Future Tradeshow Location - St Louis Weather

[Badger]

My 2 cents.

Since everyone is talking about Orlando, I challenge all of you to attend the Halloween Extreme show in Orlando in May, especially since Jen and Ben Armstrong are the brains behind it. She has described it as 'TW for the general public' and they are hoping for a big crowd. If you want to see what Orlando can offer the show if it were to move, start by attending HE. I have heard some good buzz about it and am planning to attend.

If you want to move somewhere warmer and not too far from the Midwest, I would suggest Atlanta since it only has the busiest airport in the world and lots and lots of hotels and convention space. Plus, Netherworld would be a rather nice place to visit. March temps can average into the mid-60's too.

Again, only my 2 cents...

www.halloweenextreme.com

[kpolley]

I've been to several cities for shows.

Chicago was fine, when I didn't know anything else. Looking back, I wouldn't like to go back there. The weather was always cruddy, the unions were harder to deal with, etc.

Las Vegas is a city I love...just not to hold a tradeshow. If the show ever went back there I would not follow. That's a guarantee.

Orlando is a great city and a great place for a convention. IAAPA is great there. We really love it. The only problem is that it's not centrally located. IAAPA has a lot of international exhibitors and buyers, but TW doesn't. TW needs to stay in a central part of the US to make it make sense.

St. Louis is my favorite city for TW. Yes, I live here so I'm biased, but the unions are easier to deal with, the prices are more affordable, and the weather is a little beter than Chicago. I won't riot if the show moves, but it would have to be for very compelling reasons. Moving the show just to move it is a terrible idea. It should only be moved for a very sound reason and, at this moment, I can't think of one. Simply going to a new city, seeing a new haunt, getting warmer weather, etc. are not reasons I think are good enough. We want consistency in this show. It helps build a customer base. If we just move it every couple years because we get bored it's going to hurt the show overall.

That's just my opinion, but I've been at this for quite a while and I feel like I have a pretty good hold on this show. At any rate, we can't wait to see everyone in St. Louis in just a few days. And with that, I need to get to the shop...

[wickedfarmer]

[St. Louis is my favorite city for TW. Yes, I live here so I'm biased, but the unions are easier to deal with, the prices are more affordable, and the weather is a little beter than Chicago. I won't riot if the show moves, but it would have to be for very compelling reasons. Moving the show just to move it is a terrible idea. It should only be moved for a very sound reason and, at this moment, I can't think of one. Simply going to a new city, seeing a new haunt, getting warmer weather, etc. are not reasons I think are good enough. We want consistency in this show. It helps build a customer base. If we just move it every couple years because we get bored it's going to hurt the show overall.

That's just my opinion

That is more than opinion in my book...those are damn good standards to measure a potential move against. I would like the weather (original thread topic)and tying in vacation time. Guess I am going to put a few vendors on the spot and call them out for comment. The ones I will call on to comment on shipping costs are 2 who take large quantity of big things to St. Louis. Adam of Poison Props...and Kevin of Gore Galore; would really like you two to comment here. Adam is in California so Orlando is much farther haul. ; throw a quote difference for hauling to Orlando vs. St. Louis with your
shipper AND get a plane fare quote. Orlando is a cheap flight for MANY. I can get ROUND TRIP to Orlando from Michigan for $190, several airlines do a "Orlando run" because they know they can fill the plane. Kevin (Gore Galore) in Indiana do the same.
Orlando has CHEAP FLIGHTS to help over come extra shipping expenses (And no I am really not hung up on Orlando...Atlanta...Texas...I would still go, but they lack the "vacation" tie in that haunters can do that time of year.) Actually Kevin and I have chatted how he needs a vaction!

Then I want vendors who have been at Orlando working with convention hall to chime in.

[wickedfarmer]

Comments coming?

I have private messaged Kevin & Adam to chime in. I will look at vendors who have been to Orlando and tag them for commenting as well. Think Haunt Visions has been at that show in Orlando...but of course they would rather it was in their home town St. Louis.

