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  • Scareactor compensation Dilema

    We have been open for two years, and I have been arguing with myself about the compensation for the actors. Pay cash or take care of them other ways. We are restricted by our zoning so we only get 14 days a year. (love the government) Currently the actors get a free T Shirt that is Actor exclusive, 6 combo passes ($150 value) We supply all the drinks they can drink and feed them every night, we supply all their cough drops, contact lenses, and all the sugar they can stand lol. We are open 4 hours a night. My dilemma is, about 2/3 of the crew refuse cash. They want to leave it as is, because they understand that if it goes to "PAY" its an official job and most of the other perks disappear. Currently the perks average around $300 in compensation per actor. My question is even if you pay them minimum wage (which is just under $8 an hour in Florida) you are looking at no more than $40 a night is that enough to get them to commit for 14 days a year. And even then the ones that are complaining about "No Pay" now would probably bitch that minimum wage aint enough........your thoughts? Even with the compensation offered currently there has been grumbling about it being for free. Being the one paying for said free stuff I know its not but I understand their point of view.
    Im torn, we have a family atmosphere now and Im worried that the "JOB" environment might hurt the overall show.
    Cause lets face it, paid employees are going to have a shorter leash than "Volunteers".
    Joe Phillips
    The Shallow Grave
    Winter Haven FL
    http://www.theshallowgrave.com/

  • #2
    Your staff are not volunteers, at least in the eyes of the tax man. Everything you are giving them is considered a wage, and they are supposed to be paying tax on the equivalent value. The tax man always wants his cut!

    But your "volunteers" really sound like employees to me, not only in compensation but in how they are treated. A big thing going around the last few years is independent contractor/volunteer or employee (there are lots of posts on this forum and others about this subject) so something to keep in mind so the Department of Labor does not come down on you.

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    • #3
      I know

      I know, I used the volunteers word for lack of a better term. In Florida since we are a seasonal event we do not even fall under the Federal Minimum Wage Act. We are exempt, so as long as there is compensation and they agree to it, it is legal. But even if they get paid the tax man doesn't get a cut because its under $600. It seems like with every fix it brings up another problem. So I wa looking for some input. I have no problems paying them cash, they do.....that's my dilemma.

      Originally posted by morte615 View Post
      Your staff are not volunteers, at least in the eyes of the tax man. Everything you are giving them is considered a wage, and they are supposed to be paying tax on the equivalent value. The tax man always wants his cut!

      But your "volunteers" really sound like employees to me, not only in compensation but in how they are treated. A big thing going around the last few years is independent contractor/volunteer or employee (there are lots of posts on this forum and others about this subject) so something to keep in mind so the Department of Labor does not come down on you.
      Joe Phillips
      The Shallow Grave
      Winter Haven FL
      http://www.theshallowgrave.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        If you have enough actors under your current volunteer status and as you stated some have even expressed that they do not want a "job" or cash...what's your problem? Keep it status quo.

        We run a volunteer staff. One year we were at a location that required the actors to be paid. I had more complaints that year about my actors from patrons, "what's with the actors this year, they're not as good?"

        Some haunts get good people paying. Some do not. IF you have perks in place and the staff like it, again no problem. Early on one haunted suggested I give a cooler perk for perfect attendance like a hoodie, with the haunt logos. He did and while it was an incentive he claimed that you really do not get a large percentage of perfect attendance. Everyone ends up with some issue to miss at least one night. Over 100 people on staff he said he never gives out more than 5 hoodies. We tried it...we give out 35+ hoodies!!! Good news I have a lot of actors every night, bad news I pay for a bunch of hoodies!!

        I had an older gentleman approached us the beginning of the season and told me flat out,"I'm getting a damn hoodie this year!!" And he did! Good thing is they all wear them and the t-shirts with pride, and it's free advertising!!! I have had people want to buy the shirts, woman wanted to buy the one off my back. Had to tell her sorry those are for Cast Members only, you have to earn them. She sent in an app to be an actor!!

        There has been a BIG debate over paid versus volunteer. Some locals out right banning volunteers. We always use the angle that we are basically a live theater presentation. Local community theaters have volunteers, some pay a stipend to cover gas. Independent contractors are discussed but are not applicable. You can not tell a contractor what days to work, what hours to work , or require a uniform (costume).

        So bottom line, if your system is working, work it. Create the family atmosphere. Give the perks. Make the perks worth something, certain days attendance for a t-shirt, perfect attendance, best actor award etc.
        We do trade outs with other local entertainment venues, indoor go-carts, zip lining, indoor trampoline park, movie theater... I give them tickets that they give to employees and customers (book a party room in Sept or Oct, get a pair of tickets to the haunt) and they give me tickets that I give to my volunteers. Then we get together as a group, go on an off night (so as not to impact the venue) it is a lot of fun and helps build that camaraderie to build for the next season. (We do the activities AFTER the haunt closes). We even have a big pool party schedules in a couple weeks to get the mood set for this year!!

