This is HORRIBLE ... Time for a Change

[lurker]

"We have got to get God back in our public places! We HAVE allowed God to be taken from EVERYTHING! Mostly due to atheists! If you don't believe fine!!! just allow the one's who do their faith! I think we need a few more examples like Madalyn Murray O'Hair! Do you know that in 8 countries you are put to death for saying your an Atheists!!! Their crime rates almost don't exists! Something we should look at!"

Shane, I think you need to go back to Sunday school yourself, cause I think you may have missed a few key points.
It always cracks me up when I hear people say that we need to get god back in our schools and our hearts, and then talk about killing atheist and making others suffer. Yes, I do believe Jesus preached about the benefits of killing the non believers and torturing the the wrong-doers. Yes, yes, that is straight from the Gospel of Horse Cookies! lol
I believe Jesus taught love and forgiveness. Maybe if we all practiced that rather than looking to blame and punish perhaps that would go a long way in putting god back in people's hearts. If you can justify killing in the name of a god of love, then what horrors can't be justified.

God, guns, nor Super-man can protect against CRAZY. If someone wants to kill a lot of people, and they are willing to sacrifice their life to do it, there is little that can stop them. We would be better off to examine why CRAZY manifests itself in spree killing.

[Mike Goff]

[QUOTE=graystone;144480]Couple of points.......
1..... EVERYONE should have a gun for protection... NO ONE needs the same guns our military has however!

I respectfully disagree with the first part of this statement. I don't believe that everyone should have a gun, or that everyone should have a drivers liscence, or that everyone should have kids. The difficult dilemna that we will always be faced with is who makes this determination and what are the qualifying factors.

The second part of this statement is the one that really needs to be settled. Please explain why you believe this to be true. If it is a matter of law, I would argue that the men who wrote and signed the Constitution used their rifles, muskets, and cannon to kill the British. They abolished the government that was oppressing them. One of the most significant acts that triggered the War for Independance was when the British attempted to confiscate arms, shot, and cannon. It was at this point in time that the colonists were pushed into a position that it was now or never. Had they let the British confiscate their weapons they would have surrendered any meaningful chance to resist the tyrranny of King George.
As I stated in a previous post, even the supreme court ruled that the second ammendment was written so that we may keep an oppressive government in check. It was obvious to them, that in order to be successful at keeping the government in check The People and the government had to be on equal footing. If they are not on equal footing, the consent of the governed could be, and as history clearly shows, would be given while under duress.

If your position is not based on law, which it clearly cannot be, because the law has been undeniably clear, then what makes you think that people do not need the same guns as our military? Americans have become incredibly soft. Most never make the connection that our freedom was fought for. News flash for everyone here. The troops that are fighting in Iraq and Afganistan are not fighting for our freedom. A person could make a case that they are fighting for the freedom of the Iraqis or the Afgans, but they are not fighting for our freedom. The more informed and cynical among us would probably say that they are fighting for the Central Banks, or the Petro dollar or oil companies, or even the miitary industrial complex. Fighting for our freedom means resisting the people that are trying to take it away. That could mean many different things. It could be as subtle as me typing away on this forum stating the case for why my guns should never be taken away. Or it could be a farmer making a last stand to keep his ground from being takin away by the EPA. It may someday be the only option we have left to protect ourselves from an ever intruding, ever corupted police state. Americans have become soft, and they say that it will never happen, because they are in denial. They are in denial because most of them dont' have the will or the means to resist a mugger, let alone a government gone wild. History tells the same story over and over. It is a cycle that never ends.

1. The age of outburst (or pioneers).

2. The age of conquests.

3. The age of commerce.

4. The age of affluence.

5. The age of intellect.

6. The age of decadence.

7. The age of decline and collapse.

Where do you think that America is as it pertains to this cycle? What will you do to protect your family when collapse knocks on the door of America? What will you do if the same government that voted for a bill (the NDAA) that gives them the right to arrest, indefinately detain, torture, and kill American citizens without trial, due process, or without the family members even knowing about it comes knocking at your door? I am curious as to why DHS ordered 450 million rounds of 40 s&W hollow point rounds. It cant be for a war, because hollow points are banned by the Geneva convention, and NATO countries don't use 40 S&W, they use 9mm. Why do you people trust this government so much that you would let them have more powerful guns than you do? The oath of service that I took prevents me from surrendering my "assault rifle" Anyone who wants it, will have to take it. Who will that be? Who wants to be first? There are a lot of people in this country who say that they should be taken away, I would highly encourage all of these people stop talking about it, and go volunteer to be the guy that kicks in the door and takes them.

