Zombie Paintball?

[NightmareAftershockLLC]

Greg, while the information was welcomed, you have too many variables to say that this is for everyone. At a haunt doing 40k people a year, with paid actors, and marketing budget of 10-15k or MORE, this setup is perfect. For a haunt just starting out with, say, 3500 people a season, and a marketing budget of 2300 dollars, can you HONESTLY tell me that when I buy your setup I will get my money's worth?

I'm not questioning you, your setups, or your workmanship. I'm sure, that as a professional in this industry, you take this very seriously, and my doubts aren't in YOU or your PRODUCTS. They are simply in the fact that just as I wouldn't recommend a 2500 dollar animatronic to a new haunt that can't nail the fundamentals of acting, scenery lighting, and sound design, I can't recommend a 30k setup to a haunted attraction that is still learning the ropes and growing towards bringing in big numbers.

I would assume that you should tell your clients that without marketing they may as well burn the money that it would take to purchase a trailer setup from you, agreed? Selling a setup and promising great numbers is the same as Unit 70 selling a Yogoth and promising great attendance at their attraction. It doesn't work like that.

I was looking for input from folks regarding the ENTIRE methodology of a paintball setup, not just your piece of it. I've read the reviews, I've listened with both ears intently as a passerby, and I know that your setup is great.

Please don't be offended, however, if I wanted to see the results of buying your setup compared with how much was spent on advertising compared to a haunt that simply bought the setup, did nothing special, had minimal attendance prior, and numbers STILL took off, could you provide that?

You have 23 full size billboard within a 75 mile radius, have a phenomenal paintball plug and play, and have nailed the science. Obviously your numbers are through the roof. And while I don't doubt that you are committed to excellence and quality, will you sell a setup to anyone that wants one, even if it means a possible financial disaster?

I think it should be emphasized that this setup, with proper marketing, advertising, and promotions, as well as good PR could really help any attraction to diversify and open themselves to new customers. Of this I am sure.

I simply want to protect my people's best interest by helping them to realize that while your setup is the best, it means nothing if the world (or at least their area) knows nothing about them.

Thanks for your post, and I hope you understand my viewpoint. I simply don't want a hasty decision to mean a fiscal disaster for the people who may be interested in your setup.

Take care.

Keegan

[NightmareAftershockLLC]

Also, Greg:

I wasn't turning your offer of a phone call down. I am far too busy for the next few weeks to sit down and have a lengthy 30-45 minute conversation. I can be doing other things while typing these responses, not so much when I'm on the phone. (Don't want you to listen to me use the restroom! Lol)

However, if after my people decide to go with your setup, I will call, and would love to pick your brain a bit, if that's alright?

Thanks so much!

Keegan

[drfrightner]

Couple more things...

I told Greg that before it was all said and done I would know more about how to run one of these things than anyone and I feel I'm right. I have a very unique situation as Greg pointed out and the biggest difference between what I was doing and what Greg does is that I don't have some massive field and can separate the rest of my attraction from the hayride.

HOnestly what Greg does did not work for my situation I had to learn on the fly what to do or not to do... I learned many things which I shared with Greg. Originally Greg said to buy safety costumes from one company and those turned out to be a total disaster, I ended up buying masks from Allen 'House of Boo' and those are GREAT! Additionally we learned as we went along what actually was safer for the actors than what wasn't. The stuff we originally bought wasn't NOT GOOD... that was wasted money. The stuff we ended up doing which we created on our own was 10 times better and should have done that from the word go.

No matter how you slice it the stuff is HOT and over heats the actors and no matter how much padding you put on they get bruised and hot or both.

However we did learn what worked best.

Additionally the biggest difference between my show and Gregs is let everyone through my hayride where as Gregg upcharged his so fewer of the overall customers took the ride. I had to give rides to 5000 people in ONE NIGHT... I doubt ANYONE in the country did that. It was NOT EASY it was stressful and a near nightmare.

