Change name?

[Jim Warfield]

I am leaving it to others.

So many times some one would come on asking basic questions, pleading for help, I would spend too much time typing them numerous answers, sending them a personal e-mail only to find that some of these questioners had totally misrepresented themselves and admitted privately to me that I had just wasted MY TIME because they were several steps up the haunt -experience ladder than they were pretending to be, so Scratch Jim's honest effort into the cat-crap pile!
For any noobies looking for answers just look through the old posts here or on other sites because most of the answers are not becoming obsolete very quickly.
One point to remember:Nobody knows it ALL.
Second point to remember:There are many definitions of "Success" and in haunting it can run from the common coins left for you in the bag, to scaring someone and enjoying their reaction, to having a beautiful, intelligent woman give you a genuine and serious conpliment .
Passing up the "Stockholm Syndrome" thing of having numerous females pretend to like you because they are in fear for their life, is a good idea, don't go "there".(Uncomplicate your life, personal and private.)

[son-of-sam]

Point taken

I could not watch what BM posted on the haunt because for some strange reason it only comes up white on my computer. I am definitely not having any guides in the haunt like the last owners did. Thank you all for the time you took to post your feelings on the topic. The old owners said they had guides because they were scared of people breaking there stuff so it was more to watch them then to guide them. BM is right on I have a HOLE bunch of renovations that I did to the haunt and it will be ten times more gory and vile then DOT ever has been. I have added ten new pneumatic props and about 3k worth of lighting and a hole sloop of other static props plus custom made silicone masks. I am pretty sure I seen the video if its those two critics[ I dont remember there names]. Again thank you all and I hope EVERYONE has a record breaking season

[BrotherMysterio]

I could not watch what BM posted on the haunt because for some strange reason it only comes up white on my computer. I am definitely not having any guides in the haunt like the last owners did. Thank you all for the time you took to post your feelings on the topic. The old owners said they had guides because they were scared of people breaking there stuff so it was more to watch them then to guide them. BM is right on I have a HOLE bunch of renovations that I did to the haunt and it will be ten times more gory and vile then DOT ever has been. I have added ten new pneumatic props and about 3k worth of lighting and a hole sloop of other static props plus custom made silicone masks. I am pretty sure I seen the video if its those two critics[ I dont remember there names]. Again thank you all and I hope EVERYONE has a record breaking season

Yeah, basically two guys giving DOT props for being a good starter haunt, which isn't bad, per se, but I'm sure you'll be taking it to the next level (or even the level after that). It will be interesting to see how it progresses, and how you really ramp it up.

As far as the guides go, that was precisely what the lady in charge of that last haunt was worried about, namely, damage to the haunt. Well, we are not daintily touring people thru a tea room or an antique mall. We're doing haunts, where people are getting the crap scared out of them. It's supposed to be high impact. If people aren't blasting into walls a bit from being scared, then I'm not sure that we are doing our jobs. One of the scariest rooms in Castle Dragon had the record for the most damage, including four teenagers being so scared that they fell to the floor, and collapsed the floor. Now that's an effective room!

C.

[son-of-sam]

Wow

The floor giving out[look out below] is when you know for sure your doing your job. I feel the same way that it costs to be the boss and collateral damage is something to be expected with any type of biz that provides entertainment.

[Jim Warfield]

Wait A Minute!

If a floor collapsed under the impact of just 4 teenagers... that floor must have been built very flimsey! Dangerously flimsey.
People get hurt when floors give way. What were the extent of their injuries? Broken bones? Chipped teeth?
Not an ounce of "Good Times" or humor found in such accidents as far as I can determine.
Did the floor fall a few inches or ten feet? If it falls at an angle then sideway impacting forces could potentually cause abrasions as skin makes contact with the non-moving wall surfaces surrounding the floor.

As far as having "Guides" in a haunt, think about it... what could be a safer way to run a haunt? Real human eyes and ears and a body to protect people and objects from damage, to see if a last shot of whiskey is now taking it's effect upon what seemed to be a sober customer just minutes ago...let alone the other chemicals some need to ingest that might make for a hell on Earth scenario for the other customers who are now alone and at the mercy and whims of a raging psychopath..in YOUR PLACE OF BUSINESS!
Who gets sued? It is your place.
If you think guides subtract from the fear potential in your haunt, think some more... Guides can set up, distract and make much better scares for the hidden person actually making them happen.

[Jim Warfield]

A Warning, Then ejected!

