This is HORRIBLE ... Time for a Change

[Mike Goff]

Another interesting tidbit. Daniel Webster published the Websters dictionary so that slimey politicians could not change the meaning of the Constitution, by changing the meaning of words in the English language. I am in awe of the founders and thier knowledge of human nature. I am humbled when I repeat their words.

[wickedfarmer]

Oh no doubt Mike...

On the part about Supreme Court and the people.

Tipping point...banning semi-autos. Maybe. It would start with a few "crazies" shooting at gov. entities. Them being hauled away...then slowly more and more saying "this is BULLSHIT" seeing gun owners overun. More and more skirmishes until complete chaos as by then rioting and looting take place since police are so busy. I was shocked it didn't start with confiscating weapons in New Orleans after hurricane.

[Mike Goff]

On the part about Supreme Court and the people.

Tipping point...banning semi-autos. Maybe. It would start with a few "crazies" shooting at gov. entities. Them being hauled away...then slowly more and more saying "this is BULLSHIT" seeing gun owners overun. More and more skirmishes until complete chaos as by then rioting and looting take place since police are so busy. I was shocked it didn't start with confiscating weapons in New Orleans after hurricane.

I have thought the same thing about New Orleans. When I was at a seminar, I had a chance to talk to someone from there. According to him, there was mass resistance, and massive shootouts. I have never been able to verify this with anyone else, but it stands to reason that those who shot it out with the National guard or the police may not be alive to tell about it. What really makes things tricky is that there were so many police and National guard units from all over the country that it is difficult to verify anything. I do know that there was at least one National Guard unit that refused orders, but then I never heard anything else about it. What shocked me more than anything was the number of police and guardsmen that disreguarded their oath. That was deeply disappointing and I will not soon forget it. The corruption of the NOPD and the NYPD is something that should have made national news. Those guys should be in prison for some of the things that they did.

[Mike Goff]

The cops didn't take away guns from Blackwater who was guarding the millionare mansions.

[Twin Locusts]

From Mike : "First off the Supreme court is not the end all be all entity that everyone gives them credit for, the people are. It is only by the consent of the governed that our government is allowed to exist. Second of all the word regulated as it was defined in the 18th century means disciplined, the militia was a citizen militia. The founders were stating the obvious, we needed a well disciplined citizen militia."

Ditto - the few that understand the above statement are enough.

Also Mike, when you say semi-auto ban are you referring only to rifles? And, are you suggesting a law similar to the 90's AWB or are you including confiscation?
In a nutshell the only action taken by the government is the prohibition of the sale and manufacture of certain arms, I'm yet to hear rumblings of anything beyond that
and am interested in a source if you have.

You might like the article below. The Happy Valley Oregon Mall shooter faced a concealed carry holder who drew and obtained a sight picture - the shooter is dead, and it will be impossible to prove. However, the way the timing went down, the shooter shot himself right after he realized there was an armed individual drawing on him. He retreated
and shot himself. The concealed carry holder saw innocents directly behind the perpetrator and chose not to fire, the right thing to do.

Everyone that carries has thought through this situation and prayed they never have to make that decision.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

[Mike Goff]

From Mike : "First off the Supreme court is not the end all be all entity that everyone gives them credit for, the people are. It is only by the consent of the governed that our government is allowed to exist. Second of all the word regulated as it was defined in the 18th century means disciplined, the militia was a citizen militia. The founders were stating the obvious, we needed a well disciplined citizen militia."

Ditto - the few that understand the above statement are enough.

Also Mike, when you say semi-auto ban are you referring only to rifles? And, are you suggesting a law similar to the 90's AWB or are you including confiscation?
In a nutshell the only action taken by the government is the prohibition of the sale and manufacture of certain arms, I'm yet to hear rumblings of anything beyond that
and am interested in a source if you have.

You might like the article below. The Happy Valley Oregon Mall shooter faced a concealed carry holder who drew and obtained a sight picture - the shooter is dead, and it will be impossible to prove. However, the way the timing went down, the shooter shot himself right after he realized there was an armed individual drawing on him. He retreated
and shot himself. The concealed carry holder saw innocents directly behind the perpetrator and chose not to fire, the right thing to do.

Everyone that carries has thought through this situation and prayed they never have to make that decision.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

I can only speculate as to what is coming. I don't think that this will be like the 94 ban at all. They are reaching much deeper. The bushmaster rifle that was used in Conneticut was a Conneticut compliant rifle, which would make it identical to a post Clinton ban configuration. Prior to the 94 AWB "The Supreme Court" ruled that they couldn not name a gun by name or single out a manufacturer. (I know, tell that to Norinco) Herein lies the problem, say that they ban the AR-15 which actually does not exist. There has never been a rifle named the AR-15. There was an AR-10, but never an AR-15.

For the sake of discussion, they ban the AR-15, the manufacturer, changes the way that the barrel attaches to the reciever, or changes the color and they call it the AR-16. The problem that these "experts" have is that they cannot define an assault rifle. Does an assault rifle have a wood stock or a plastic stock? What makes it an assault rifle? The only thing that they could legally do is ban certain features that have little tactical value in the first place. These people are beyond dumb. The very first version of the AWB actually banned importation of Black rifles. H&K started producing white and pink versions of the SL-8. I remember buying one and then buying a bottle of black Rit dye to change the color. Wish I still had that gun.

[Mike Goff]

Back to your question

I believe that they will try to classify ALL semiauto rifles and all pistol magazines with a capacity greater than 10 as title 2 weapons. If they do this, all hell will break loose. They did this with the streetsweeper shotgun (which is a turd, BTW). If there is another shooting, which I think there will be, we may even see a total registration.

