Change name?

[son-of-sam]

greg

Can you please elaborate on the subject? Maybe its a wise crack but if it is hate thats what makes the under dog great and if not maybe this is another reply that I took wrong. Thats why I want to make sure this time that someone is taking a sucker punch prior to saying anything.

[Greg Chrise]

This is obviously a joke, Allen suggested going earlier in the Alphabet for haunt listings. How much in front can you be, like in the Yellow Pages?

Of course Allen is absolutely right in suggesting that. Yes, decades of doing this and I'm still trying to get Aardvark in a haunt name somehow.

[son-of-sam]

not that

If I made a comment on how affordable your haunt was that would not bother you at all? I will not set my show up under the terms affordable and be proud if I did not do everything possible to make my show the best. Larrys show costed him more then the average house costs ten folds and if you went to him and told him his shows were ''affordable'' you do not think it would bother him just a little? Every one wants me to settle down but let me call your show cheap another term for affordable and see if that does not light a fire.

[BrotherMysterio]

If I made a comment on how affordable your haunt was that would not bother you at all? I will not set my show up under the terms affordable and be proud if I did not do everything possible to make my show the best. Larrys show costed him more then the average house costs ten folds and if you went to him and told him his shows were ''affordable'' you do not think it would bother him just a little? Every one wants me to settle down but let me call your show cheap another term for affordable and see if that does not light a fire.

Dude, hold up. Greg wasn't saying that you had some cheapo rinky-dink haunt (and neither was I). He was making a dumb joke about trying to push the haunt name as deep into the A's as possible. Out Greg's way, you have a lot of people with insurance companies using names like "AAA Affordable Insurance" and stuff like that cuz, apart from playing on the whole affordable angle thing, they also want to show up near the beginning of the "A's", hoping that when people check the yellow pages or phone directory and see their ad, that customers will call them and not go any further in the listings. It's the same idea with trying to get top rankings in Google when people search on a "buying keyword term" and all that. That's where that joke came from. That and the bit about the "Aardvark". Believe me, Greg is the type of guy who will actually put a were-aardvark into a haunt, but the other thing is that with two A's in the beginning of the word Aardvark, it's right near the beginning.

Actually, quite the opposite, if you want to learn how to do something cost-effectively, then Greg is one of the go-to guys, along with Allen Hopps, and Jim Warfield as well. They are the last guys on Earth to tell you to whip out your credit card and charge 100's of thousands of dollars on bright and shiny toys. They are all about making things as cost effective as possible. I decidedly fall into that camp as well. In fact, when Allen has one of his Gatherings, which Greg and I have gone to (along with about 80 other haunters), he does about 12 hours of workshops showing how to do thousands of dollars worth of props and special effects and make-up and you name it, all for pennies, and have it look amazing. That's why Allen's videos are so popular. It's also why he teaches so many darn classes at the conventions. Amazing haunt stuff with maximum utilization of resources. That was also something that the late, great JB Corn advocated as well. Real do-it-yourselfer type stuff.

And, frankly, if someone talked about my haunt methods as being "affordable" (or even cheap, or free for that matter), believe me, for me that would be high praise indeed, and I would consider myself honored and in very good company. People like Allen Hopps, Jim Warfield, Greg Chrise, JB Corn, and a whole slew of others; people whom I could only hope to be half as good as; that's what they do. If I can do everything as cost-effectively as possible, like they do, then that allows me the luxury of putting money, time, and resources towards something that gets special attention. It also allows me lots of flexibility in research and development, which is really exciting to me.

For instance, right now I'm working on a strobe circuit to make a strobe light for $4 that will never burn out and, hopefully, rival the performance of a $40 commercially available strobe. (We're talking super bright!) The whole strobe will also be about the size of a playing card or drivers license, and can be built into a wall panel, meaning that you can put them anywhere and they can't get stolen. It will also only run on 12v, so I won't have to worry about any compliance issues. And once this strobe circuit works, I'll be able to do different colored strobes, or UV strobes, and so on, all for pennies. After that, the next stop on the haunt lighting parade is doing Allen's LED minispots, which cost less than a dollar a piece, and you can put 4-5 in a scene and have it look magnificent.

