Spookywoods New Photos!

[undertaker]

I can see both sides.

Sure i can see that you want to show your customers "Hey we put alot of effort into this and built it from scratch instead of going the easy route and just buying one and putting it together". I can see that and personally like that you did that.

Then on the other hand as a customer i want to suspend my belief. I want to get caught up in atmosphere and believe that this is a real castle.

Sure knowing that the facade isn't real probably won't ruin the experience, i mean with lighting, music, the chill in the air, you will still have that atmosphere and intimidation factor.

But i would've left the unpainted pics off and if anyone was really interested you could've told them .

At the end of the day, i don't think you'll lose alot of business because of it but it's just something i wouldn't expose unless questioned.

[damon carson]

Awesome work guys I love the gothic Chapel that is even more detailed than your castle facade. Also your swamp cabin looks pretty nice as well. I kind of see both points on showing your facade is made of foam. Maybe if you didnt show it on the same page? Maybe have it on a seperate page on construction or making of Spooky Woods. That way if someone is interested they can click on it. If not the illusion isnt spoiled. I love making things out of foam, latex, ect. I dont know how many times Ive had people help me move my props ect and they go to pick it whatever up. All stooping low and getting ready to grunt and then they just pick it up. And there like wow I though this thing would be heavy. It looks like stone! LOL! Its all part of the Illusion. I have some concrete statues ect but I stay away from them if I can buy resin ect and paint or whatever to make them look like the real mccoy. Great work guys!!!
Damon

[Spookyfinder]

I don't really know what to say... but...

Cookie,

There is a "behind the scenes" video of Haunted Mansion that IS played inside the park! It's from like the 70's where Walt was showing a young "Miss Disney" around the Imagineering Offices. I believe that video is still played today in the park, I know it was at least two years ago... our WHOLE family watched it!


I also think that if you've put ALOT of work into your haunt and it looks AMAZING... show it off! You could use it as a great marketing tool, invite the media out on a day where your painting or finishing up some walls! That is a tool to build word-of-mouth and anticipation at the same time!

Then invite the media out again before the haunt opens and show off the finished product, giving them the whole story, feel, theme, vide..... whatever. Put the media into a "real" castle and make there audience feel like it's a real castle when just a month before they seen it being painted!

It works both ways... but it someone really wants immersive theming, secrets, story.... they can go to Disney. Haunting is a business and a haunt owner needs to do what's best for the BUSINESS, not what's always best for the customer! This is a BIG saying in the amusement park business!

This years at Kings Island... you are no longer allowed to leave the park with a re-entry stamp after 6pm. This may be bad for the customers, not allowing them to re-enter... but it's good for the park; kind of "forcing" them to spend money in the park! It's just a "more caps per head" system.

I'm not saying that your wrong... just that you bring up a good point! I can totally see how both sides of this would work! I'm really liking this thread! -Tyler

[Lord Barnabus]

There are always two sides to every story.

On one hand, you may not want to show the photos.

On the other, you do want to show the photos.


I personally can't see the haunt getting ruined just because someone saw an unpainted photo of the facade. You and your crew spent hundreds of hours, and thousands upon thousands of dollars to get this haunt going. In the photos you are showing people the hard work that has been set forth for this great event that takes place. The customer gets to see how much work you put into just the facade. Imagine what goes through their minds when they wonder how the rest of the haunt is going to be. I know I can't imagine how great it will be. I don't believe that anyone is going to be disappointed from seeing the build photos. They are going to be amazed at how much talent a person has to build something with a wood frame, add foam over it, then carve something that looks like a real stone castle.

Off topic a bit- There is a company in my city that specializes in foam creations for corporate events, bridal shows, etc. They have been creating foam structures for the past couple years for the largest bridal show in town. A couple years ago they did a wedding chapel which was about 15-20 feet at its highest point. Everyone was amazed at the time and effort this one guy put into building this thing, making it look realistic, and portability (it is made to be transported and he rents it out).