[austind]

Thanks mike you summed up a lot of my thoughts. I think we need parenting classes for those who let there kids become detached from society and make up excuses for there actions. My son is well aware of the value of a life, a code, and honor. He was brought up with the understanding that the freedoms that have we're paid for by real people not video games. The schools now don't have any power to do anything about problems like this due to the fact that we have to be politically correct. When my son got in trouble at school he did not fear what the school would do, he feared what his mom and football coach would do. You take away things like cell phones, cleaning toilets, or a 10 mile run just once and they get a clue of what is the cost of there auctions. I raised my son to be a man not a over protected kid that doesn't have the life skill to cope with life. Sorry I was just meaning to say thanks and ended up rambling. GOD BLESS AMERICAN.


Phatman

[Mike Goff]

I'm trying very hard not to chastise the sheep too harshly. I do not fault anyone for being a sheep, nor do I think myself to be morally superior because I am not a sheep. We all have our place. I am trying to make the point that the sheep need not fear the sheep dogs. The sheep dogs are the only thing that keep the wolves from getting them.

Allow me to quote Jeff Cooper “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”

[mandible]

Teacher here

Hey, everyone. I'm a teacher in a public school for adolescents with behavior problems. Here are a couple of thoughts from reading this thread:

1. Teachers are actually trained to respond to school shooters. We all know where in our classrooms that our students can fit and be out of the sight line of the door. We practice lockdown drills regularly (like how we've always practiced fire drills... just not as often).

2. I think this is more a problem of mental health care access than of gun control. I have seen (more times than I care to remember) students and their families who NEED mental health care but either can not afford it or are too stigmatized by the notion of "being crazy" to seek help.

This: http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...kable.html?m=1

3. Someone mentioned respect. This. This is it. We, as teachers, are not respected by our students, their parents, our administrators, and sometimes even by each other. I am very fortunate. I received a LOT of behavioral training in the process of earning my teaching degree. Most teachers are not required to take any classroom management courses. Most new teachers are thrown into the deep end with disrespectful students and no training on how to handle it. Students act up, the parents threaten to sue, and administration punishes the teacher.

4. I don't want to carry a gun in my classroom. I DO want metal detectors so that fewer guns and knives make their way into my school in the students' hands. Do you know how often weapons come to school? You'd be shocked, I think.

5. About training teachers to shoot/ defend themselves... it's a fair idea. One question: when? To save money, all of our professional development days have been cut. We don't get the training we used to get- those days in the summer for new reading programs, the changes to the curriculum standards that we HAVE to implement... we don't get those training days anymore. We already give up our nights and weekends to meet with parents, grade papers, write lessons, chaperone dances, go to the kids' football games and ballet recitals... We do that because our actual school days are so crammed with pretests, post tests, test taking skills, testing requirements, and actually administering the tests that we don't get much time to teach anymore. All that matters is test scores. And we have to raise those test scores in 10 fewer school days this year because the state school board cut our funding again.

6. Along those lines, we don't have the opportunity to teach social skills anymore. There's no time. And, if we tried, one kid would hurt another's feelings, the parents would complain, and we'd be fired.

I could rant forever. It's a frustrating time of year and we're all reeling from the events in Connecticut.

Thank you for being haunters. Thank you for giving my students a place where they can go and have some safe fun with their friends. Thank you for scaring them so that they learn how to handle fear in a safe environment. Thank you for activating their imaginations. Thank you for bringing some magic into their all-to-real lives.

Thank you.

[graystone]

Lurker

Cookies, Cakes, Pies My thoughts and beliefs are solid. My points are very true. Whether you believe in God or not what I said is 100% true. I said we need to get back to the basics! Respect your fellow man, Believe in God Our Savior, teach our kids right from wrong. If you don't believe then just look at my statement as my opinion and instead of trying to change my thoughts or correct it. I mean after all I am a Christian and until our ever so touchy Goverment takes away my own personal beliefs I still have a right to say as I feel. Again countries that still allows God and does not take him out because some monkey believer don't like it has way less crime ect. It's not my opinion its a stated fact. My point and post also related to punishing the " trouble makers" for a better use of the word. Shane and it's NO ONE WILL EVER TAKE MY GOD FROM ME.

Also I don't want to turn this thread topic into a religous debate. The point here is our goverment and society allow things like this to happen. Yes even with God things like this will happen but given much stricter punishment ect I assure you it would be much rarer!

[lurker]

No one is trying to take your god from you, but I was taught that Christians believed in forgiveness and love. You are talking about killing people for being atheist. I'm sorry sir, but you miss the mark on being a Christian. You are trying to take away the rights of others in name of protecting your own.

