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  • #16
    Originally posted by austind View Post
    Lenard I know you and Larry don't always see eye to eye, but you don't get on Hauntworld much and some of the people may hold that against you. As far as Dark goes don't take it personal he is that way with everyone, how someone feels that their opinion is relevant when he has not been to any trade show in modern history nor has owned a haunt I really can't understand. But I am questioning the move to the Houston retail show in my own mind. I was at Hauntcon this year and will say that I enjoyed it very much, like I said earlier the trade show floor was not expressive, class were good, haunt tours were very good, and the best part is the socialization between the other haunters. Your show was more relaxed than TW and it was nice, lets face it by the time your show date came around if your a serious haunter your big expenditures have already been done and the trade show floor is not the most important part. Now the truth is I am still on the fence about attending your show this year and it will be heavily determined by tour pre show tour and how many of my Dallas friends will be coming. I wish you luck and hope this works out for all my friends at Hauntcon.
    Phatman why the negativity towards me you and I have not met? I don't have a haunt and no one knows of yours. And why do you say I have been to trade shows you know that to be fact? I've never been to hauntcon but in the last 10 years I've gone to Transworld 8 times, iaapa a couple and a few MHC cons. I've been to NHC once as well so chances are I've been to as many as you so learn the facts before you assume.

    DA

    Comment


    • #17
      I did an interview with Leonard earlier this week that will be on the new Big Scary Show (out later today) where he explains his reasons. I would invite you to tune in and listen...
      http://www.bigscaryshow.com
      http://www.rabidbadger.org

      Comment


      • #18
        Leonard,

        No one is against you or hates you in fact for the past several years we have tried very hard to alert people about Hauntcon ... I've even called you multiple times asking you to get on here the same way MHC does or the way people do about Transworld and let people know about your show. We have put blogs up on our front page about your show multiple times. I've spent my time trying to reach out to you about how to help you and your show...

        In fact I put up a facebook and link to your show yesterday on our facebook...

        I don't think you get it Leonard you got it backwards ... this is a place for discussion, communication and sometimes debate. This isn't some wide open forum, unlike many other forums I hardly approve ANYONE to be a member, if you are not a member you can't post, you can't see photos, blah, blah. The point of this place is to express your opinions.

        But just for a moment lets look at what I've read on facebook or seen come through Yahoo email groups ... overwhelming against what you are doing. People are saying things like aren't those the people who forced the split, they didn't want us now they want us back because things aren't going well for them. You know nothing can compare to racism of the 50's and 60's nothing... but a haunter got to feel a bit of that when we were forced to wear colored coded bracelets, or we couldn't even walk into that section if we couldn't prove we spent X amount with a retailer.

        Yeah I remember that... we aren't good enough we have to go to the back of the bus. I remember ONE PERSON ME telling Transworld which at that time was run by the Passis family to go F*CK THEMSELVES... and I rounded up every single major vendor at the time and we told them we'd all leave. They changed the policy but the policy was created by the Halloween Retail people... bottom line is this their show struggles and they want the haunt industry back.

        Now that is RICH my friend... hey I'm not against them, and I hold no grudges and as they say time can heal all wounds but honestly you really think this is what is best for your show? Almost everyone I've seen make a comment about it ANYWHERE is negative about it...

        BULLET POINT FACTS:

        1) IAAPA is 100 times bigger than Transworld and way more valuable than the HPC show or Hauntcon or MHC or anything else and because of its show dates (NOVEMBER) maybe only 1 or 2% of vendors and buyers go. So you are going to somehow break that trend? Doubt it!

        2) January Show Dates... that is going to inspire haunt vendors who are DEEP in production on new equipment they are just going to fly away to a new show? Doubt it! Wrong time a year once again.

        3) Location: Its to far away... you shouldn't have gone there the first time. Its not really a haunted house hotbed #1 and its as far south as south gets. I suggested St. Louis to TW for two reasons... one is location because most people in this industry want a city that is fair for driving and two cost St Louis is cheap the convention center is cheap and TW has kept the prices low for booths really low. Houston is not cheap and its not centrally located by any means.
        For this industry and you should already know this LOCATION and CHEAP... two key words every haunter knows. LOL

        4) Hauntcon: The spirit of your show is the opposite of what you are doing so this also confuses me totally. I thought it was about haunt tours not Halloween retail. And now that you are going head to head against TW some people may now choose to not work with you at all ... just all around bad move.

        Leonard let me say for the record that your show was failing because all conventions should have large vendor space... it had shrunk almost every year since the first couple of years. That isn't taking a shot its pointing out a reality. I called you multiple times with suggestions trying to point you in the right direction... this isn't it.