At Allen's last Gathering, he showed us how to make an army of zombies for about $20-$30 in materials and chemicals, plus cheap, salvaged clothes. I know, cuz I helped. He showed us how he would make up a mold with modeling clay of bones and intestines and all that good stuff, and then pull upwards of 20-30 latex pulls from it, and make basic costume plates, that anyone of them would cost $30-$40 a pop thru a vendor, and we were doing them for pennies. Seriously. Then, he breaks out a suit he got for, what, $5 from Good-Will? He then gets a canister of silicone caulk which is a buck or two, mixes it with another household agent to melt it, adds some black pigment, and uses that as zombie juice on the suit, followed by some leaves and twigs for good measure, and then airbrushes some dirt stains on it. Add the bones and guts hanging out with the appropriate airbrush paint job, and you have a zombie costume for some $20 a pop, that would normally cost hundreds of dollars. And least you think that Allen just does cheap crap that any sensible person would scoff at, when he does his high-end mask and costume lines, he uses similarly innovative methodologies, and sells his masks at shows for $80-$100 at his booths at the conventions, and his costumes for a lot more. What's more, he usually sells out. That's why people pack in to his workshops.

You mentioned keeping it real. Believe me, people like Allen and the others I've mentioned keep it real. I can only hope to be as good as they are.

C.

[BrotherMysterio]

Alrighty then . . .

Well, I just got a bizarre PM about not having a heart and hiding my guilty hands and not making it on the mean streets or whatever that was about, so, here is my original response I was going to put up. I felt it only appropriate to bow out of this exchange as gracefully as I can, before someone invokes the haunt equivalent of "Godwin's Law" or something.

Incidentally, I'm not sure what the whole "egging on" thing was about. As you'll see from the response below, I was trying to come up with an "A____ A____" haunt name in connection to the original question of changing a haunt's name to something else, and what to change it to. The "Abyss" bit was a nice touch, and I also thought of "Anarchy". Ergo, those two suggestions I listed, with "Abyss Asylum" and "Anarchy Asylum". As to "egging Greg on", seriously, does Greg look like the kind of guy who really needs "egging on"? He's got "crazy" nailed down all by himself. I usually just break out the popcorn, sit back, and watch the show. Anyone who knows Greg knows what I am talking about.

So, anyway, with all that said, I humbly submit what follows, with all good intentions and best wishes, and I'll leave it at that . . .

*********

Subject: Dude, I totally did not mean to sound like a d*ck and that was not my intention . . .

Text: I tend to be very thorough in my answers, and your question about a "name change" was, to me, a bit of a sleeping giant. One of those questions that has a lot going on inside of it.

As for judging you, or calling you a "yuppie haunter", I can assure you, I wasn't, nor would I intend to. Quite the opposite, I see you as something of a champion, taking on an incredible challenge, and was even applauding your efforts. I was the one who, in your "Going Mad" thread, said "Keep the Faith, Brother". I can assure you, I meant it.

As for the "dream haunter" stuff, well, I can assure you, in your allusion to MLK Jr, many of his contemporaries also had a dream, but he was also a man of action. I applaud people like him, and people like you, who are willing to risk something to take action, and have the courage to deal with the consequences, and, especially in your case, put their money where their mouth is. If you weren't willing to deal with those challenges, and consequences, you wouldn't have posted that "Going Mad" thread, because you wouldn't have been willing to risk anything. As it is, you didn't just dare to dream, you dared to act. That takes courage and guts, which you have.

Truth be told, elements of a private conversation I've been having with several members on here sort of bled over into the post, and for that I apologize. In all truthfulness, I don't really write my own replies . . . they come from that weird place that artists talk about when in the creative mindset. Being a creative type yourself, I'm sure you can relate. In a few moments or spots, I think I might have been "thinking aloud" on those points, and I think I was probably bit ambiguous in my comments. So, in that regard, I am totally sorry for my faux pas. In retrospect I can definitely see how it could sound really negative . . . especially with you hearing how harsh some forum members can be. I try to be honest, but I don't like being harsh, or sounding harsh, and I am seriously sorry if that was the result. Big "no-no" on my part.