Wicked farmer

[austind]

I think location should be judged buy the person coming to buy and spend money. I am sure Distortions thinks the best place is Denver. Look at how many vendors come from other areas than St Louis and you will find that there are more outside the state than in. It should be about the buyer, a lot of people spend vacation time to go to TW. it would be nice if the family could travel with them and get a little vacation time in as well. We need to remember that most Haunters have a day jobs that they pay thier bills with and the haunt is a side job. If we only take the full time haunter and vendors in to account then TW attendance would be very low, it the enthusiast and small haunter that are the majority of attendees. I am not for or against St. Louis but it is the largest show in the industry and they should be looking at other venues as a draw for more people to attend the show. From what has been said this year there are more vendor that ever before, I don't know if that is true, but I think vendors would travel where ever there is money to be made. Like I said I don't really care as long as the hotel is close and there is some good food. It's not hard to make a fat guy happy, just don't make us walk too far and keep us fed with good food. The only thing that I will add is that it would be nice to be able to see other high end haunts other than the Darkness, as much as I appreciate that Larry puts a tremendous amount of effort to get his haunt rebuilt for TW, there are a few others around the country that I would like to go see like Neatherworld and others. That my two cents worth and it probably only worth a half cent but that what it is.

Phatman

[Darkangel]

There are more haunts than Netherworld. Every post someone mentions them it makes it seems like there is only a handful of really good haunts in the entire industry to see. Netherworld is certainly one of the very best no one will ever dispute that, but it gets brought up constantly when there are dozens of really good ones, hell look at Texas for example.

Also, it look like another storm is heading into the midwest, another blizzard and tornados in the southeast.... Hope it calms down next week for everyone's sake.


DA

[austind]

Yes there are a lot of good haunts but I am talking no budget over the top type haunts that you can't see most of the time. I love the MHC per tour and am going again this year but if I could go to only one haunt then I want it to blow my socks off. Maybe Neatherworld gets mentioned so much because people would like to see it. MHC covers Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio on tours, Hauntcon will cover the Dallas area this year and covered Pittsburg and northern Ohio last year. I have seen the Darkness and I am looking forward to seeing it this year too, but that is because they do a lot of changes. You act like you don't want to see Neatherworld, but you did not mention a alternative. How about Bates Hotel, 13th Gate, Dent Shool house, Pure Terror, House of Torment, Headless Horseman, 13th floor, Asylum, and the list could go on and on. The question is if you are going to a convention wouldnt you like to go to a haunt that is considered top notch,with a location that has a good convention center. New Orleans , Atlanta, St. Louis, Dallas, Nashville, Memphis and I'm sure there are more. I am not pushing for a individual haunt just a haunt the caliber of the Darkness, if it is not at that level then I don't know if it would draw the crowds that would take to afford remodling for a march TW. Larry said he spent $300,000 to get ready this year, not many haunt have pockets that deep.

Phatman

[austind]

What good haunts are in Orlando, the parks are not set up year around with the halloween stuff are they. I went to haunted mansion and Harry Potter last spring but that's all I could find other than a small haunt in Old Town. Harry Potter scenic design was great but we spent $89 for each of us and we rode that ride and were done, kind of pricey but my wife is a Harry Potter freak so we went. Cant piss off the wife or there would be he'll to pay, plus with all the haunt crap I buy a year I have nothing to complain about.

Phatman

[drfrightner]

Here is something to consider...

The show started in St. Louis for a couple reasons...

1) Central Location
2) IT WAS THE CHEAPEST location for all concerned

Now on to another topic...

1) Attendance: The shows attendance doubled in one year. This show has over 6000 people attending now and growing again this year. So the location doesn't seem to affect the attendance because it keeps climbing.

2) Support: The show started life in one 50k haul and it wasn't totally sold out. Now its doubled in size and totally sold out. We have more IAAPA type vendors, retail vendors and everything between than ever before it the shows 30 year history... yes not more overall retail vendors but more vendors both haunted and amusement all mixed together than EVER BEFORE!

3) Vendor Support: There are not more vendors that are haunt only supporters than ever before. I even remember SHANE stating there wasn't enough haunt vendors to support a haunt only show. Well where did all these haunt vendors come from... I said from year one make the show cheaper more affordable on all levels and they will show up people you never knew existed would buy booths and they did!


4) Haunt Only Activities: I said from day one even when I was being SLAMMED by many in this industry that if you create a haunt only show haunt only activities would spring up and would create synergy for this industry. We started off just with a couple haunt tours now there is so much to do its not even funny... mostly unrelated to seeing a haunted house. And btw the attendance of this show just keeps going up and up.

5) Central Location: St Louis is the most central city in America period... that is why its called Gateway to the West! Pick a city that fits THIS INDUSTRY NOT the amusement park industry or some other industry. So sure move the show but pick a city that isn't too bad on weather, central location, CHEAP and a city where you can do a lot of activities.


So in short you must remember changing something flying high... hmmm! Make sure it fits the mold of affordable because that is the main reason the show keeps growing. Make sure its central that limits the cities in my opinion to: Dallas, Nashville, Memphis, Indy and KC or maybe a tourist area like Branson.