        Hauntcon could get all its steam back if you went to New York, Boston, Philly area, Baltimore (close to philly and New York and Boston btw), or how about Atlanta home to Netherworld. Sometimes I think you don't want the haunt in a city to be bigger than the show, but that is exactly how it should have been and should be... that helps your show.

        You could have done a lot better for yourself and your show and salvaged this show by picking the RIGHT CITIES where there is a haunt everyone wnats to see that is near 100's of haunted houses... but now you are going back to Houston again! Hey you can take these comments as not liking you but actually its the opposite!

        Larry
        Larry Kirchner
        President
        www.HalloweenProductions.com
        www.BlacklightAttractions.com
        www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
        www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

        Comment


        • #19
          Leonard,

          This post will be shorter and to the point... I am for anything that helps the haunted house industry. I've been the biggest advocate we've ever had pouring tens of thousands of dollars trying to help promote this industry. I will take on anyone who even thinks about trying to take advantage of people in this industry. Do I think you are doing that? Just so you know I think it was a mistake that TW would not allow you into their show last year because of some rude email blasts you put out about their show... I wasn't in favor of that. I told them that is just part of business everyone else plays up their products and or haunts play up their haunts over their competition as well... that was nothing new. I was like who cares what Leonard emailed everyone... you agreed with them you wouldn't do that but you did it anyone so they kicked you out. I think it was wrong they did that... I saw this link up with Houston coming a mile away after that happened.

          I think in your mind you are doing what you think is best for YOUR SHOW and YOU PERSONALLY... and no one can fault you for that! I would do what I think is best for my business as well. I just want you to know that I myself and many others do not feel this is in your shows best interest ... on your website you claim you are listening to the people who attend your show, you want to change because of comments people make. So don't be offended by someone offering their opinion that is what the forums are for. Seems like you did... but again you claim you want to know peoples opinions but maybe you really don't.

          Bottom line is this... I think this is going to destroy the spirit of your show, I think just like IAAPA, this industry is no longer interested in Halloween retail, and lastly no one is interested in going to a show in Houston in January where as before haunts are second fiddle to retail. Haunted House industry has come a long long long way here... doing what you are doing is going backwards.

          Why would we run to them... they should be running back to us. But at the end of the day your show won't save their show and their show won't save your show. Just so you know you are MORE than welcome to promote your show here, and give details all you want and I encourage you to do just that. INFORM PEOPLE... I've told you this many times before.

          I'm for the haunt industry so I'm for your show, and all the other shows as well... but that doesn't mean I'm not going to share my opinions with you about what I or others would think would help the show. I have nothing against Halloween retail show... in fact I'd love to attend if it wasn't in January so far away. TW wasn't happy we put an ad in the last magazine about the Houston show... but I told them the same as we will tell you all of these shows should have the same opportunity to promote themselves on our website or that website or this email blast or magazine or whatever. You are more than welcome here...

          Just remember there is a difference between not liking you and offering advice and opinions... don't confuse the two.

          Lastly let me say this... if you get 1 million people thru your show great for you! I'm not cheering against you again just pointing out I don't think this is going to work out the way you think it is. Take my advice go to Boston, New York, Philly, Baltimore, Atlanta and you will quickly learn your show will triple in attendance and your vendors will come back. Houston we have a problem and it has nothing to do with Halloween Retail... its the wrong city for your show.

          Period!

          Larry
          Larry Kirchner
          President
          www.HalloweenProductions.com
          www.BlacklightAttractions.com
          www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
          www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

          Comment


          • #20
            Lenard I would have to agree with Larry on quite a few points. He has put post about Hauntcon on here, I do believe that you do over look input from other people, even people that you should be trusting and listening to. ( you own group that put on Hauntcon with you ). As I told you and your wife at MHC that I did not want to go back to TX for the next show and most that attended Dallas that I talked to said the same. ( let me correct that, the ones that did not live in TX.) I think you put on a good show and you really do care about this industry so that is why I came to your defense on here when some people post things just be jerks, but if you were on here more you would have a bit more insight into what people are looking for.

            As for you Dark all you need to look back at your post over the last year and see who is negative and has even had his post remove before. I try to be constructive on the forum not destructive. I am not even a Lenard fan and won't go to classes he teaches, but you make statements like you are on the middle school play ground. Please try to conduct your self civility on the forums and not make it personal. And if you do make statement you should let the man know your true identity, that's only fair so he can know when he met yoo And as far as I am I guess I am just a nobody.
            Phatman

            Comment


            • #21
              Just what i know personally.

