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  • #46
    Keegan you will find true numbers are hard to come by on a public forum in our industry. If you want information like that you need to start a private dialog via the phone. The guys that do big numbers tend to under state how many customers they have and the guys doing lower inflat thier numbers. That may have something to do with this being largely a cash business. I know I have been looking into buying trailers and I looked up people that owned them on the Internet and called them. All of them were happy with the response they got from thier customers. Then I talked to Greg and he gave me a few more, but I never called them. I figure my way was at least a blind test and not some one close to Greg. All I can say is I have done some business with Greg and will say that a hand shake is good enough for me when dealing with him. He has alway done what he has said and I have only heard good things from other people who have delt with him. So my best advice is in a few weeks when you have time pick up the phone and talk to him on what he thinks you need to be ready for his product. He won't sell you something that won't fit your need. Good luck and stay the course.
    Phatman

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    • #47
      I have to agree with Gregg and simply in general ... this should be an up charged attraction. Its very unique as I stated that 3D haunts are unique I think one of the problems is simply that if you do a 3D and its just a 3D its not very good. I think with the zombie hayride if you just rest on that its like ahhh been there done that. I think like I said we've proven without any shadow of a doubt that a 3D haunted house can be awesome year and year out...

      You guys come through our haunt and everyone says the same thing every year that they loved the 3D haunted house... why? We keep investing and we keep trying to reinvent... and I think 3D haunts are novelty attractions and should never be a solo haunt. However I think if you put the same amount of time and care into them they can be more than just a man Mr. Wayne ... LOL

      I think our 3D haunted house has created an identity for itself and never once in 5 years have I ever considered taking it out for something else, while I see haunt after haunt take out their 3D or change the theme. I think I've proven that its better to invest, reinvent, and improve! Are you tired of our 3D haunt or do haunt owners look forward to seeing it?

      I think with a paintball hayride we have the same issue ... its a novelty attraction. Are they scary NO NOT AT ALL... but could they be? Yes if we are willing to invent in over the top FX that take it to the next level. Are they more than simply shooting some actors out in the open... not really. So the point here is yes its a novelty attraction, and without some sort of re imagination or investment to make it seem more than just a man Mr Wayne I think it will wear off and your customers will be like been there done that.

      I think you have to be totally committed to it for the long haul, ready to start the first year with the novelty and let that sell it, then move to the next level year by year by year... I personally don't envision it being an actor attraction but rather big monsters, things happening over your head, around every corner, great set design, more like a interactive targeting dark ride at Disneyland.

      This will cost a lot of money a ton actually... but then I think you'd have something that would be a highlight reel attraction. How committed are you?

      How committed am I to that end? I don't know because it would be something that would cost a ton but in the end might be worth it... these are all things you must ponder, consider, and think through. Its what I'm doing now... I see the potential and I also see the skyrocket cost of operating it.

      I think if you stay with it you must go all out to create a dark ride type of attraction just with paintballs. Its a builder not a one trick pony because you won't get your investment back the first year I don't think.

      Sky is the limit ... let me continue to think about this!

      Larry
      Larry Kirchner
      President
      www.HalloweenProductions.com
      www.BlacklightAttractions.com
      www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
      www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

      Comment


      • #48
        Austin, Larry, Greg, Allen, etc: thanks.

        In short, I appreciate the information.

        I believe strongly that anything you set your mind to will become a success with dedication, time, effort, and money. Half-assing anything will not get you anywhere in this industry, and if anything people will go out of their way to avoid your attraction or event if it is half-assed.

        I am taking away from this a few major points, please correct me if I misunderstood anything:

        1) Upselling is key. Allowing the customer to get in the gate for one price, seeing the paintball attraction, and selling that attraction at an additional price is effective and works?

        2) Advertising is crucial. Building or buying any event or attraction without the public knowing it exists is detrimental. We need to, if buying this paintball setup, market to all ages, increase advertising budget, and not let our other attractions slump while focussing on the new event. WOM (word of mouth) is the biggest advantage or disadvantage once our customers leave our event.

        3) Protect our actors. Typical paintball padding will not suffice. We need to work to not only protect our actors but also give them financial or additional compensation for being shot at multiple times per night.

        4) Buy quality paint. Typical balls are too heavy duty even at lower pressures than Greg's custom balls that are softer, and have more of a water base ensuring a clean look after every night.

        5) Not alone. The attraction is not a stand-alone event. It must be marketing and sold in addition to the regular attractions.

        One last question: Greg do these trailers come with a sound system to play music?

        Thanks all for your help, I appreciate it immensely.

        The black plastic thing was a metaphor, not to be taken literally. My objective was to imply that to do a brand new attraction without ensuring the others are up to par is a waste, and this paintball setup is designed to ENHANCE my customers experience, not be the ONLY good experience.