As for everything else, I was trying to be as dead on as I could. All those questions weren't and aren't rhetorical. They were important, especially since as Allen astutely pointed out, you do have a good haunt name, and I think it is a strong name you can build on. If there were some critical voices in the past in regard to that name, well, everyone these days seems to be a critic, whether justified or not (if in doubt on that point, just visit rottentomatoes.com sometime. *yikes*). If the name is totally not salvageable, then perhaps it is time to change it, but, actually, there is an easier way to do it, and move into the A's while you're at it. Keep the name Dungeon of Terror, treat it like the name of your production company, and then add "A_____ Asylum" to the front of it, like Arkham Asylum, or Azagoth Asylum, or perhaps Aleister Asylum (like Aleister Crowley). You get the idea.

That way, you get the name recognition of the fans from previous seasons, but you can also mix it up just enough to perhaps shake off any previous bad press, and also move to the front of the line in the social event pages, which also can be free marketing. Not only that, Asylums and Dungeons (of Terror) are often flip-sides of the same coin, and what's more, the clinical setting brings plenty of phobias with it. You list it as "A_____ Asylum by Dungeon of Terror" in the social pages, and then at the event it's Dungeon of Terror's A_____ Asylum, or something like that.

Incidentally, your Devil's Rejects motif is an excellent one, and the whole FBI style "fresh crime scene" brings a visceral vibrancy to it which can be very strong. Plus, it's dirt cheap set dressing to put $6 police tape all over the place, and looks great!

Anyway, again, totally did not mean to sound like a d*ck, and I wish you only the best in what you are doing.

*********

So, anyway, on that note, again, keep the faith, brothers and sisters, and good luck to all good people.

C.

[Frightener]

I'm opening my first year as "pro" this year. I've been on this forum a while now, where as I feel I should add my $.05 worth.

1. I totally agree with Allen, both on context of posts and name changing.

2. I don't know what's going on behind the curtains, but what I'm seeing, and I'll be the first to admit, I may be missing something, but looks like every time someone tries to help you out, you take every chance to get defensive. My wife was reading and she was thinking the same thing, so I know it's not just my mind.

3. NOT A SINGLE PERSON HERE, in this forum, would I believe to be "out to get" anyone. These are some of the same folks that have helped me out every time I needed it. The point is, everyone posting in this thread has been the epitome of what a good forum resident is. They're mostly all respectable gentlemen that's contributed much more than you give them credit for. I think you should take some time to think about what they're saying.

Lastly, when you get on here, with less than 10 posts talking about the purchase of a haunted attraction you have to understand, when these guys talk about particular points, it's kinda obvious that they don't know your background, your history or capability. So the answers may come with the appearance of being aimed at a noob. (we call ourselves 'noob' int he gaming world) There are points that they're going to say that needs to be made clear, like the "home haunter going pro" or w/e. All you had to do was just nicely let them know you have more of an idea about what's going on than what they may be expecting. Not crashing in with insults.


These guys are here to help you. They have to get to know you, they don't know anything about you or your capabilities so you have to work with them so they DO know. Widdle it down, shape it into the relationship it needs to be, then all the juices get flowing and you're all on the same page. THIS has to happen to everyone new to the board.

Thanks for reading my thoughts and good luck with your venture.

Dewayne

[mindtumor]

If you ask a question on here and then get confrontational with each reply, people will just stop responding to your posts on here very quickly. Nobody on here insulted you, you appear to be looking for something that isn't there. Relax, go have a lemonade, then reread with a clear head.

If you like the name, keep it. You have four years of a track record there so your going to get some sort of an audience. Personally, I would change it to make it my own, but that might not be the best move.

What you might want to do is keep the name, see how it works for you and then use that information to make an informed decision the following season.