              From talking to you on several occasions Leonard. You probably don't remember me too but. I suggested you bring Hauntcon to Missouri way before Transworld came to St. Louis. You told me point blank that you didn't think any haunts would open for you. I told you I thought Larry and a lot of other haunters would open for you. You missed the boat on that one! And actually I don't agree with Darkangel often but I have to say I agree on the attitude or vibe you have giving me the same feeling of your arrogance and smugness to me and other haunters. From being in your seminars ect. It really turned me off as a haunter. And the fact that your the self proclaimed expert but don't have a running successful haunt is just really sad. Im sorry your magazine and now hauntcon is now nonexistent or changing names or whatever you want to say. Own or ran by other people other than you or partnered or whatever. Good luck w it! But everyone saw it coming eventually! Damon
              www.frightmasters.weebly.com
              Damon Carson

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by austind View Post
                Lenard I would have to agree with Larry on quite a few points. He has put post about Hauntcon on here, I do believe that you do over look input from other people, even people that you should be trusting and listening to. ( you own group that put on Hauntcon with you ). As I told you and your wife at MHC that I did not want to go back to TX for the next show and most that attended Dallas that I talked to said the same. ( let me correct that, the ones that did not live in TX.) I think you put on a good show and you really do care about this industry so that is why I came to your defense on here when some people post things just be jerks, but if you were on here more you would have a bit more insight into what people are looking for.

                As for you Dark all you need to look back at your post over the last year and see who is negative and has even had his post remove before. I try to be constructive on the forum not destructive. I am not even a Lenard fan and won't go to classes he teaches, but you make statements like you are on the middle school play ground. Please try to conduct your self civility on the forums and not make it personal. And if you do make statement you should let the man know your true identity, that's only fair so he can know when he met yoo And as far as I am I guess I am just a nobody.

                Phatman he doesn't need to know my identity what's the fascination with knowing identities around here its a freeking message board not court. I don't post my name and personal info because I simply don't want you to know it its that simple there's no rule forcing us to so why volunteer it it has no effect in my honest opinion so don't ask for my personal info if we are friends you'd know it.

                Bottom like I introduced myself to Leonard every time and we spoke a few minutes each. To me he seemed like he wants to do a haunt in VA or knows some haunters here and he seemed like he resented seeing another haunt. But the point is not about my relationship with Leonard or anyone I just think its not going to do well he doesn't have a good track record for success.

                DA

                Comment


                • #23
                  First Larry was saying to Lenard that he should be on the forums more and what happens next, people here just wanted to stir stuff up with him. That does not tell a person that they are welcome to come on here and post. Like I said I do not like Lenard's class myself, but I have talked to many that do, when I want to learn I go to people I trust. I just did a free haunt actors class here and I brought in some of the best in the industry from all around the country to teach it and I paid for everything. That's just the way I am, but I did not go and say that other guys that teach classes are crappy to boost my ego. Everyone has their flaws just like I do, Im sure Larry does and Lenard does, this does not give me the right to point out their flaws without giving the good too. It does this industry no good for anyone to fail on any level and I am hopeful that this will be something that will work for Hauntcon. I feel there are some second tier shows that are surching for a identity and if they don't differentiate themselves from the others they will not be successful. If you notice when I make a critical comment about something I try to back it up with a positive. ( not usually in your case ). I learned this many years ago on here from a friend of mine Allen Hopps, and took it to heart. Sorry If you think that I don't like you but that is not the case, I don't know you, just know the things you say are some times ment to be hurtful to the people you are being critical of and that is not needed here. You have basically bash a young man with special needs on here because you were not sensitive to the others in this forum. I have written this not to hurt you but maybe make you aware of the way you come across sometimes.
                  Phatman

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Lets try to stay on topic as opposed to typing in circles. try not to bash or be an ass on purpose.
                    www.Stiltbeaststudios.com
                    http://www.youtube.com/user/Stiltbea...s?feature=mhee

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Sorry Allen you know me my name really should be ASStin. Are planning on being at Hauntcon next year? I assumed you would because it is in Texas. I know Tater is and Brandon from ScareProps. I have not talked to Shane at Brutal Rust in a few weeks but he is a Texas vendor too so I would think so.
                      Phatman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Stiltbeast studios will have a booth at Hauntcon, I will be on a cruise. I will miss it....a little.
                        www.Stiltbeaststudios.com
                        http://www.youtube.com/user/Stiltbea...s?feature=mhee