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        • #49
          I went to a zombie paintball in Maryland last year at a charity haunt. It was ok, the tractor was great but the guys loading were very unorganized and dropping paint balls on the ground while handling them looking discombobulated and the actors were just standing around. While this is no fault to the tractor manufacturer, not sure if Greg made it or not but the event itself was lacking more than anything. I did enjoy shooting the zombies and I must admit my daugher and I were actively looking for weak spots in their suits, just for fun lol Mainly because they stood there instead of really moving around.


          I can see where costs would really add up and it wasn't close to being scary but it was unique and fun.

          DA

          Comment


          • #50
            If you are not organized you will sink faster than the Titanic. I don't understand what all the arguing is for it should be nothing more than a discussion about pros and cons. We can have a pro / con debate about animations or actors, make up or masks, hayride or a trail and the list goes on.

            They don't have to get personal or anything. Paintball hayrides are flat out NOT stand alone events, they will fail. Paintball hayrides I think are add on attractions with an upcharge and even then you will spend a couple years getting your money back. Its the most expensive thing I've ever done, and I'm not sure if I regret it or not. It boils down to how committed you are to something...

            But I think the best suited for these events are attractions with LOTS AND LOTS OF ROOM and Gregg for example has just that lots of room and I bet he has a lot less difficulties than we do. Its different and I think if you put enough money into it and I mean a lot of money into it you could make something super cool... I put tons of money into starting but now I'm seeing it will takes tons more than that to make it long term successful.

            I think it can be very successful if you do everything 110% just like with my example of a 3D haunt... but in the end Gregg has it right you need lots of space to make it work best and it should be upcharged.

            I did not upcharge and I don't have lots of space so I don't think I'm the perfect example.

            Larry
            Larry Kirchner
            President
            www.HalloweenProductions.com
            www.BlacklightAttractions.com
            www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
            www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

            Comment


            • #51
              FYI... I think we are going to do it again however this time around it will be an UP CHARGE and TWO we will feature NO ACTORS!

              I would NEVER do this again with ACTORS its just not safe! I'm ordering 20 fiberglass zombies from Unit 70, and we'll build animations for them here in our shop. So we'll have 20 pop out targets for people to shoot at, and the attraction will cost an upcharge of $5.00 more making the highest ticket $30.00

              We are hoping this cuts down about 25% of the attendance to the paintball hayride.
              Larry Kirchner
              President
              www.HalloweenProductions.com
              www.BlacklightAttractions.com
              www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
              www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

              Comment


              • #52
                Larry has a very unique setup and in his case it was very expensive to run because of all the added safety features he had to install because his attraction was not built for paintball purposes. However, our clients were able to construct their attractions with much lower costs because they were not confined to a minimum square footage.
                I have designed attractions where minimum space would work well and your que line is actually a large majority of your actors.
                Its hard to explain but it works well. Before anyone asks, NO your que line is not getting shot with paintballs "technically" lol.
                The biggest problem was Larry's attraction was already built so thats what he had to work with.
                Anyway, I understand the questions about expense and Larry's view point but I also want people to understand that Larry's attraction was very difficult to operate. He did a GREAT job with a small space and again I applaude him for that.
                His concerns for his actors are justified in his attraction. Its just not safe to be that close.
                When we did a demonstration during Transworld at Creepyworld last year my actors were nervous about being that close to the trailers and so was I. They did a great job and found out it wasnt as bad as it looked but were glad to be back home in our own containment center where the distance was ok.
                These paintball attractions are designed to be an upcharge and an added revenue for haunts and corn mazes and they do increase attendance. If you have any questions give me a call. 573-881-7061

                Greg
                Zombie Protection Services L.L.C.
                Greg Allen
                scarygreg@andersonfarms.com
                www.andersonfarms.com

                Comment


                • #53
                  Couple things... I think its an expensive attraction to operate no matter what type of set up you have. The cost to buy the wagons, get tractors, get the system, all the staff that is required, paintballs, any added safety measures, no its more expense all around the board no matter what size of facilty you have. That is without question.

                  As for safety no matter how close or far away you are doesn't matter shooting projectiles at people is always going to create issues... no actor can go out there without gear on and you can't pad yourself head to toe inch by inch because they'll suffocate! The heat in the armor we provided which was basically head to toe which I wouldn't suggest ANYONE go out there without causes over heating issues with the actors. On cold nights it helps but when its warm good luck keeping people going at it. Almost impossible.

                  We had to provide tons of water, tons of guys to check on people, constant monitoring because we did not want anyone getting hurt.