[Deathwing]

I think that the security business is the wave of the future. Schools will start hiring more security, as will most public places. It's like living in Israel but instead of terrorists it's dorky gamers who didn't get enough hugs as a kid killing people.

Jake

[graystone]

Sad

At the end of the day this is just sad! I as a believer in God and Heaven I do find comfort knowing all the beautiful angels that arrived in Heaven on Friday. I can honestly say myself I am not afraid to die because I do know there is something far more better than this! Shane and it's can't wait to see the streets of gold!

[austind]

Amen Shane. I have already died once and they brought me back. It must not have been my time but when it does come I will be happy with the life I have had. And hope that I go up and not down, it might be a coin toss right now.


Patman

[Scary Harry]

Amen Shane

[Jim Warfield]

"Happiness!"

.. is a warm gun.. unless it's being pointed at YOU! And it's warm because it just killed a few other people.
June 11th, 1940 Florence,31yrs old a woman who grew up in my house and whose Parents owned my house at that time, and lived here, was killed by her Husband, Glen 32 yrs old, just four blocks away straight due South on Carroll St. from my front door.
He also killed his own Son, Glen Jr.- 13 and his own Daughter, Beatrice, 12 and the Family's dog...
He shot them all.
I try to imagine , my Father ever pointing a gun at me, with the intent to kill me...it is THE most impossible thing for me to do.
I can't begin to imagine anyone doing such an evil and thoughtless thing to their own.
But it did happen. their graves are 500 feet from my front door too, to the West in the city graveyard all next to one another.
Whenever I talk about this crime I get very emotional about it over half of the time.. it was just... So Wrong!
Wrongful death may not be the final dealings one has on this Earth though. For these last two years , sometimes a GPS will guide my first time patrons the wrong way and they are dropped off at the 1940 murder location. The garage is gone, the house is still there. He killed them in the garage.
"She" might still he HERE, in my house, that is what a psychic said as she went passed him and out of the house 11 yrs. ago.
Her Red hair gave her away.
He saw her as a young girl again.

[wickedfarmer]

Sorry wasn't here sooner Mike...but you are handling things well

Lets not forget that the constitution and the right to bear arms was written at a time when Americans were worried about the Red Coats breaking down their door, it was war with the British and a gun was necessary. Also back them people still shot their own food for survival. Nowadays we have a place to get food, it's called a grocery store. This idiot had mental problems but he still managed to get guns, we need tighter laws for sure to endure this doesn't happen again.


DA

But you did miss this bit...so I'll chime in. Dark; the right to bear arms (2nd amendment) was written several years AFTER The American Revolution. Not during heat of the moment. Our Forefathers wrote this not out of haste but with lessons learned through out European history. It is scary how on target and correct Mike is about intention of it being that the citizens would be able to say in effect 'bullshit" to the gov. at any time they needed to. If you were to read personal papers of the original signers it can be nothing but very clear their thought was to preserve citizens capacity to resist the gov and any standing army. I know it sounds crazy and hard to fathom; but there it is in black and white for anyone to read if they did honest research. The thought of such a thing coming to reality is mindboggling....but there it is.

The recent movie theatre shooting....that guy CHOSE the theatre farther away from his apartment for a reason. it was the only one in the area that exercised the part of the concealed carry law there that they could exempt their "private property" from the law and post 'no guns allowed". The other theatres showing batman that night did not post "gun free zone" or similar. These lunatics fear resistance of an armed person....but no fear of sitting ducks. The recent mall shooting the other day- that shooter saw another guy pull out his concealed carry pistol and aim it. Couldn't get a clear shot and didn't fire. But the loonie backed off and shot himself. The bit that Mike talks about that these loonies fold at first resistance has been crazily true. This recent school shooting...the guy shot himself as soon as he heard police....BEFORE they could even engage him.

Mike I might have to take your CCW class this winter. I carried this fall when we had the loonie shooting people on the two highways I am at intersection of...BUT it was on MY PROPERTY. I want to be able to carry elsewhere.

Wicked Farmer

[Tater]

Just saw where that SCUM SUCKING asshats at Westboro Bapist church promised to protest at Sandy Hook. Seems that finally people on the internet and Hackers have decided to fight back.

Really good article about it below

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-575...ewtown-threat/

[Deathwing]

It sounds like the Anonymous group has been watching too much Angels and Demons and take themselves way too seriously their quote sounds like the letter written by the fictional Illuminati

"We will not allow you to corrupt the minds of America with your seeds of hatred. We will not allow you to inspire aggression to the social factions which you deem inferior. We will render you obsolete. We will destroy you. We are coming."

But these Westboro baptist people are idiots just liking for attention, and through their extremism has managed to be successful at getting it.

Jake