[son-of-sam]

MY bad

It was my fault for taking the hole affordable thing out of context. The name was just so silly that I took it as an insult. I should of took it as more of a joke then him being serious. MY bad

[BrotherMysterio]

It was my fault for taking the hole affordable thing out of context. The name was just so silly that I took it as an insult. I should of took it as more of a joke then him being serious. MY bad

No worries. It's all good.

C.

[Spookyfinder]

you want to give good advice? Ask alot of questions!

I have been working, managing and coaching people for years. First off, advice is hard to give in writing. Just like emails can misinterpreted due to not being able to hear ones tone. Giving advice on a forum can come off the same way. Best way to give advice it to first ask as many open ended questions that you can to learn as much about the persons issue as possible. Then ask more questions! Most of the time, your advice will come out in the questions.

This is a hard industry to be in. Unless you have a large budget and even larger facility, you are most likely doing it as a second job and using money from your first job to feed it. Most haunts arent even profitable if the owners were to truly take a salary, but we do it any way. Why? because we love it. I love catching that first group with a new scare. Watching grown men cry and pee themselves. Hearing people say how much they loved it. Thats what makes me do it.

I have been lucky to receive good advice from many people over the last 15 years. That advice, sometimes good sometimes bad, helped me so much. I guess what I am trying to say is take it all with a grain of salt, but take it all.

Thanks
Jim

[mrfoos]

Hope I'm not extending this off topic too much

As a newer member of these forums I can related with son-of-sam. Some of the guys on here can be a little confrontational. I've pretty much only answered two questions and both times I answered directly with experience on something I was business-successful at... not just an opinion. Both times I was kind of insulted, once being called a "fly by night scammer" and the other a naive youth although I'll take the youthful reference since I'm 40

It does make me think twice before trying to help anyone else or express an opinion. I don't really take it personal because I know it wasn't meant to be but it DOES take away the fun of feeling like I'm are part of a helpful community – which I know this forum is ultimately.

I congratulate the forum owner for letting the discussion finish out. There are many forums that would have simply closed or deleted the thread or banned the user on first sign of dissatisfaction.

With that said, I will give my opinion. :P

OPINION ONLY:
I'm in a marketing profession. Personally, I think small business owners get overloaded with marketing advice meant for the "big guys". Name and branding isn't going to be as important to the success of small business as it is to a national corporation that spends millions on advertising. Locally it's more about your service and the reputation you build with your customers.

Does the name have a reputation? And is it good? If either are no then I'd change it. If keeping the name means a guaranteed customer base, I'd probably keep it.

Thanks for listening!

[BigT]

Now that I'm relaxed .....

Let me put on my marketing hat for a minute (its what i do in the daytime). The name of your attraction is your brand. I am going to assume that the name is decent since it obviously has been around a few years and you dont have churches and Chamber of Commerce officials burning banners in your yard.

Once a company puts out their name, its all about the branding around that name. The logo, the website, your business cards, advertising, everything becomes your brand. You are actually better off keeping even a bad name and changing the branding around it to show the attraction has changed.

I ahve worked with companies that have been around for years, and when it comes time to refresh the company image, we go on major rebranding exercises where we slap on some new paint, update the logo, and freshen up our advertising to give it a new and younger look!

Hope that helps and good luck!

[BrotherMysterio]

Btw, is this the haunt in question? It seems to be getting pretty good props. I suppose that's a good start. I'd take that any day.



C.

[Darkangel]

It doesnt sound too scary.... Tour guides??? Haven't seen that in a long time as well.

DA

[BrotherMysterio]

It doesnt sound too scary.... Tour guides??? Haven't seen that in a long time as well.

DA

Oops, might have missed that bit near the end. Well, I imagine that that is one of the first changes that SOS will make. I had a similar experience at one haunt I did. The lady put in charge of it thought that they would need guides - even "silent" ones - but fortunately we lucked out in that about 9 actors that were supposed to show up didn't. Ergo, not enough people for guides, and, amazingly, everything still went smoothly.

I'm sure SOS has some cool goodies planned for the new version of DOT.

C.