This is HORRIBLE ... Time for a Change

[Darkangel]

I don't know if you should say the sept 11 incident was worst mass murderer they didn't use the box cutters to kill they used the plane. A true mass murder would be like a serial killer or like the Virginia tech murderer who killed 34 people by shooting them.

[austind]

How about Jim jones in gyana killing 200 + by poison. Hitler millions by gas chamber. the device is not the issue, the mentality is. Look at the worst serial killers and they mostly did not use guns. And 9/11 was one of the top 10 life changing events of my life, so if that was not murder then I don't know what is. And mike I know most dealers do a great job but down in Texas the law is that if you are a private seller at a gun show selling less tha 3 guns they don't have to do any paper work. This is how most of the guns (long guns)get into Mexico.

Phatman

PS going to gun store tomorrow to buy another gun before I can't get it.

[James Wilson]

To a point, I disagree that this is a gun control issue. There should be some type of mechanism in place to provide a psychiatric evaluation for people purchasing firearms. In essence, this would be a crazy people owning guns issue. As a former soldier, and having grown up with firearms in the house, I was taught from a young age that guns are not something to trifle with. We were taught that to point a toy gun at someone was cause for discipline. In my military career, you were to always be conscious of people around you, and the direction your weapon's muzzle was pointed. It was worth at least one rank to knowingly point a weapon at someone, if not incarceration.

If a person attempts to purchase ANY firearm, there should be a thorough background check and psychiatric evaluation. There should be an even more stringent check made on people attempting to purchase any type of military or assault rifle, or any pistol resembling law enforcement issue.

[MarkSchaefer]

I highly doubt guns will be made completely illegal because of the 2nd amendment. However, over time the far left will be in pursuit of making it so difficult and expensive to own any it will be simply impossible for the average person. As Obama said about utility companies building new coal plants……..they can be built but they will go bankrupt doing so!

[Mike Goff]

How guns really make it to Mexico

When someone who can legally purchase a gun does so for someone who cannot it is called a straw purchase. It doesn’t happen very often, but it does happen more than it should. In most cases it is a thug who convinces his girlfriend, wife, or “Ho” to do it. Most criminals aren’t that smart, the ones that are, usually choose politics over street crime. It doesn’t take long for them to get caught with the gun and they usually figure out where he got it and then both parties are prosecuted.
The media would like us to believe that the cartels in Mexico are armed by straw purchases in the United States. It does happen but the percentage of guns that make their way into the wrong hands by this means is equivalent to spitting in the ocean. I don’t have the exact numbers right now, but I will get them and post them for all to be shocked.
A huge portion of the guns come from Yemen. In the US a 2 tier (decent quality) semi-auto AK-47 will cost you between 500 and 800 bucks. In Yemen, a tier 1 (top of the line) AK-47 that is select fire (fully automatic) can be bought for under 50 bucks. Where do you think that they buy them, the US, or Yemen?
The grenades, RPG’s, rocket launchers, missiles, mini-guns, and Browning 50 caliber machine guns that CNN loves to show pictures of, were not bought at a Bass Pro shop and then smuggled across the border. In order to get your hands on this kind of hardware you have to have ties to some serious players in organized crime, either in the private or public sector.
Some of the more informed among us have probably heard of Fast and Furious. This was a BATF operation that allowed thousands of guns to be shipped into Mexico without any means of tracking. They were also bringing in Heroin and Cocaine back into the US on the return trip, more than likely to finance the operation.
If it were not for a whistle blower, we would know nothing about it. I wonder how many operations have been conducted that we don’t know about.
Now to the real problem, the US government ships tens of thousands of guns to Mexico every year. They ship them to the Mexican military and the Mexican police. Oddly many of these shipments come up missing. The Mexican government asks them for more guns and we ship them to them. Round and round we go. The US stopped releasing the number of guns that they shipped after 2010, but the numbers are available prior to this, and when I have time to look for them, I will post a link. We can only speculate as to the extent of the corruption. I am not saying that Obama did it. The truth is, he probably doesn’t even know about this stuff when it happens. He probably knows now and who knows if he cares? It might be some Mexican general who is getting rich off of these guns and the US government is too stupid to fix the problem. Maybe it’s bigger than that. I can only state the facts and provide the documentation to prove so.
I don’t believe that the Obama administration or the Bush administration cares, because if it were up to me, we would control what goes across the border and we would stop sending guns to other countries.