                  All I did all year was investigate and continued to buy more and more different kinds of protection. I think by the end of the season we had it the best it could be... the biggest thing of all and this is no slight on Gregg but he told us you had to run the guns at like 800 pounds otherwise the guns would not work, well we ran them as low as 400 which is half and they still worked great. The only issue was on occasion some guns would get backed up then we'd run some water through them and back in business. My suggestion is to run them at 400 to 500 and save the air.

                  So overall I'm merely sharing what I learned and would be happy to help ANYONE who is doing this with my suggestions feel free to call me 314 504 3970. I can help you figure out how to run this at the highest capacity.

                  In short and let me be honest here... Gregg's work is really incredible he does everything he says he's going to do and then some. NO one has all the answers from the person who is building these trailers to the person who did the first zombie paintball hayride. Everyone has a different situation, everyone has different attendance, to anything and everything between so our experiences will all teach us different lessons.

                  I want anyone doing paintball hayrides to be safe, and do it right! I think Gregg has a lot of insight on doing just that but just remember every situation is different!

                  My main tips are as follows:

                  1) Use animated targets
                  2) Dont' buy expensive paint balls there is no need for it
                  3) Add a shut off valve to every trailer just in case you must shut down the system
                  4) Experiment with air pressures go with whatever the lowest setting you can get away with because it takes time to change air tanks
                  5) Make your guests wear safety goggles we did a persons eyes are they single most fragile thing to injure
                  6) buy a two stage air compressor this comes in very handy
                  7) I agree with gregg these should be up charged events so do a budget and charge according
                  8) if you decide to do this... stick with it for the long haul make it more than just a zombie paintball because otherwise the novelty will wear off fast

                  In closing I think you can get some great marketing benefits to this attraction and especially if you are committed to making it more than just rolling around in the woods and shooting targets. You could make money with this but I think it will take a couple years so control costs because they can spiral out of control quickly.

                  Lastly I would make sure that you purchase these systems from someone who understand the safety elements involved and talk to people who've done them so you can learn all the ins and outs so you can be the most successful out of the hole.

                  Larry
                  Larry Kirchner
                  President
                  www.HalloweenProductions.com
                  www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                  www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                  www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Thanks again everyone for the insight, now we just have to wait to see what they prefer: High investment possible return, medium investment low-medium return.

                    I appreciate the feedback and information from all!

                    -K

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Just an update here... we are going forward with our zombie paintball but we are taking everything we learned last year and adding it to 2013. We are doing several things different see below:

                      1) The entire attraction will be ACTOR FREE!

                      2) We will make the attraction 110% DARK this way cool sets, detail or any of that won't be needed. The paintballs tear up everything so by going totally dark we won't have to do much work to the hayride itself. The tractor will trigger lights and animations to be lit up so you can fire away. Sound and lights will activate only when we want it to revealing zombies to fire at.

                      3) We will build 24 animated targets from hoards of zombies to shoot at to pop up zombies everywhere. We have some awesome idea's on how to trigger the animations and what type to build.

                      4) The attraction will be an UPCHARGED attraction... in other words you have to pay extra to ride the hayride. This will cut down on how many people ride the attraction which is very important. We are hoping to cut down the amount of people who ride by 50% then the hayride will become more manageable.

                      Overall I think the amount of dollars spent to operate the attraction will decrease plus the stress on everyone will lower as well. I still am not sure if you can make money or not because the cost of operation is still VERY high but we'll see what if anything this changes. I know for a fact that we'll sell everything after 2013 and do something different. We'll sell it because we like to mix up everything every couple of years, so if anyone wants to put dibs on it now let me know.

                      Larry
                      Larry Kirchner
                      President
                      www.HalloweenProductions.com
                      www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                      www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                      www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Where are you purchasing your animated targets from?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          We are making them ourselves. We have three guys who build animations one guy use to work for Disney Land fixing animations at Pirates of the Caribbean. Actually he came up with a super clever way of triggering the animations. Unit 70 will make the bodies for us out of fiberglass.

                          Larry
                          Larry Kirchner
                          President
                          www.HalloweenProductions.com
                          www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                          www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                          www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            animations

                            We also sell animated targets as well as the Zombie Paintball trailers. They range in price from $400-450 depending on the type you are looking for. We sell 5 different animated characters. They run on 110V or 12VDC. If you need more info give me a call 573 881 7061.

                            Greg
                            Zombie Protection Services L.L.C.
                            Greg Allen
                            scarygreg@andersonfarms.com
                            www.andersonfarms.com

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              The information on how to actually trigger the animations from the hayride would actually be very much appreciated. We are doing our own this year, but cant figure out a great way to trigger the animations. IR sensors dont work well with the wind and brush moving around. IT would really help us out. Thanks Larry. Good information on the paintball!

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                              • #60
                                Bumping this. I dont want it to get lost. I could really use a response to this. Thanks very much.

                                Rich

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