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  • Zoning issue

    OK, I agreed to help a friend open up a Haunted Trail on some 20 acres of land in a mid sized City. They used to run a haunted trail there years ago but they shut it down. Now he wants to open it up, so today I went to one of the City planning people, sat down and asked him what do we need to do to satisfy the City to open. Well I saw the confused look on his face and he said that they do not have a Trail inside the city limits, so he would have to do some research and call me back. Well he called me back ans said that my friends land even though it is located right next to a subway is zoned commercial, so there is no way we could open a commercial event there. He also told me that even though it would only be open on weekends in October it would be considered a amusement and they would not allow that there.................soooo back to square one, anyone have any tips out there?

  • #2
    current Events

    Are there any events being held in your friends area any other time of the year
    Greek festivals,church carnivals,etc etc...
    If so it shows that you can have entertainment.If not -you can petition for
    a change-time consuming-possibly expensive-an not always successful

    Comment


    • #3
      It IS zoned commercial, so you can't have a commercial event there? I'm confused.
      Haunt: DARK REALMS

      Day job: Game Composer/Sound Designer

      My "geek rock" band: Legendary nOObs

      Comment


      • #4
        Having a similar issue.

        I think that the key variables here are;
        1. What is your attraction/event classified as
        2. What classifications of events are allowed on the land zoning that you have

        In our area, the land that we have is considered A-35; agricultural, 35 acres.

        The county is classifying a haunted house as "Amusement, Outside".

        For A-35, an "Amusement, Outside" activity is classified as "S", "Special Permit Needed".....

        So, there are a bunch of hoops we have to go through in order to obtain a "special permit".

        If the land on which we were hoping to host our haunt were zoned "M", ("Industrial".....don't ask me) the activity would be classified as "A", allowed.


        So, it seems that the trick is to match the zoning with the activities allowed for a haunt.


        Our trick will be to either convince the zoning commission that we are not an "Amusement, Outside", or find a property that allows "A" such an event.


        Anyone else have experience with this that will help us convince our county to allow us to run our haunt in our desired area?
        Fright In Falcon Haunted Maze
        http://frightinfalcon.com

        Comment


        • #5
          ZONING ISSUES....the thorn in our sides!

          I have extensive experience with zoning and planning boards...I have dealt with them for nearly 32 years! Unfortunately, many if not most zoning board members are volunteer and have no true experience or understanding of the laws or codes. Many sit on these boards just to help advance a possible career in local politics and rely on "following" others on the board without fully understanding what they are even deciding or voting on. Many of the zoning "officials" I've come up against are completely clueless and are wearing different "hats" within the municipality. I have "schooled" as well as sued zoning and planning boards in the past for their lack of understanding of the codes and/or their complete ignorance/incompetence as zoning board members/officials. Zoning boards can be as the saying goes..."a dime holding up a dollar"! Many times their ignorance (and yes sometimes their arrogance) can completely tank a project that would benefit the community in various ways...and the public never even knows what is being rejected and for what reason.

          While each municipality in each state classifies their various zones by different letters or names they all have a similar/general outline: ie; Highway Business, Neighborhood Business, General Business, Industrial, Residential, etc. While I am not an attorney (but I have learned from some of the best land use attorney's that I've hired over the years at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars) I have found that the key to any type of "attraction" (whether a haunted, Christmas, etc.) is a temporary or special event. Trying to change zoning or land use becomes a long, expensive ordeal that at best you have a 50/50 shot of obtaining an approval. The zoning boards/officials than typically want full engineered site plans requiring, paved parking, curbing, retention ponds, drainage, parking lot lighting, signage, traffic studies, yada, yada...way too expensive for a temporary event.

          If at all possible, the best way to go is a property zoned as a farm. Most states now embrace "Agri-Tourism", which allows a farm owner to use their property for other venues such as hayrides, pumpkin patches, paintball runs, mazes, concerts, etc. to increase their income from sources other than just farming. Most times the states Agri-Tourism regulations super cede any local zoning laws and "fast tracks" the approval/permitting process.

          If that is not possible the next best thing is to go the route of a special event or temporary event as carnival/circuses do. Most (but not all) municipalities will require that these events are held in commercial zoned areas. These types of permits generally allow you to run an event for several weeks or up to a month without the considerations as a permanent venue. If your area has carnivals/circuses come to town, than look to leasing an area that they use for the month of October.

          Probably the one best thing you can do to streamline any of these processes is to "partner" up with a local volunteer group (fire, emt, police explorers, etc.) or some sort of local well known charity. Cut them in on a percentage of the ticket sales or a flat fee donation, etc. By doing so they are generally well respected and receive "streamlined" approvals/permits and many regulations are waived.

          As I mentioned, I've been dealing with the inner workings of these boards for more than 30 years as a developer/general contractor attempting to obtain approvals for numerous projects and have learned to "speak" their language, know what their looking for and to help "guide" them to a common sense decision. As I stated, I am not an attorney, however before getting involved with one and spending countless time and money to get approvals and/or zoning changes/appeals, etc. I have had great success with numerous attractions, meeting with their local officials, doing conceptual drawings and parking layouts, etc. to help the officials better understand the "temporary/special" event that is looking for an approval. These situations sometimes require people experienced in this field who can better explain the venue to the appropriate official.

          Unfortunately, in the end it is really just a brutal game of politics...whoever plays it best generally wins! Hope this helps and good luck to all of you on your haunts!
          Jim Pashley
          The FEAR FACTORY
          www.thefearfactorynj.com
          855-NJ HAUNT
          sigpic
          "WE MANUFACTURE NIGHTMARES"

          Comment


          • #6
            Jim (Pickle),

            Thank you, very much, for your input.
            I can tell, based on my short experience with the zoning process and the people involved, that you know what you are talking about.
            Your post gives me some more insight into what I'm dealing with and how to attempt to deal with it.

            Dave
            Fright In Falcon Haunted Maze
            http://frightinfalcon.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Look into a temporary variance or special use permit.

              Zoning is generally used to protect public health, minimize nuisances to neighboring properties which leads to devaluation of properties, and ensure public utilities, services, etc... can satisfy expected demand generated from the property (with parking and traffic usually being the top concern). There are exceptions to this, such as protecting sensitive environmental areas and upholding special clauses on deeds requiring specific uses.

              Whoever helped you at the city doesn't really sound like they know their own zoning codes and land use and building ordinances very well. I would approach the city again and figure out how to get to the point you need to get to. Rezoning may not be the best option, it's often tedious and can take some time as discussed in above threads. Temporary variances or special permitting may be more suitable, you may not even need to deal with the zoning board.

              Zoning boards can be a pain, but you can always appeal the decision of the zoning board to the City Council. Council can reject the appeal, however, but that doesn't mean it's the end of the road.

              I would put together some information about the attraction, such as operating hours, estimated attendees per night, required parking spaces, a concept drawn out in scale as to how the land will be used, if the noise will influence neighboring properties, etc... Honestly the city should be more helpful in this regard.

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