If the customer is causing a disturbance and can't or won't stop, we warn them once, explain it to them for a few seconds, then they get the nearest exit if they keep it going.
People spend a fair amount of money and effort to see my house and it takes an hour or more to go through it, so if there is an obnoxious customer... sometimes the other customers will want a whole NEW tour of the house or want a total refund, and Jim is not about to enjoy doing either of those possible things.
Yes, we do own this place and we also live within it's walls, so we are maybe more "touchy" and particulair when it comes to "Idiot-customers" who have a different agenda than the normal customers.

[BrotherMysterio]

If a floor collapsed under the impact of just 4 teenagers... that floor must have been built very flimsey! Dangerously flimsey.
People get hurt when floors give way. What were the extent of their injuries? Broken bones? Chipped teeth?
Not an ounce of "Good Times" or humor found in such accidents as far as I can determine.
Did the floor fall a few inches or ten feet? If it falls at an angle then sideway impacting forces could potentually cause abrasions as skin makes contact with the non-moving wall surfaces surrounding the floor.

It wasn't like that. On lunch break and need to get back to work. More detailed response forthcoming.

C.

[son-of-sam]

Wild customers

When I catch people acting wild or breaking stuff they will be kicked out no questions asked. I will have an actor or two in every room to scare and watch with walkie talkies to get ahold of me and security if need be. I just know when you have live entertainment things happen. My friend owns a venue that holds live concerts and has to deal with damage on a regular basis. I will not tolerate it but I think in the end it will happen[not on a serious level but wall panels and other little misc. things]. I will definitely keep what you have to say in mind Jim because you have been at this for awhile and people do act WILD when there drunk are on misc. toxins.

[Greg Chrise]

The original Castle Dragon had a wood deck made out of a grid of 2 x 6's with 4x4 posts every 8 foot. One layer of 3/4 inch plywood on top of that and you have a deck. Normal home costruction would have a foundation and 2x8 lumber on 16 inch centers and 2 layers of 3/4 inch plywood. Plus load bearing walls have something designed under them, a mid wall or some foundation. In Castle Dragon the walls that wieghed 90 pounds would end up anywhere on that grid. A few walls into an 8 foot area and it is already sort of preloaded.

There are pictures of the set up and on top of this deck, ready to set up the pattern there are stacks of 8 to 10 walls in any which way locations that would total as much as 900 pounds or more plus helper weight and bouncing around. I'm guessing the actual crack happened when setting up the walls and then 4 little girls who of course do weigh individually the atomic mass of lead in these parts bounced through and it felt kind of week and only flexed a few inches. One by one the screws broke off from the floor and this thing moved and probably 100 people said oh my and never reported it. They continued to operate and fixed it the next day by adding more lumber to the beam and jacking it up.

It could have been but I doubt it was really a tribute to scaring little girls or Thunder Thigh Thursday celebrated here.

In the 80's at the worlds fair, was a research house that showed how construction of the future was going to have beams and studs on 2 foot centers and how it saved the planet so much. There was all sorts of chip board manufactured wood beams and basically crap that you can buy in the future. Even modular pre designed systems you can assemble on site all glued together and pressed instead of nailed saving so much labor and cost. So luckily this didn't catch on in a big way in the real world. Modular homes like this are cheap crap that have no value in the long term and a lot of this construction finds people actually removing their whole roof structures to double the amount of lumber it has to support itself. Home builders actually did some crazy cheap things and then instead of lumber insured each home for some kind of later remodels. Ten years later there is hail damage and people get on the roof and beams start breaking then it is time to reframe the whole thing. Kind of expensive to fix later.

The new homes are back to 100 years ago and walls are 2x6, taller ceilings, double 2x6 in as many places as necessary, back to tongue and groove sub flooring or right on to concrete floors with 3/4 plywood on cement. All 16 inch centers and strapped together with metal fittings instead of just nail guns.

Of course little girls are now fed Genetically modified foods and gallons per day of liquid high fructose corn syrup and they wander around with full pringles cans to keep them quiet, so their density might be increasing exponentially. Everything might be going to more the specs of building a Hippo Habitat with reinforced 2 foot thick gunite concrete rather than wood. It might not hold them back. Everything will have to have thick non skid surfaces because they kind of slip around instead of walk and fall down a lot. Of course I'm already there installing such stuff.

[screamforadream]

Greg, thank you. Thank you so very much for that.

[Jim Warfield]

The "Quasi-Moto" Cities.