Here is exactly what will happen with a magazine ban. If they limit capacity to 10 rounds people and the gun manufacturers will gravitate to larger caliber weapons with lower capacity. Instead of being shot with a .380 or a 9mm, people will start being shot with 45 ACP and 10mm. Remember I said this, people will gravitate to larger caliber weapons.

On a side note, I can slide lock reload in .5 seconds, so the mag ban means nothing to me, these morons can kiss my ass. It amazes me how stupid they are. Shall I continue with how worthless legislation is, or do the gun grabbers here still think that the criminals will obey the law?

[wickedfarmer]

Silly me....

I thought there was actual definition/criteria for assult rifle. Without looking...intermediate range cartridge capable of full auto or burst with a shoulderable stock.

[Mike Goff]

The reason that I think they will include all semi-autos is that they will grab all that they can, while they can, and for all practical purposes an M1a1 is just as effective a killer as an AR type rifle, actually more.

[Mike Goff]

I thought there was actual definition/criteria for assult rifle. Without looking...intermediate range cartridge capable of full auto or burst with a shoulderable stock.

That is the definition that the rest of the world uses, the legal definition is much different, much broader, and completely undefineable. Besides the technical definition of an assault weapon is already titled as a class 3. I would want to do some serious research before I said anything for certain, but I am pretty sure that a title 3 weapon has never been used in the commission of a crime, ever. The last I checked an M16 is $15,000 plus transfer.

[Mike Goff]

This guy isn't super fast, but you get the idea of how effective a capacity ban will be. Again, these people are stupid.

[Twin Locusts]

I believe that they will try to classify ALL semiauto rifles and all pistol magazines with a capacity greater than 10 as title 2 weapons. If they do this, all hell will break loose. They did this with the streetsweeper shotgun (which is a turd, BTW). If there is another shooting, which I think there will be, we may even see a total registration.

Here is exactly what will happen with a magazine ban. If they limit capacity to 10 rounds people and the gun manufacturers will gravitate to larger caliber weapons with lower capacity. Instead of being shot with a .380 or a 9mm, people will start being shot with 45 ACP and 10mm. Remember I said this, people will gravitate to larger caliber weapons.

On a side note, I can slide lock reload in .5 seconds, so the mag ban means nothing to me, these morons can kiss my ass. It amazes me how stupid they are. Shall I continue with how worthless legislation is, or do the gun grabbers here still think that the criminals will obey the law?

Agreed, whatever comes down will be similar to, and more comprehensive than, Clinton AWB. The irony about the process is how that when legislation passes and the know-nothings see the headlines, "Assault Weapons Banned" they think that magically all these, as defined, arms disappear or become illegal to own. The ban only effects new sales and manufacturing, there many millions of these arms owned currently and nothing about that changes. An AWB will have no impact whatsoever on spree killers for the next 50 years.

The degree to which the "American perspective" on rights and freedoms has been skewed by public education is staggering. Stalin and Khrushchev's 'Useful Idiots' are now the majority, and only took a few decades since the Cold War. Now that Generation Duck Face can vote all bets are off; we're at greased-pig speed toward an Orwellian theme park.

[Twin Locusts]

This guy isn't super fast, but you get the idea of how effective a capacity ban will be. Again, these people are stupid.

I'm not even in the same zip code as this guy - I don't have to take my eyes off range but have never practiced speed.

Never shot a G17, I've 50 round qualified twice with a G19, 100's on both. There are a lot of Glock detractors out there,
but I love my 19, most consistent, true grouping I can produce. Ironically, the only jam I've ever had on it was while
qualifying, whole range had to cease fire. The bad part was, by the rules, I couldn't clear my own jam - instructor had
to come over and do it. Out of 10 in the class though, six were Glock carriers. The rest were hammerless revolvers.

[Mike Goff]

Agreed, whatever comes down will be similar to, and more comprehensive than, Clinton AWB. The irony about the process is how that when legislation passes and the know-nothings see the headlines, "Assault Weapons Banned" they think that magically all these, as defined, arms disappear or become illegal to own. The ban only effects new sales and manufacturing, there many millions of these arms owned currently and nothing about that changes. An AWB will have no impact whatsoever on spree killers for the next 50 years.

The degree to which the "American perspective" on rights and freedoms has been skewed by public education is staggering. Stalin and Khrushchev's 'Useful Idiots' are now the majority, and only took a few decades since the Cold War. Now that Generation Duck Face can vote all bets are off; we're at greased-pig speed toward an Orwellian theme park.

Amen Brother, I started a few posts along these lines myself, but then stopped myself. You know the whole honey vs. vinegar analogy.

So far the word that I am getting is that it will not be retroactive, I say bullshit. The idea of reclassifying title 2 weapons was being talked about before the shooting, so I definately think they are on it hard. Here is the deal, I doubt that congress has the votes to do this, and even if they did, they don't have the athority. If they are going to do it in such a way that it will not be thrown out in the supreme court, they will have to have a constitutional ammendment. They have precedence for reclassification, but even that was illegal. I think that the reason noone challenged the street sweeper is because nobody cared. That may have been a mistake. What it really comes down to is what people will tolerate, and I believe that we will have an answer to that very soon.

[Mike Goff]

I'm not even in the same zip code as this guy - I don't have to take my eyes off range but have never practiced speed.

Never shot a G17, I've 50 round qualified twice with a G19, 100's on both. There are a lot of Glock detractors out there,
but I love my 19, most consistent, true grouping I can produce. Ironically, the only jam I've ever had on it was while
qualifying, whole range had to cease fire. The bad part was, by the rules, I couldn't clear my own jam - instructor had
to come over and do it. Out of 10 in the class though, six were Glock carriers. The rest were hammerless revolvers.

Come visit me, I'll have you under 1.5 from concealment in a few hours. A 1911 is the kind of gun you show to your buddies, a Glock is the kind of gun you show to the bad guy.