Larry

[poison]

Kip nailed it!

My 2 cents!
Being from California I have to 95% agree with Kip, "TW needs to stay in a central part of the US to make it make sense."
Yes shipping costs would be more to go to Florida as well as airfare. I think the key here is centrally located in the US.
There is a lot of shipping that vendors do for this show but there is even more driving. More vendors drive their
displays to the show then ship them. It's a lot more work for some but the costs savings out weighs the pain from driving. It is a 3rd of the cost that way.
Most big displays are driven in by the vendors. Haunted Enterprises, Dark Raven, Distortions etc. That's a lot of driving.

Would Vegas save me money in the long run to Vend at the show? Heck YES it would.
But if it's not good for the show overall what's the point.
Transworld works their butt off putting this show together every year and they do a GREAT job! Jen Braverman has managed to build this show into what it is today, A key trade show for any serious vendor or buyer.

[wickedfarmer]

It would be crazy...

to have 6000 attendees fill out a survey...A GOOD survey. One that would take time developing. And find out just what people would want or not want. What would be limiting factors of "go- not go". to show. Central location....St. Louis kicks butt. Someday....snow will kick St. Louis's butt. Texas...south central location. Orlando...extreme east coast BUT it has perks of cheaper costs to get there and unlimited options for those who wehn they take time off of work to go to show Orlando would definitely make many "families" happy. Some of you have seen my ugly mug on the Outdoor Channel and not known it. Friend who does outdoor shows attends a sporting show in Orlando...his family just hops on buses to the theme parks and he joins them later in day.

A survey with question "what city do you want to see haunt show at" would be worse than useless. To take a GOOD survey...you have to have informed people polled. Low cost of St. Louis is BIG; but it needs to be known what costs other places would be, working with event location easiness etc. Until then we will blindly kick around pros and cons of each locataion and never be able to line them up against each other and say to attendees "What say you?" with any amount of reality.

Wicked farmer

[austind]

Larry you have some good points and the show has grow in St. Louis and I do believe that I have heard that the show in Vegas was not well received. I don't care where it is but we have come to expect that there are certain elements to the show that people come for and you can't move the show and lose those elements without replacing them. Some people come and look forward to seeing the changes at the Darkness, some come for the vendors, some for classes and some just to have fun. I live in Michigan and this weather talk makes me laugh because if my guys said they couldn't make it to work because of snow them maybe they need a new job in a different state. The weather in St. Louis is not bad and the city is clean and safe, it just sometimes nice to go else where for a change. I guess that is part of why people go to. Hauntcon, and that is their niche to fill. I don't want to go somewhere and not get the quality show that I become accustomed to. Unless someone wants to suggest Detroit, I could go for that, any takers got some great scary places we can go and they don't charge to get in. If TW does move then it needs to be for the better not a lateral move. That brings me to a question for you Larry, what haunts are on your list to go see? What haunt interest a person that owns one of the best haunts in America. What does it take to wow you Larry.

Phatman

[drfrightner]

Couple more things here...

1) I'm totally in favor of moving the show if you can meet all of the pointed out bullet points such as location, affordability, etc.

2) Haunts that wow me... umm that is a tall order. I'm not moved much anymore because I've seen it all at one time or another. I don't travel to see haunts anymore just too busy but I like it when people post their photos and videos here on Hauntworld. That helps me and everyone else know what everyone is up to!

The Haunts that I truly think are the best based on what people have posted here on Hauntworld nothing more...

Darkness, Netherworld, 13th Gate, Headless Horseman, Haunted Overload, Dead Acres even though its way over the top, same goes for House of Shock. So if I was going to travel and see haunts those would be the ones I'd like to see the most. Others I would want to see for a variety of reasons are Spookywoods, House of Torment, Dent School House, Talon Falls, House of Horrors, Haunt House, there are probably many more but those owners haven't really shared a lot of videos or photos of their attractions. I would really like to see Pirates of Emerson.

I think the overall best in the country is Universal and Tampa Busch Gardens.

I would also go as far to say that Creepyworld our other haunt is one of the best 15 in the country no matter what theme or style of haunt.

I wish more people would post photos and videos so we could get to know them more.

Larry

[austind]

I do like that you post photos of what you have going on, I find it very educational. One thing I have noticed is you have photos that some of us would consider done and then you go that small extra step to bring the realism to that next level. Thanks for the list of haunts ,I have been on a lot of haunt tours and find I can learn something from every one.

[Deathwing]

I've never seen Headless Horseman post photos.

Jake