If you are NOT doing many people then I could see how it would be much more manageable... I think that is the main point here. Are you trying to do one like I did it well then its a total nightmare if you are doing it as some upcharged thing then its a whole other.

I also learned many things about keeping these safe... for example which I shared with Gregg the trailers need shut off valves so that if something goes wrong it would cut the air to the guns in a second. I also learned you could run the air pressure at half what was suggested this made the trailers go longer on a tank.

As for paintballs NO WAY IN HELL was I going to buy those balls that were suggested they were DOUBLE the cost... the balls I bought did the job and I got them for half the money. See that is the thing here... if you are going to give rides to 30 to 40 thousand people then you could spend up to $200,000 operating this thing or more.

Allen I totally don't agree with you sorry bud... a regular hayride is better than this and I don't think this should replace a regular hayride ever. There is nothing that is going to compare to a headless horseman style hayride to shooting paintballs. Sorry!

This is a novelty type of attractions where you set it up and charge for it separate and that is if you have room for it... but to put 40 or 50k people through it HOLY COW its hard.

We are strongly considering doing it again but we are thinking of breaking it off from the main attraction and up charging like Gregg does and hoping about 25% less people go on the ride this would make it more manageable.

I also did other things different ... I purchased a two stage compressor so I could fill up my tanks all night long and if I hadn't done this I wouldn't have survived. I would strongly suggest to anyone who did this to buy one its a MUST HAVE! They cost about $17,000.00 for everything.

The long and short is I had this done like you wouldn't believe but it was stressful and hard to operate... our attraction was as safe as you could make it. Every single thing I could do to make it safe for my staff and customers was done and it was expensive.

Many of the things I did could have been avoided if I was taking people out in the middle of a field somewhere far far away from my regular customers. So if you have a situations like that you could do it much cheaper.

Let me just say that everything depends on what kind of set up you have whether its going to be cheap or expensive.

If anyone does get this set up call me and I'd be happy to tell you what I learned because I learned in the most extreme conditions tight quarters and over 5000 riders in one night. I think I got it! LOL

In closing I think Greg work is really nice and I think if you have the right situation you could make some money with this but I would ONLY do this as a up charged attraction like Gregg is doing... I also would NOT replaced a traditional hayride with it either.

And lastly I would say and I strongly encourage you to use animated targets not live actors.

Larry

[austind]

Keegan I think the term "you need to learn to walk before you run" is fitting for the subject of Zombie Safari for you right now. You guys may not be ready to take the financial steps to do this, I would suggest putting more money towards your marketingof the haunt first and grow your customer base. When you get a bigger customer base the expense of a Zombie Safari will be a little easier decision for you. I will say that your marketing dollars seem light and you should be looking at spending $2-$3 per customer to achieve a good growth rate for the next 2 years. Unless you have deep pockets I don't think you are ready for a big commitment like this, you just don't have the customer base or marketing in place. Good luck

[N2SPOOKINU]