[Mike Goff]

To a point, I disagree that this is a gun control issue. There should be some type of mechanism in place to provide a psychiatric evaluation for people purchasing firearms. In essence, this would be a crazy people owning guns issue. As a former soldier, and having grown up with firearms in the house, I was taught from a young age that guns are not something to trifle with. We were taught that to point a toy gun at someone was cause for discipline. In my military career, you were to always be conscious of people around you, and the direction your weapon's muzzle was pointed. It was worth at least one rank to knowingly point a weapon at someone, if not incarceration.

If a person attempts to purchase ANY firearm, there should be a thorough background check and psychiatric evaluation. There should be an even more stringent check made on people attempting to purchase any type of military or assault rifle, or any pistol resembling law enforcement issue.

I understand your point and to a certain degree I concur. The problem is, that I believe this can be abused, in fact it already has.
When I returned from the Gulf War in 1992 I was in the prime of life. I weighed 185 lb. and had a 26 " waste. Nine months later I was flat on my back. I weighed 120 lb. had chronic pain, and was rapidly losing the use of my legs. I spent the next few years going to the VA hospital trying to find answers to why I was so sick. Once I woke up to the fact that the people at the VA were not my friends I sought treatment in the private sector. Long story short... the private doctors found all kinds of chemical and biological agents in my body. Once I recieved proper treatment, proper nutrition and the proper amount of time to recover, I eventually did. The VA would not even admit that it was possible for me to be exposed to these things, therefore they would not run the proper tests to see what was wrong. They said that it was in my head. They diagnosed me with PTSD. I am considered by my peers to be and expert in the field of firearms, tactics and the mental dynamics of armed confrontation. I assure you that I don't have PTSD. PTSD is a one size fits all diagnoses that the VA uses to limit the DOD liability of a soldiers health. It will more than likely be used someday to limit a veterans right to bear arms. The number of veterans that are being diagnosed with PTSD is staggering. Some are legit, some are not. If the Schumer ever hits the fan in the United States who would pose the biggest threat to the powers that be? I think that it would be veterans.

[wickedfarmer]

Ndaa

And when they actually act on taking in people under the new Natioanl Defense Authorization Act...and haul Mike away (A U.S. citizen) for a indeffinate amount of time and declare him not protected by Constitution and our other National documents without any reason need to be given....the s--- will really hit the fan. It is now official that the Fed has the power to do that. And what would cause something like this to be declared....a Federal registration of all guns .....turn to confiscation or similar as the baby steps keep coming. I'm the type who would say "bullshit" too loud after Mike is hauled away. But I am afraid there would be lots of brass involved.

Wicked Farmer

[wickedfarmer]

Defiant streak

Now that defiant streak would rear its head ONLY if the gov. actually did the unthinkable and overstepped its bounds on a large scale. I wonder if my great grand father many many generations before me knew that the Boston Massacre picture distributed amongst the colonies was a very gross and twisted depiction on British troops firng into civilian crowd; before he died in the American Revolution taking up arms against the British.

Wicked Farmer

[Mike Goff]

As promised, here is a link to the information about the US legally shipping arms to Mexico.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_1...rming-cartels/

It is now time for me to move on, and focus on more pleasant things in my life. I will leave the debate to others. In closing I will say that it is every Americans responsibility to be informed. It is frustrating when an uninformed dumbass can cancel out my very informed vote. Even when the election is fraudulent, it's still pisses me off.

[mrfoos]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for all your historic and educated perspective here. I was already firmly on your side of the debate but it was simply from my opinion that the best answer is always MORE freedom... not less. I feel a little more educated on the debate now.

And I'm sorry to hear your veteran story. I've heard it many times before. I'm sick of how this country as a whole elevates our cowardly and self-serving politicians to the status of hero and name our buildings, bridges and roads after them... and then treat our real heroes like this.

Ironically every time the gun control folks start talking gun, bullet, and license to conceal sells go through the roof. What they don't understand is they can't win this debate with votes... because WE'RE the ones with the guns and bullets.