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Is that the Bloody Mary cruise? I think that is the sam weekend. I would have like to have gone on that if I knew what end of the makeup brush to use. The last makeup job I did we were still doing raccoon eyes.
                          Phatman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Easy EASY guys! I mean come on! Btw, I'm not coming on here (surprisingly) to drop my show, but to actually have something to do with the conversation. I know I'm a dropper lol Anyways, why must we all have bad feelings towards each other? I mean seriously? This industry is nothing but politics, it's all about who you know, not about what you do. I've honestly never felt talked-down to by Leonard, however, I've felt very ignored and belittled by two people on this thread that everyone kisses their ass! (Or at least thinks everyone does.) Seriously, this thread began as being where HAuNTCon was going to be at, then turned into a Leonard Bash! Will we please STOP? No wonder I hardly come on this site anymore...
                            Owner & Host - Flatline Radio
                            "Keeping our fingers on the absent pulse of the Haunt Industry."
                            sigpic
                            flatlineradio.podomatic.com

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Darkangel, It seems as though you let someone, in this case Leonard, discourage you. If that was so long ago, it shouldn't have effected you up until recently. I remember back in 2000 and then in 2001 when I first opened Bennett's Curse I had a conversation with Leonard and because we started out in a mall and had a tiny marketing budget, among other factors he told me I was destined for failure. I used that and other doubters as a motivating factor and now Bennett's Curse is a hugely popular haunt with some of the best characters, theming and sets you'll find anywhere. Use what people say good or bad to motivate you. Leonard has his formula which he stands by, but that doesn't mean it will work for you or anyone else. As for opening in Virginia, why not? Maryland has ever dwelled in the shadow of the powerful Philly market, but that too never intimidated us we continue to grow and attract people from that market every year! If you have a good show, you create your own market where none existed before. Create your own following and grow by improving every year and listening to what your customers want.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Couple things...

                                For one this subject is strictly about Hauntcon and the retail show nothing more or less. In sticking to the topic let me be clear that Leonard is more than welcome to come on here and promote that show and inform us as to what is going on with it... Yes I realize it got poked by DA but c'mon that guy does this to everyone. Leonard himself took shots at Transworld last year when he was promoting Hauntcon in mass emails... hence they booted him from attending their show. So Leonard can't cry foul because someone does agree with him, because he doesn't agree with everyone either. I totally disagreed with Transworld not allowing him entry or the ability to buy a booth at their show last year... I for one told them who cares what they mass emailed anyone do you think anyone cares? I told them flat out that was a mistake and right then I saw this Houston show connection coming a MILE AWAY!

                                Which leads me to this... is this what you think is actually going to be good for your show, or getting back at Transworld, or flat out trying to divide up the haunt industry or what. Because honestly I don't see how you thought even for one second that going back to Houston in January NO LESS was a good thing for Hauntcon. I think maybe this is a move by both parties this Halloween retail show and Hauntcon to try and sabotage Transworld.


                                Yes Transworld was upset about it, they got upset about the retail show placing ads in our magazine, and yes they are worried about everything for good reason... certain retail industry people helped torpedo the great show that was in Chicago. But as I've told them, as Gore Galore, Ghost Ride, Ben Armstrong, and multiple more have told them here recently... they have nothing what so ever to worry about.

                                As much as I think a Halloween Retail show would be fun fun fun to visit... I'm not and neither is 99% of the rest of people who own and operate haunted houses. Its so funny when this Transworld Haunt show was starting people screamed they wanted both shows together and now that its haunts only, and they see how great that really is, people feel important, they feel like they belong, and every person there wants to sell to them every single one... that is a feeling you just can't replace.

                                Haunt owners don't go to IAAPA and they are not going to a Halloween retail show either... Hauntcon if its going to stay a show long term needs to look at a better option, different cities where there are massive amounts of haunt owner within 2 or 3 hour distance, NOT DENVER and do haunt tours by plane to Salt Lake City (STUPID), NOT Houston and do haunt tours by 4 hour bus ride to another city ... GO TO A CITY THAT ACTUALLY HAS TONS OF HAUNTED HOUSES LIKE BOSTON, NEW YORK AREA, PHILLY, GO TO ATLANTA for GOD SAKES! And yes SORRY BABY but Netherworld will totally upstage the event itself get over it... its about haunt tours not the show that is what your show is based on!

                                This is what will make Hauntcon work not ... Houston.

                                Again you claim you are listening but I doubt it seriously!

                                Larry
                                Larry Kirchner
                                President
                                www.HalloweenProductions.com
                                www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                                www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                                www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                                Comment

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