Anyways, I just can't see it being a disappointment. If people are really that upset about seeing a build photo, then maybe they aren't interested in the haunt at all. It is just an excuse for them not to go and spend the $25 on the ticket. Or maybe they feel it is bad for the industry cause now their haunt does not compare to yours, and they feel that people who see yours are going to expect them to do the same thing. But that is the beautiful thing about our industry; Each haunt is totally different. We each strive to scare, or at least entertain our guests, but we are each different in our own unique ways. Some can get away with using plastic sheeting for walls, while others need panel walls. Some use high price animatronics, while others use stuff they created from someone elses garbage. Some use over 50 actors/workers, while others run on a mere 10 or less. Yet we all achieve the same greatness by delivering a quality product and service to the customers.

Now I'm not saying that anyone here is right or wrong. This is simply my own opinion. Nobody take offense, as it is just an opinion.

Maybe some think the pictures will ruin their experience. I just don't see that.

[the wolf man]

spookywoods

Tony, being a haunt seeker for many years (almost 20 to be exact) i enjoy the pics. What most people don't understand is time, effort, and cost that goes into making a haunted attraction work. It's nice to know that some of you are willing to show the public this. It' is not going to hurt your business' if anything it will help build it. The public can go anywhere on the web to find props to build a haunted house but the fact that you made them shows that you care about the scare.
And cookie, sorry i believe that haunting comes from the heart and that doesn't come from a store. And pictures show that Tony put his heart into it.
Keep Scaring and Screaming THE WOLF MAN

[twohlgemuth]

The customers have spoken

In case your intrested I have polled a good number of groups coming out of our haunted attractions this past weekend about the showing of the making of the sets on our website. The overall response has been they love to see it, and it does not take away the experience. They are more impressed that we created the sets ourselves.

I do see the Cookie's point of view, but I'm in this for 22 years now in a row and every year we push ourselves to top the last show. So, for me it is a race against ourselves. No bad will against my competition, but it's time to raise the bar. The customer wins, they get better shows or cheaper prices for the ones that can't keep it up. When prices shot up to $20.00 for general addmission I was the first to say it's to high, but everyone around us raised prices. So, now we will keep the prices at $20.00 and keep adding more and more amazing sets. Call it the Wall Mart business plan, keep giving them more for less. It's all about the passion to create unreal places to take your customer and blow them away every year.

I love to hear business people come to me and say they are opening a haunt in my area. If you got the time and the passion I welcome anyone to try. 5 out of 5 times they fail, you have to be nuts about our business to do it. The reason it works for Spookywoods is the team loves 100% what we do and I have another business that we live off of and the haunt profits go all back in to the haunt the next season to make it bigger and better every year.

[Cookie Crumbler]

Well, I was done posting on this, but I gotsta speak.

Nightgore,

Disney is experts at the behind the scenes "tease." I've seen "behind the scenes" haunted mansion footage too. I've even seen the one you're talking about. But when it comes to the haunted mansion they don't show anything of substance! Ever. They don't show shots of half built sets, or half built illusions, or lights on tours. They show you pure fluff, albeit fun and awesome fluff, in disguise as behind the scenes; enough to wet your appetite, but nothing at all to ruin the illusion.

I even have the awesome Haunted Mansion book from 03, and in it- not even one picture of a half-built set, or how an illusion is done, or anything even close to revealing (only a small, small airshot of the building exterior.) Every time, without fail, they stop short.

If Disney did actually start showing everything tomorrow, that in my opinion would be a stupid move, but that's a whole different discussion.

To everyone who posted, it's been a good read. However I do want to point out one of the major things I'm actually trying to say here.

I'm not saying the customers experience will be ruined by showing these pictures. I am saying that by showing these things you are setting a standard for yourslves and all of us. Once this standard has been set it becomes our jobs to raise the bar. Unfortunately, most of the people in this industry can't afford to do that, as normal working-class people.

To use Disney yet again, when they first showed "behind the scenes" footage so many years ago, when Walt and WED were planning Disneyland, he was showing off models, and Pirate costumes, and sketches. Now "behind the scenes" Disney is wrap-around Imax screen flight sims, 100 million dollar space-travel simulators, free-roaming animatronics, and million-dollar fireworks extravaganzas.

What I mean is that Disney can afford to show the public some of their tricks, because in 5 years the will have a whole new bag of tricks. They have budgets, engineers, and some of the best artists anywhere. We as haunters, though, must remain somewhat frugal while thinking big.