[Darkangel]

One more thing to ponder. Kennesaw, Ga has an ordinance that REQUIRES each household to own a gun. You never hear about crime in this town for some reason...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...19257620070418

Out of curiosity, what is the demographic of the people in that area? That probably tells the true story. Don't hear of too much crime out of Salt Lake City either do you?

[twinlocust]

Pre Clinton AWB, during Clinton AWB, After Clinton AWB there was no significant change in murder involving these weapons. Connecticut is among the five U.S states with the most strict gun laws, nearly identical to the standing federal laws in Canada. These laws did nothing to stop this crime.

The mentally ill and evil people will find a way to do bad things.

Attacking the weapon side of the equation in the U.S. is tantamount to pissing on a house fire.

Addressing the mental health side is reasonable and worthwhile.

Even addressing mental health as it relates to purchasing or possessing a weapon - lowering the bar on what
is mentally ill, may be reasonable.

The idea of banning weapons is for weak fools that know little about the way the world works.

[Jim Warfield]

This Morning on BBC..

There was a massacre in Austrailia years ago and then that country bought-back rifles and other guns from owners (the video of the massive pile of guns being scrapped is incredible! $!$!$!$!?)
Maybe someone is just playing with numbers , but the number of gun related deaths since the massive buy-back there is almost "0", according to that program broadcast today.
The Newtown shooter had his own school psychiatrist assigned to him, which did no good at all, obviously.
His Mother was begining paperwork to have him commited, the school adult victims were some of her friends, as were the class of little kids he went after with such a vengence.
The AR15 was his weapon, he did break into the school....the information the first day or two was wrong so often, we just stopped listening for awhile.
Someone keeps saying the USA is the ONLY modern country with such a horrendous track record of gun violence, no it is not, search the internet, mass killings in Germany, Scotland (school children) Austraila , but the social situations do contribute greatly to the level of mistrust between the classes and ethinic types and I believe crowding people into a smaller area also affects this too.
Add unemployment and a scary unpredictable future for many who thought they had it all bought AND paid for and bad things seem to happen more often.
Giving psychological tests to new gun owner wanna-bees might help sometimes, but things in our lives do change, and we don't want that to happen sometimes, like marriages failing, businesses failing , create whole new situations which can render a previous psych. screening null and void, unfortunately.
I am 63, my generation grew up watching cowboy shoot-outs, which maybe spawned the computer shooter games with more and more realistic scenes before young eyes. Take a toy gun away from a boy, he quickly picks up a nearby stick and keeps right on "Shooting"!
When I was a kid this country was still on a "High" of weaponry from WW2, (Since we won)
Allowing movies and TV to babysit our kids is probably not a really good practice some have discovered when it comes to those times a good choices must be made in real life.
If only my Dad would have bought me a Sherman tank that day... there were 100s of them lined up neatly in a farm field waiting to be melted down into wire and nails just 35 miles from us. I would have liked to see that at work, I was told 5 Shermans would fit into the huge ladel at the same time! Melted via electricity!

[Mike Goff]

I know, I said I was done, and I am

I would not be able to sleep tonight if I did not pass this on. As I said, I have studied this type of thing for a long time, too long. Many times these things happen in spurts. This Friday is the end of the Mayan calendar. Don't even get me started, no the world will not end, but there are crazy people who think that it will. I have many reasons to believe that Friday is a bad day to let your kid go to school, I would rather not go off on a weird tangent. I sincerely hope that Friday night all of you are poking fun at me, and you probably will. I do not have any concrete evidence to support this concern, but I am concerned.

[wickedfarmer]

Will not be poking fun...

...at you Mike. Hope we can breath a sigh of relief. News called me today as we did a mayan theme for the maze. He asked me what I was doing friday....so Wicked me strung him along. "I am headed to Yellowstone. The basin has been rising about a half inch every year beacuse of the magma rising under the worlds largest volcano. When the planets line up it will blow from increased pull from other planets. I want to be there to see it blow if we all die anyway." I let a few seconds of silence pass and told him i was kidding...but Yellowstone basin is rising but we probably have 10,000 years yet. Yeah there will be loonies out that day. Just hope they are noit destructive loonies.

Wicked Farmer