Fire Retardant Foam...

[pickle]

Ahh, here i go with more fire retardant BS from my FM! Anyone give me any insight on how to treat Dow rigid foam? Obviously it'll need to be sprayed but does your FM require just the exposed surfaces to be sprayed (before &/or after hardcoating?) or all 6 sides of every piece? Isn't anyone making a freakin' fire retardant "bomb" that we can just drop into the attraction, ignite & let it cover every square inch? I think this is what my FM is looking for! This place was a 30,000' sq. ft. women's clothing store prior...you think he asked them to only sell fire retardant clothing!? wtf with this guy!




P.

[screamforadream]

Can a fire reach the back and sides of the foam? Or is the wood you attached it to flame retardant on the other side? If that's the case, just do what is exposed because the back would have already been protected.

Mix the retardant into the paint after you hard coat it. (I'm assuming you're hard coating then painting?)

[Greg Chrise]

Have you thought of building the entire haunt underwater in an Olympic sized swimming pool? It could be patrons have to snorkel or scuba throught the scenes. Just don't use anything made out of magnesium as it will burn even under water if heated up to about 1600 degrees. And these days all the damn kids are wearing portable oxy acetaline torches and shit, it is all a disaster waiting to happen. Or their cell phone battery could catch fire at any moment.

To be a bit serious, I think the FM doesn't get the occupancy realities of there will only be so many people per square foot. Like a clothing store being observed there might on a busy day be 50 people scattered through and racks of clothing are somewhat seperated from each other with the rules that isles have to be so wide. I think he has this picture of it being like a concert and all 10,000 people will be in there all at one time watching something for an hour.

So you have to play the Sesame Street game of some things are not like the other.

Any foam is bad. Hard coated or not. When exposed to heat it melts and any outside coating is irrelevent as the surface coat breaks when the foam mechanically moves due to heat. But, it is not an ignition source. None of these things are. Where are things that could prove to be a source of ignitions?

[Greg Chrise]

You will have to ask specifically every customer, every worker and actor if they or anyone in their family have ever experienced spontaneous human combustion or have the ability to be like Johnny Flame the Human Torch. There will be signs out front saying they are not allowed inside and each individual may have to sign a waiver and so every day these waivers will be delivered in paper form to the desk of the fire mashal. Large stacks of paper. Flamable paper.

I would need documentation about where fire comes from. I'll bet I could cost the city lots of money in court cases discussing all of these points and fair business practices and there would be kind of an early retirement of the fire marshal. Like I recently read an article headline, you can build a coal fired power plant but you will end up in bankruptcy complying with all of the laws. So we are going to have power problems in the future. I'll bet I could convince an attorney that the city has a couple million dollars and we can get paid on the back end of this squabble.

[Greg Chrise]

Generally when a law is passed there is some assigned amount of time or limit to the dollar figure needed to be extended to be in compliance with a law. Hours of education, dollar value of certificate and so on. Guidelines and codes are not really laws, they are up to judgement on whether those guidelines and laws are applicable in any given situation. I need documentation on that. What library and where are those records on file?

If you really play the system, you can make as much money as the business would have made anyhow by not being allowed to conduct business. You can be compensated for all the hours beyond the reasonable written guidelines. Awarded a waiver or a credit, also on a flamable piece of paper. So would jumping through all these hoops cost more than $6500?

In business theory, it might be cheaper to have an on going litigation and temporary waiver to allow to operate under regular review costing about $6500 per year than to have to spend $20,000 to $40,000 per year to comply with this years list of things you might have to comply to. Just saying.

It has been a while but I have had businesses where the attorney is sitting there listening to every conversation, every line item on an estimate, every concept of why we are charging this appropriate fee and so on. If there are 2500 other haunts in the country and there is no statute existing that such businesses are forbidden in your area, you begin with the date you began such an investment in the area and you are the example. If they pass laws later, that doesn't apply to you.

It is kind of a miss application of brain power. You are filling a space with walls and pink foam making a barbie haunt but having to use business theory that were more trended to billion dollar businesses. Or proclaiming the real fact that you are a small business and most of these ventures are small to medium sized businesses and fair practices dictate there are some limitations to use of materials and compliance or a schedule of years to develop compliance over a period of years. And that is fair. Is there a law that says only billion dollar vetted business operate in this region? Some places actually do this by nature of their real estate values and codes of compliance. So what are you up against at this specific location?

I'm just saying even billionaires do things that cost very little money in reality to stall everyone else with red tape and you have to step back with with what has been normal for the area. Maybe the problem is the fact that you are talking to this guy like he is a buddy instead of a professional situation that is costing money over time. It can be either way pal.

[pickle]

Greg,
I am sooo close to doing just that! Sicking my attorney on him! WTF the 10,000 dresses in there weren't flammable? I mean seriously he's got to see I'm doing everything humanly possible to appease him & "I need more"! I think this guy must have been scared shitless when he was a child to hate haunts this bad!!! I think when he comes there for the final inspection I'm going to pat him down...make him remove his radio & cell phone than douche him down with Fireshield! Than will take a walk...


Seriously though, anyone had dealings with their FM on this subject? I mean should I waste the time, money & energy to spray all six sides of every sheet (the sheets, about 120 of them, are going over steel studs with drywall on opposite side) in my lobby/concession area facade. Or is it enough to hardcoat them, install them than spray the exposed areas only? My thinking is the spray is to deter the ignition source which really (other than an concealed wall fire) would be any area that is left exposed! Isn't that the correct theory here or am I missing something?


P.

[Darksidestew]

My fire Marshall was strict. Howeve,r after I presented him the certifacate of all materials passing...thats all he needed to cover his own but.

Send out all your samples get them tested and show him...

Stew

[Greg Chrise]

Send samples where specifically. And for how much.

[Haunter]

I posted this on another thread:



Just a side note about FMs. I know they mean well (usually) and they are ALWAYS safety concious but I also know they can be the biggest pain in the *** making you want to pull your hair out!!!

Here is how I usually deal with them. I keep in contact with them year round and make friends with them (trust me, this helps). Go get him/her and take them out for coffee or bring some doughnuts down to the fire station. I ask them questions regarding safety and fire to show that I truely care about those issues. Make an evacuation plan and place fire extinguishers around. I might throw in the fact that my father is a retired fire fighter and that I have a degree in Emergency Management too, hey it can't hurt!

If they see you as an allie and not a liability their attitude turns around 180 degrees.

Seriously though if anyone is having issues with their Fire Marshall PM me and I will help you out in coming up with a mitigation plan, emergency operating procedure, or whatever.

Ryan

[screamforadream]

Just a thought.....would you be able to use a ton of that fire retardant great stuff insulating foam?

Maybe using 2x2's and luan (sp?) make a 4x8 or 8x8 Fran and back it with luan, then fill it with great stuff insulating foam that is fire retardant and then carve that?? I've never used that for carving before so I don't know if it will work but the cost shouldn't be too much more expensive and then the foam is a bit more fire safe?