        If you do have a problem with numbers until you build a good core group of actors, try getting local high school groups to volunteer. Say if the basketball team provides X number of actors for the weekend you donate a set amount of money or tickets back to the group.

        If you do not get enough quality people though volunteers, then you have no choice but to pay. Build a good core actor group and your problems are solved
        R&J Productions
        Las Vegas, NV
        www.LasVegasHaunts.com

        Comment


        • #5
          My advice is listen to your staff, without them you just have an empty building that patrons really don't have much interest in. They want scares and that's what is memorable. A happy staff equals hard work, good scares and a memorable experience for both patrons and staff.

          If the "perks" you are doing is keeping your honorary staff happy and returning then I say stick with it a few more seasons. If you are noticing you are losing staff for paid positions then consider being paid employment. We have some staff that have been with us for 10+ years that have no interest in the "job" aspect. They want the freedom to be able to take Halloween night off to take their children Trick Or Treating and such. That's just fine and dandy for us. There is always a place for them at our show.

          We have a few set standards in order to be a staffer meaning you have to abide by a set standard of rules and your basic requirements of an employee as well as audition for their positions. It is possible to have both paid and honorary staff, but at this point said "perks" is no different than it is for any other staffer. Essentially, they act because they love it and the scare is enough for them. An honorary staffer might work one night, another might work all of them. It's up to their schedule what nights they choose to attend.

          My opinion, the attitude of your staff is directly affected by the attitudes of your leadership. If your owners, management, actor trainers, build crew and veterans are positive, motivated, prepared and excited to work hard and perform at their best, then your staff will follow suit no matter if there's any "perks" offered at all. It has to remain fun no matter how big your shows get, how many patrons are attending or how long you've been open. Family will always stick by you better than a group of strangers waiting for a check.
          Daniel Burnett
          PR/Operator
          Reindeer Manor Halloween Park: Est. 1974
          13th Street Morgue/Dungeon Of Doom/Reindeer Manor


          sigpic

          reindeermanor.com
          whenhingescreak.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by morgueofdoom View Post

            my opinion, the attitude of your staff is directly affected by the attitudes of your leadership. If your owners, management, actor trainers, build crew and veterans are positive, motivated, prepared and excited to work hard and perform at their best, then your staff will follow suit no matter if there's any "perks" offered at all. It has to remain fun no matter how big your shows get, how many patrons are attending or how long you've been open. Family will always stick by you better than a group of strangers waiting for a check.


            ...exactly!

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            • #7
              RJ - the government doesn't see you as a theatrical performance, they see you as a haunted attraction. By federal law, the actors must be paid. By federal law, the ONLY time one may do work without payment is for public service, humanitarian efforts or religious ceremonies / purposes. It's quite clear - if someone is doing ANY type of work for a for profit business they MUST be paid. All it takes is one actor to get mad and google this and you'd go bankrupt and shut down before it even went to court - where you'd lose civilly and could be held criminally for tax evasion. Not a good thing

              http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp


              Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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              • #8
                That was good to list the link, but you'll be glad to know there was also a link to exemptions listed on the same page -- linked to http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/screen75.asp


                It listed a bunch of exemptions, including:

                Seasonal and recreational establishments: Employees employed by certain seasonal and recreational establishments are exempt from both the minimum wage and overtime pay provisions of the FLSA. You may also wish to review the applicable regulation.
                www.TerrorOfTallahassee.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've heard of so many different ways actors are paid to work in haunted houses it really never ceases to amaze me what goes on... if you are a legit business you pay EVERYONE on your staff no matter who they are from an actor to a ticket seller and everything between. There are those business who's agenda is raise money for charity that is a big section of our industry, seems they don't pay their actors, because they raise money for charity. Rocky Point didn't pay their actors rather made a donation to the boys and girls club... a deal I can promise you benefited the haunt more. Labor is one of our biggest costs and many haunts have figured out ways around paying via charity or whatever. Hey if its legit and legal and people are willing to donate their time then I see nothing wrong with it at all... I do believe and correct me if I'm wrong but House of Shock doesn't pay their actors either and hey they are a for profit business. I really don't know how they get away with it but they do...

                  There are haunts out there who've built up such the rep that people just want to be part of what is going on even working for nothing. I can't honestly say that I understand if that means you still need workers comp for these people, if this is even legal, or anything because I've never looked into. All I know is at least in my view if you are trying to make a profit for yourself you should compensate your staff. But again on the other hand there are just so many cases out there where the staff works for free...

                  Let me say this there are haunts out there that wouldn't survive if they didn't have free labor so you can say its a true labor of love for everyone. I don't know what is right or wrong but in this industry there are so many ways everyone is doing it so who knows. If I had staff willing to work for free would I pass it up?

                  Hmmm...

                  Like I said many haunts just wouldn't exist without people working for fun so I just don't know the answer to this question.