If you stopped by our booth at TW you noticed we are now offering our own line of animations we designed just for our attractions. They run off of 110v or 12v so you dont have to run air or electric in the field. We sold a bunch of these and look forward to increasing our product line in the near future.
Basically, we noticed a need for animations. Our customers needed something to lighten the load on their actors and these are the key. We realized if it moves they shoot at it so we went to work on the DCmations line. Its a great alternative to actors or an added bonus to them.
I agree with Larry, he had a very unique attraction to work with and he did the best with what he had. However it would have been easier to operate had it been designed for our attractions instead of a hayride.
Keegan, I dont know what kind of megga haunt you think I am running but we dont do 40-50k. We are in a small city with 100k people tucked in the middle of Missouri between the monster haunts of St. Louis and Kansas City. We do around 20k patrons. Our advertizing budget is much more than I would like to pay but the billboards I get for $350 ea. per month. I like the billboards. Its one of my favorite advertizing tools besides our facebook and website.
I'm not going to say that your going to be rolling on a bed full of money if you buy my trailers. I was simply stating my clients are very pleased with the results they got from purchasing our attractions.
This is still a relatively new product on the market. We started offering them to the public last year. Transworld was our first show and we did very well.
Its simple, I give you the names of some of my clients and you call them and ask their opinion. One of my clients started from scratch last year building a haunt, Zombie Safari, corn maze, pumpkin patch, spiderwebb, plus much more. He said our attraction was his most popular event. I'm not trying to sell you trailers. They sell themselves. You either want them or you dont. We have clients with attendance numbers from 5000 to 70000. so I cant tell you what will work for you and what wont.
Its a risk just like a haunted attraction. Everyone in this business knows the risks of any attraction but I will say changing some lighting and a few props isnt goin to get you the bang you need to increase your attendance in a major way.
If you want the contact info you know how to get it. 573-881-7061

Greg

[NightmareAftershockLLC]

Black plastic and foam props changed over to animations, diverse lighting, sound, better actors, advertising, and promotions will increase numbers. It's proven. Telling me otherwise is insulting to not only myself but anyone that does design work, haunt redesigns, layouts, etc.

I appreciate the information, but again, even at 375 a piece not to mention install and tear down, you're looking at a budget of almost 10 grand in billboards alone. We aren't there yet. 20k is BEYOND a respectable number, and eventually I would like us to be there, but lets face it : I've been to your haunt. It was great before you added the paintball stuff. I understand that there is a risk, but wouldn't it be smarter to make sure we are advertised out and already great on all of our other attractions before dumping money into another attraction?

Mom always taught me... Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. All told I'm looking at $35,000-38,000 for the trailers, scenes, and start up paint, promotional materials, etc. Can you imagine what that could do for the other attractions without a paintball setup? Priorities are key.


You don't buy a BMW if you can't afford the gas, just as you don't buy a 35,000 setup without the means to advertise and promote out the wazoo, agreed?

[NightmareAftershockLLC]

Side note, honest question, no bullshit, real man to real man, prior to paintball, what were your numbers? Honestly? I want a truthful answer. If you went 5k-20k in 2 years I'd be blown away, but I doubt that is the case.

You established yourself, had a great thing, probably 10-15k, came up with this concept, ran with it, and now are 25-40% greater in sales....?

Lets just say that your haunted attractions (two of them I went through at the time, one was a tent, one wasnt) still were (in 09) better than some of these other haunts I am referring to.....

[N2SPOOKINU]

Question, not trying to be rude but if they dont have the funds to advertize more than $2300 where are they getting the funding for a set of trailers? Its an investment in the attraction but if they are using black plastic for walls because they cant afford plywood then I'm not sure what this thread is all about other than trying to trash my product.

[N2SPOOKINU]

This is my last comment on this thread. Our Zombie Paintball Attraction was an upcharge for our guests. 90% of our customers did ALL of our attractions. We saw an increase in sales to families and young people that normally dont go to haunted houses. Once they were on the property they wanted to experience all of our attractions.
Getting people on your property is your main goal. Entertaining them while they are there is the best way to get them coming back.
We saw an increase in t-shirt sales, hoodie sales, concession sales all because we offered our customers many things to purchase while on our property.
If your not upselling merchandise and other attractions while they are there your missing out on a perfect opportunity to make more money.

Greg

[austind]

Keegan if you think that this will make or break your haunt you have the wrong idea about how to run a business. You need to have a good base before you go into expanding in other directions. This won't make your haunt but if you are not ready to handle all the aspects of adding this it will break your haunt. Like I said earlier this may be something to put on the back burner till you have the base in place to support it. Don't stretch your self to thin and let things get out of control, stay focus on your core business untill you are ready to take the next step. It is ok to dream about the future and plan as long as you don't loose site of the path to success.