Question about latex?

[pickle]

I know this might sound goofy & it may have been covered before, but I'll be damned if I can find it in any thread, but...I pretty much got every material covered in my haunt agenda (fire rated plywood, flame retardant spray for fabrics & paint additives, etc.) however the one biggy I haven't seen addressed (& we all use plenty of) is latex! (& plastics). If water cannot penetrate it than the spray fire retardant is ineffective thus unacceptable by the F/M. So how do you protect these items? Are most of these prop builders using a F/R latex or plastic? I would highly doubt it...& if they are they're needs to be documentation coming with these props for the F/M...@ least where I'm working. Some of the same props I'm buying I've seen in some of the largest theme parks so I'm assuming there must be a way to cover them...or am I missing something? My F/M is a stickler for documentation too! Any help??? Thanks.



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[Allen H]

Use a fire retardant spray on them that says it is for or protects wood products, like this one
http://www.feldfire.com/Fire-Retarda...FUpeTAodo128KA

Latex is sap from a rubber tree, comes from a tree so therefore can be considered a wood product. The documentation then comes from the spray. That has eased the mind of my fire marshals in the past. I hope that helped,
Allen H

[pickle]

Allen,
Thanks for that tip (another thing I did not know) sap...hmmm, I'll try running that by him & see what he thinks. I was just told (& the fire retardant spray manufacturers) claim that if you spray water on a item & it doesn't absorb than the spray will not be effective? You would think that 99% of all prop vendors are using latex in their products they would have by now incorporated a retardant into the latex. Makes sense right? Especially with the stringent fire codes today. These national theme parks are under the same guidelines & use many of the same props so somethings got to give? What about plastics (vacu-form) or rubber (tires,etc.) Has to be a way to coat it or getting around a certain percentage. Anyone?



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[Greg Chrise]

There are a wide variety of fire sheild retardant products that you either mix with water and bug spray everything down or you add 8 to 12 oz of this miracle white powder to each gallon of paint. Small quanities go for $7 to $8 per gallon and buying in bulk is the way to go, you may easily spend $200 to $300 per 1000 SF covering things.

There are industrial products and then the next level down and everyone is using the next level down. Industrial product ratings are 5 times higher and so would cost about $5,000 to spray 3,000 SF. So you need to know your parts and products so the fire marshal does't demand the industrial rating stuff.

It is still an upsell for paint manufacturers because it does tend to settle in premixed materials and must be mixed at the time of use as an additive. It is then an upsell. Residential codes have the potential to change at some point and even require sprinkler systems in homes above 4800 SF and all homes should be 4800 SF but so far this gets held back over and over due to the extra cost.

Everything has a melting point or a flash point when exposed to open flame. Plastics melt and give off fumes more than transmit flames, which is bad but it is already an acceptable time period because most items are petroleum based or already have mineral or fish oil pressure impregnated as a mold release. Flash points on oils require open flames of several minutes to reach flashpoint that is usually around 550 degrees. So you spray this water based or latex mixed sheild on every thing.

No one is treating costumes as far as I know, only props and walls. There are quite a few threads on these forums to search that have the manufacturers listed like New York Fire shield and some haunt specific suppliers.

[pickle]

Greg,
Trust me I've been researching this for a while now...and the answers are not that clear. If you read the Fire Shield (as well as other brands available) data/information sheets, it specifically states "if water does not absorb into the item you are trying to spray than the fire retardant spray will not work/ineffective. As far as I can see water does not absorb into latex, plastic or rubber, so where does that leave you? I understand you must buy different products for different materials (no one spray covers all materials)I understand these sprays are expensive & I have no problem protecting my patrons or investment but according to these sites these sprays would be ineffective? So my F/M is really pressing for concrete information..."this should work" ain't flyin' with this guy! HEEELP!



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[Allen H]

Is he using universal fire code, International fire code or just the regional code? No one has to fire retard their plastic garbage cans so I dont under stand the concerns. How much latex are you wanting to put into rooms?

[Allen H]

Pickle, do you have an MSDS for latex? I can get you one of those, would that be sufficient? That will help determine the fire load of the structure.

[pickle]

Thanks Allen,
No I do not have any of those. I'm not really planning on a lot of latex per say...just the normal props & animatronics (Hogzilla, Cadavers, Snakes, etc.) & this guy wants the F/R on EVERYTHING! I mean I understand the building materials but some of the props? Come on, there has to be some give & take! The patrons clothes aren't fire rated? If 95% of the build out is either non-combustible or sprayed with a F/R, I would think he would bend a little. I thought I'd use the F/R additive in a latex paint & paint the props again but they're mostly all finished already...seems ridiculous to have to re-paint every prop? This kind of shit drives me nuts...wasting a better part of two entire days messing with this crap...thought someone must have run into this by now? Maybe, like everything else in Jersey, our F/M is just over the top & un-bendable!




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[screamforadream]

How is he tested this? Will he come and try to burn down the haunt? Some marshals do that.

I do think that it may be a good idea for vendors to start mixing in FR with their paint as they paint their props, would definitely be helpful!

I don't think we have to spray our latex props, but I'm going on a spraying spree before inspection on everything that isn't wood, like camp netting, all the fake plants, non-latex props (skulls, foam wall pieces, etc)

Make sure you know how your marshal will "check" to see if you did FR everything.

[pickle]

I'm with you...the vendors/manufacturers should build that into the latex itself or the paint on the latex...it would make life sooo much easier. The F/M said he'll take doc's on everything , whether it be IFR (factory designed & installed) or if sprayed...a certification. But still hasn't resolved my problem with the latex stuff! Can't believe more peeps haven't had these problems? I'll keep digging.




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