Or other wise known as the Quad-cities in Iowa and Illinois along the Miss. River had a new neighborhood built so flimsey that after the homes were there awhile the stores selling major appliances would not deliver the Freezers, ex cetra because the floor's 2 by 4s would break and they would end up in the basement!
My old house (1870?) has 2 by 6 exterior wall studs on 16 inch centers and the central walls "xing" the whole downstairs and upstairs into (originally) just four large rooms are also 2 by 6's. All of this rests upon 6 by 7 inch sills with floor joice dovetailed into the 6 by 7, I run into square cast iron nails and round nails used to build this house.
The heavy interior doors are held inplace by just two hinges, but they still hold . Hinges must have been costly back then?

[son-of-sam]

floor

I did not mean the floor giving way was good. What I meant was if you could scare people bad enough for them to pass out so hard it broke the floor then that is a super scare effect that is like no other. Now that you guys explained how the floor was built that is no good.

[BrotherMysterio]

I did not mean the floor giving way was good. What I meant was if you could scare people bad enough for them to pass out so hard it broke the floor then that is a super scare effect that is like no other. Now that you guys explained how the floor was built that is no good.

Well, no, the floor was built fine, and it was never really an issue anywhere else in the house except that one room. That room got EVERYBODY!! I know because my room was two rooms later, and I could hear the screams clean across the house. Every night of operation, like clockwork, you'd hear a pause, a murmur, see a strobe flash from that area, immediately followed by a yell and a huge scream. Never failed. Like clockwork. You could set your watch by it.

And usually the damage sustained to that room was simply the patrons jumping backwards and crashing into the walls behind them (which made necessary extra bracing on the walls). Again, never an issue. The one time it was an issue was like Greg said, when the four teens, with a collective weight of some 700-900lbs total, did a dead weight drop right in the middle of the floor, like dumping a truckload of kettlebells in that one spot. Now, yes, obviously there are questions of density and whatnot between kettlebells and a human body, but being that as Greg pointed out CD was on a raised deck, regardless of density and concentration of that weight drop, that one 2x6 ate the whole weight. It cracked thru completely, and the adjacent one cracked thru 75% of the way. In fact, it's a credit to how well built CD was in that the kids didn't plow thru the floor, and that the floor only had a bouncy quality like a trampoline. As Greg said, a few screws and some lumber later, and they were back in business.

Incidentally, one of the things I did on slow nights while I was not in my room was to do two other different characters in the Central Corridor. The guests couldn't see me but they could hear me and feel me. I forget offhand what one of the characters was, but the other one was this carnivorous, cannibalistic ogre, who would scream "fresh meat! fresh meat!", sung to the tune of "Red Rum! Red Rum!". I would then jump up and down the hallway, like a human pogo stick. It would feel like this huge giant was stalking the patrons, going all "fee, fi, fo, fum" on them. Then when I would hear the scream from the room in question, that was my cue, and I would hop back into my scene in wait for the guests, playing a totally different character. (Score one for Central Corridors.)

In all that time of pogoing around, jumping up and down, not once did the floor ever feel unsafe or not sturdy. It was also solid. Ergo, I think Greg's assessment is probably accurate in that regard.

The only point that I was making earlier is that I want to see room designs and scare designs where you really get a really good scare; where people are really thrown for a loop, not just startled by some expensive prop or yet another kid jumping out in a mask. All of that is fine, but it's good to see a room design or concept that really knocks a customer out of their sensibilities, where they walk away, shocked out of their gourds, thinking "boy, didn't see that one coming!"

Just sayin'.

Btw, what's of particular interest is that that room was a totally free scare! And when I say "free scare", I mean it consists of only walls, paint, and basic lighting (which to me is the base cost of a Haunt) plus maybe $5-$10 in costuming or electronics. Iow, no walls = no haunt, so, to me, that's the base line cost of the whole house, and any room that doesn't require anything more than that, such as the case with a Dot Room, pretty much counts as a free scare. So, iow, you don't have a situation where you have walls, paint, lighting, and then you have to add 1000's of dollars of additional stuff to make the room work.

And before anyone says it, the obvious exception to the "no walls = no haunt" principle would be Allen's principle of "10 good friends + 10 good costumes + a patch of woods" concept, and I would concur. However, for virtually every other kind of haunt set-up we have going on, "no walls = no haunt", so I think it's easier to determine room cost if you just assume a base-price of painted walls and lighting, and then build from there.

C.

PS. - And before anyone wants to get cute, yes, Haunted Hayrides don't often have walls, but they do have tractors, and flatbeds with hay on them, and fuel costs. Lots and lots of fuel costs. And scenes. Lots and lots of scenes.