                  We pay our actors. I don't know what is legal or not simply because I haven't checked into it enough to know. You should do whatever works for you in your town, for your haunt for your staff. The old saying is if it isn't broke don't fix it.

                  Larry
                  Larry Kirchner
                  President
                  www.HalloweenProductions.com
                  www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                  www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                  www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Larry

                    Thanks for the insight Larry, I agree with you....that's why I'm torn. I want to pay but it becomes so muddy because some of the hardcore actors refuse the pay. They also understand that the haunt couldn't pay AND compensate them the way they currently are compensated. We are only open 14 days a year and on Thursday its on a few hours so at minimum wage you are looking at $24 @ minimum wage and since we only have 14 days NO ONE would get the $600 needed to withdraw taxes. But if you withhold taxes its about $6.80 an hour. Who is getting off their couch for $20 a night?
                    That's the dilemma, I could see it if we were open almost 30 days like some other attractions but because of zoning we are pinched at the moment and don't even fall under most federal labor guidelines.


                    Originally posted by drfrightner View Post
                    I've heard of so many different ways actors are paid to work in haunted houses it really never ceases to amaze me what goes on... if you are a legit business you pay EVERYONE on your staff no matter who they are from an actor to a ticket seller and everything between. There are those business who's agenda is raise money for charity that is a big section of our industry, seems they don't pay their actors, because they raise money for charity. Rocky Point didn't pay their actors rather made a donation to the boys and girls club... a deal I can promise you benefited the haunt more. Labor is one of our biggest costs and many haunts have figured out ways around paying via charity or whatever. Hey if its legit and legal and people are willing to donate their time then I see nothing wrong with it at all... I do believe and correct me if I'm wrong but House of Shock doesn't pay their actors either and hey they are a for profit business. I really don't know how they get away with it but they do...

                    There are haunts out there who've built up such the rep that people just want to be part of what is going on even working for nothing. I can't honestly say that I understand if that means you still need workers comp for these people, if this is even legal, or anything because I've never looked into. All I know is at least in my view if you are trying to make a profit for yourself you should compensate your staff. But again on the other hand there are just so many cases out there where the staff works for free...

                    Let me say this there are haunts out there that wouldn't survive if they didn't have free labor so you can say its a true labor of love for everyone. I don't know what is right or wrong but in this industry there are so many ways everyone is doing it so who knows. If I had staff willing to work for free would I pass it up?

                    Hmmm...

                    Like I said many haunts just wouldn't exist without people working for fun so I just don't know the answer to this question.

                    We pay our actors. I don't know what is legal or not simply because I haven't checked into it enough to know. You should do whatever works for you in your town, for your haunt for your staff. The old saying is if it isn't broke don't fix it.

                    Larry
                    Joe Phillips
                    The Shallow Grave
                    Winter Haven FL
                    http://www.theshallowgrave.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The fact is, if you're not in a major city with a good sized population, it can be very difficult to do the numbers required to pay a large staff for weeks of work at $8 or more an hour. The smaller towns and smaller haunts are usually only open a few weekends and (maybe) a few other nights. If you're a huge haunt, no problem, but the vast majority of haunts (based on surveys conducted here) do not have $100,000.00 budgets and beyond. They can't even afford those $30,000 animatronics that the big boys flaunt -- not that they don't want them, but because such high end products are really only feasible for haunts that are open all month and can eventually "pay for themselves" in saved labor costs.

                      The haunt business is like a pyramid, and the widest point is the base-- the home haunt. Then comes the smaller ticketed haunts (which can't afford to operate without volunteer help.) Then the mid sized ones, and the bigger city and super city mega haunts, which we all envy. But those larger markets have business models that won't work for everyone else in midsize cities and smaller towns. It's just a mathematical fact. I know haunts who's ENTIRE budgets are less than what the big city haunts spend on make-up and insurance. So it takes all kinds.

                      This I can say without reservation, and I bet it relates to a lot of other people on this forum: If I wasn't busy running our own haunt in October, I'd be out volunteering to help with someone else who was doing so. I'd enjoy the lack of responsibility not having to actually build or market or deal with the inspectors and all the other frustrations that make it "a job" of sorts (and I'd certainly enjoy not having to pay the bills), but one thing I would miss a lot is the fun of scaring the crap out of people. Sure, I'd like to get money for my effort (I'm certainly worth it)-- but if they're not making a lot of money off of it or have significant debts that need to be paid to keep the haunt alive and growing, I'm happy to contribute my time and talent to the cause. If a fossil like Jimmy Carter can waste time building free houses for the poor with no pay, and Hollywood celebrities can waste their time doing public service announcements and endorsing various charities -- not to mention all the students doing community service hours for really boring stuff-- then little ol' me can certainly waste some evenings in October scaring the pee out of someone else's patrons for free-- and loving it. Besides, it beats the hell out of waiting at home for kids to knock on my door so I can feed them candy to rot their teeth out of their heads.
                      www.TerrorOfTallahassee.com

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