that's fine if that is the beginning of your inspiration, or perhaps part of the "motif" you wish to capture, but eventually in the design process you are going to need to nail down a theme in terms of what you guys will be doing; or two, as the case may be, if you are doing two separate houses.

                        A theme is a specific genre or sub-genre which helps you make key design decisions early in the process, and gives the audience a context in which to work, in terms of what to expect.

                        For instance, what kinds of monsters do you want to live in the world you create? What happened in this space? What's it's backstory? Stephen King once said that a place can't be haunted unless it has a history. What is the history of this place?

                        If you want to have boiler rooms, warehouse basements, and cavernous catacombs, that's great, but what's happening in them? Any number of themes could include all those design elements, but what's the story?

                        For instance . . .
                        • Insane Asylum: on the upper floors, everything looks proper and probably passes state inspection on a regular basis, but in the basement and/or lower levels, terrible experiments take place (ref: Arkham Asylum from Batman Begins).
                        • Hospital: like above, only in this scenario, in a hospital that specializes in body part transplants, the doctors get an unlimited supply of body parts from the undead bodies of catatonic demons who are buried in the catacombs below.
                        • Circus: when not traveling, this demon circus hibernates in catacombs beneath a warehouse, accessible only thru secret passages in the basement. The circus equipment is stored in the warehouse.
                        • Were-beasts: an evil corporation is developing a serum to turn humans into were-beasts for a military contract to breed super-warriors. This happens in the secret labs in the basement of the corporate headquarters, or perhaps a remote warehouse location.
                        • Zombie Apocalypse: in this setting, it practically writes itself.
                        • Alien Invasion: either a) the last humans on Earth are trying to survive by hiding in deep catacombs, or b) the catacombs are actually hives the aliens created (ref: James Cameron's Aliens).
                        • Victorian Manor: interesting opportunity to try out some steampunk ideas (given the boiler room setting, and whatnot; ref: Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes series).


                        Those are actual themes, and ways that they can work with set ideas such as a warehouse basement, boiler room, cavern, or catacomb setting. I'd hesitate to call those set ideas "motifs", because usually a "motif" is much more operative or causal in the design process.

                        Also, another critical thing is that whatever theme you choose should have naturally occurring fears or phobias built into it, vs. something that you have to go out of your way to manufacture, fear or phobia-wise. For instance, vampires aren't terribly scary these days and don't make for a really good theme because they don't tap into any naturally occurring fears, beyond perhaps xenophobia or "the fear of strangers" (which, incidentally, zombies own, hands down . . . that's the driving fear behind zombies).

                        Now, vampires can make a great "motif", and would work wonderfully with any of those themes listed above, but without a driving fear being incorporated into the overall production, you will be fighting an uphill battle. Remember, vampires are hot, and popular, but for all the wrong reasons as far as we are concerned. Thanks to Stephenie Meyer, vampires are no longer evil blood-sucking demons who steal innocent, sleeping newborns in the dead of the night to feed to their hellspawn succubus brides as a midnight snack. Instead , they are gorgeous, pouty lipped male models with glittering skin who are hopelessly romantic and eternally devoted to their human soulmates. The only fear I see them generating these days is in the boyfriends of the girls who attend your haunt that the their girlfriends will want to trade-up.

                        All of those listed themes have built in fears or phobias, or potentially frightening scenarios that lend themselves very easily to them.

                        More later.

                        C.
                        Hey C,

                        WOOOW! Love the details...that'll help us finalize our "Themes". Appreciate the time & thought you put into that reply. We're working on a "history" or "story line" and work our settings around those. Thanks again.
                        Jim Pashley
                        The FEAR FACTORY
                        www.thefearfactorynj.com
                        855-NJ HAUNT
                        sigpic
                        "WE MANUFACTURE NIGHTMARES"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pickle View Post
                          Hey C,

                          WOOOW! Love the details...that'll help us finalize our "Themes". Appreciate the time & thought you put into that reply. We're working on a "history" or "story line" and work our settings around those. Thanks again.
                          Excellent! Glad to be of service. Incidentally, what did you have in mind? You mentioned a "hellavator". Am I correct in surmising that maybe it's a bit of a Dante's Inferno type thing, with what evil is lurking beneath?

                          Also, what kind of monsters were you going to include?

                          C.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BrotherMysterio View Post
                            Excellent! Glad to be of service. Incidentally, what did you have in mind? You mentioned a "hellavator". Am I correct in surmising that maybe it's a bit of a Dante's Inferno type thing, with what evil is lurking beneath?

                            Also, what kind of monsters were you going to include?

                            C.
                            I'm thinking something along the lines of "mutants in the basement", an actual shallow bubbling green pool, boiler room, loading docks, steam pipe area, etc. In the other side still a little on the fence...was leaning towards "zombies" in the catacombs with actual "shot-crete" walls and stalagmites (I spell that right? lol) Then again, I keep going back to some sort of mine shaft setting? Any ideas?

                            P.
                            Jim Pashley
                            The FEAR FACTORY
                            www.thefearfactorynj.com
                            855-NJ HAUNT
                            sigpic
                            "WE MANUFACTURE NIGHTMARES"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I Guess That "theme" Stuff Can Be tricky?

                              I must be a real lazy person because I just bought a haunted house to make it into my Haunted House.
                              "Don't buy that house!"
                              "You shouldn't buy that house!" Said numerous elderly citizens of Mount Carroll, Illinois.
                              "Why not?"
                              "Because... IT'S HAUNTED! They warned me..
                              The wine cellar below the basement doesn't really need much "work" on my part, it is a scary looking room, a huge stone-arched ceiling, solid rock floor, not exactly a common piece of urban or rural architecture that most will feel comfortable being surrounded by.
                              It does have an anti-gravity ceiling!
                              "What keeps those big rocks from hitting us and killing us?"
                              "Gravity".
                              I have always tried to Not copy other haunt's ideas.
                              This house is full of my own artwork and devices . Anybody else's "Monsters" don't play here, I have my own in a bun Dance! hahah!
                              Some of the things I do here to scare or entertain others have evolved over many years of adjusting everything from wording, lighting,or just the timing of the actions I do.
                              I am fortunate enough to have some October actors who can be handed a very mundane script of mere information and using their voice(s) and a odd sense of timing can have 15 strangers all laughing at something that has been said the same way here for a decade or two!
                              hauntedravensgrin.com

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