Ideas for leads and follow

[tmoore]

Our current fire rules state we must have a lead person and a follow person. If anyone has these rules in their haunts could they weigh on on how they integrate them into the flow of the patrons rather than a hard lead and follow person.

[mrfoos]

For every group? Move to a reasonable state/city... because that's retarded.

[RobfromErie]

If I was you I would find out the exact wording of the rule.

ANY group of 2 or more has a lead person, and a follow person. Does the ruling say they are required to be employees?

And if yes, then GTFO out of that state.

[pickle]

Not sure what "rules" you're referring to but that is not any part of any actual code. Neither IBC (International Building Code) or the IFC (International Fire Code) have codes of a lead or a follow person. Of course these codes are for haunts built to the current specifications under "Special Amusements"/"Dark Rides" under the IBC/IFC guidelines. Since this code/rule is not part of the IBC/IFC , the FM has no real authority to enforce this. Although I'm not a attorney I'm pretty confident this can be challanged (and overturned)...however as with any litigation it will get the FM panties in a knot! But this demand is ridiculous...period! Now if your applying for some sort of temporary permit as a small temporary type of haunt with no fire suppression, proper exits, etc. and you are not completely code compliant than the FM can impose additional measures he deems necessary (very gray area) for a safe operation such as a fire watch, etc. Unfortunately the vast majority of FM tend to ramp up measures & impose their "will" rather than offer to work with the owner...and the state FM allows them this "gray area" to operate in. Bottom line...in my opinion, this is an over reach in authority and a flat out ridiculous demand. Either try & hash it out with the FM or consult with your attorney to force the issue. And I thought my FM in NJ was bad! lol Good luck bud...don't give up!



Pickle

[tmoore]

Thank's for the post's. I am on the fence on how exactly to approach this rule being it is our first year of operation. I have another meeting with the FM tomorrow and this is going to be a discussion point as well as another measure of only 49 total people(Including staff) in the building at any time. Since it is our first year I don't want to rock the boat too much but then again because it is my first year possibly I should be a hardliner on some of these rules if I expect to grow in this city. I don't expect any of the other guidelines will be an issue as the building already is up to their guidelines as far as federal code.

The guidelines in question

A)- Occupancy limit within the building shall not exceed 49 (Including Staff) and shall
be posted at the ticket sales counter and above main entry into the attraction.

C)- Groups shall be limited to 8 customers with a lead escort and follow escort
provided for every group, escorts shall be equipped with emergency flashlights
on person with a communication method supplied also.

[pickle]

To your guideline questions;
a) Occupancy of under 50 puts your use from a Class A to a Class B (generally)
b) This is ridiculous! All of your personel (including actors, security, etc.) should be trained for evacuations & have available flashlites & communication access...but a lead/follow person for every group? assinine!
Ask FM to show you this "code" as it is written! He can't unless he wrote it. If they are holding you to the IBC "Special Amusement" codes than they must be requiring you to have a full suppression, alarm and relay systems? If so these automated systems are all that are required by the current 2012 IBC code....no leads or followers! Trained employees yes but this is idiotic. Exactly what I've been saying for years...if it is written than that is what should be followed...period! Not what the FM feels, thinks or interpets what he would like to see...these "gray areas" are why there is so much confusion , delays & added expenses to owners. If all FM went BY THE CODE THE WAY IT IS WRIITEN there wouldn't be so much misunderstanding of the codes written to protect. Why have a code book thicker than a phone book if everyone is going just interpet the codes the way they want??? Just assinine!



Good Luck Bud,
I feel for you.


Pickle

[Darksidestew]

All our actors were trained and tested. We had to have extinguishers in every scene location. That on top of sprinklers systems and such...

We only had leads and followers, if we ourselves thought the group was trouble.

stewt

[tmoore]

Pickle could you expand upon the differences between Class A and Class B in relation to the number of people? When/if I grow to a larger size haunt I cannot foresee this guideline being feasible unless I regulate to no actors or have very small groups which kill my patrons per hour. As far as the systems the building has full sprinkler, smoke and alarm systems already in place.

[pickle]

Yes, under IBC code, Class A (which is what we as haunt owners fall under) is a "recreation" Assembly. However, under an exemption noted under section 301.1.1, it states "if occupancy loads are under 50 you shall be classified under Class B". These classifications go more towards the general building/occupancy loads, etc. Generally Class A being more stringant than Class B. These different classifications allow for different "Flame Spread" & "Developed Smoke" indexes...Class A being more stringant ratings. You will more than likely be required to follow chapter 4/Section 411-"Special Amusement Buildings". This chapter is basically designed for us. When the FM request "Class A" materials he is basically asking you for "non-combustible" materials. My FM was demanded EVERYTHING had to be "inherently fire retardant"...I argued that point and asked him to show me where it cannot be treated to be equivlent to a inherently fire rated product & he couldn't...I won that debate! Again...way to many "gray areas" that allow for way too much interpetation. You can look these codes up on Google under IBC 2012...but be prepared...trying to follow the codes when they jump around & bounce back & forth is like "whack the gopher" game...around and around you go! Probably best to consult with an architect/engineer who is well versed & possibly have them go with you to have a sit down with the FM. Might be the best $ you'll spend!



Pickle

[Abunai]

Our current fire rules state we must have a lead person and a follow person. If anyone has these rules in their haunts could they weigh on on how they integrate them into the flow of the patrons rather than a hard lead and follow person.

Have you talked to any other haunt owners in the same FM jurisdiction (if there are any) to see how they've addressed these rules?

[tmoore]

I only know of one other haunt in the area and they just integrate the lead person into the theme. I have a walk through with the FM today on the building so it will be discussed more today. Going to try to discuss possible scenarios where at least the lead person is not needed with the final outcome hopefully being neither lead nor follow.

[Darksidestew]

If you you have back passeges like we did your lead and follow can be unseen....we also had overhead catwalks....

Stew