So in 5 years we will still be building things out of foam and wood. This means our tricks are valuable, because most of us will be relying on them for the rest of our careers. To give that away on our public haunt sites, like it's nothing, cheapens how hard what we do actually is. Yes that knowledge can be found easily, but it should be sought out, not handed out like coupons. People see the "secrets" right out in the open and many times discount or eventually stop caring about the work that goes along with it.

It also challenges us to raise the bar, but on haunters budgets there's only so far the bar can be raised. With longevity in mind, it becomes the haunters job to look toward the future, keep ourselves fresh, and keep ourselves in business. This includes thinking about how we are all going to keep customers returning 5, 10, 20 years from now.

To me thinking towards the future includes not totally cheapening certain trade "secrets" today. If you disagree I can respect that although I do believe I make some points here and I hope everyone at least gives this a thought.

Also, I believe it's not the consumers job to decide what's best for the future of the industry. So for what I'm saying, the customers exit opinion really isn't even a part of the discussion.

P.S. Wolf Man,
I build everything haunt-related myself too. I'm not sure how you got the idea I purchase everything. I'm also pretty sure I have as much heart, or more, as anyone around here, but thanks for making those assumptions.

[SamSoBuff1215]

Cookie --

I'm a new member on this forum, but I am not to Spookywoods or the world of haunted attractions for that matter. That having been said, I am not posting this because I am a HUGE fan of the attraction, but because as a (non-stupid) customer of Spookywoods, I feel like my opinion matters on this subject.

When Tony first posted the pictures of the building of the castle facade and of the gothic chamber, the only thing it did was pump me up more for the 2007 season. See, where you're wrong is the idea that this ruins the illusion...My question is "what illusion?" I do not go in to Spookywoods thinking that I am entering a new fantasy world, I go with the hope of being entertained by the best haunted attraction around. I know that you said that you were not calling the customers stupid, and trust me, I know you were not insulting me, but there really is no illusion to this business. Unless they are too young to think otherwise, I'm pretty sure no one walks in believing it's all real.
Second, you said that showing these pictures show us normal folk how "cheap" the set up really is and could give us an idea how to do it ourselves. I'm not really going to touch on the "cheap" comment because both you and I know that there is nothing cheap in this line of work. So, you really think that people could really create their own castle entrance by the various photos on Spookywood's site? This may be because I'm not an architech, but those pictures couldn't help be a sand castle, much less a blueprint for a two-story entrance way.

Please know that I am not trying to come off as being mean or anything, because I'm not angry at all. I think your opinions are valid and should be thought about. I do agree that no professional haunt should give away all it's secrets, but at the same time, it's nice to see that these people really do work their asses off all year to get the job done. Tony and his crew are one of the finest in the country, and I trust them every year to amaze me with their grandure sets and scenes. Knowing how they built them over the summer, does not make me lose the possible fear I will have when I enter these sets in two weeks. Now if they started showing me where all the actors are hiding, or when the pneumonic props will be trggered, then I would have a problem. But until that day comes, I believe the entire Spookywoods team is doing a damn good job at what they do for customers like me each Halloween.

[Cookie Crumbler]

Thanks for your respectful reply! That said,

There's no illusion left to this business only because most haunt owners and people selling us the concept of "haunted industry" have decided to make it that way.

Cookie Cutter, Cookie Cutter, says the Cookie Crumbler.

That needs to be changed. Now whether or not I'm right about that is apparently the issue.

So many fine examples! Take a look at the awesomeness of Turbidite manor for instance. He's selling illusion and that's whats so cool about it. Choose to suspend your disbelief just a bit and get a better show.

Warfield lives in a REAL haunted house, is that real or is it an illusion. Perhaps that question is a large part of what makes his attraction so special. Ya dig?

Everyone wants to be an insider these days and I fear they are missing out on a great, dying feeling because of it.

Myspace mytube youtube metube pootube. Show me how it's all done because we are all insiders. Pardon me if I disagree but show me something new and mysterious and I'll get a lot more excited than I'll get if you show me how hard you worked on your foam.

Who the hell cares how hard you worked anyway? We do here on these boards of course! But your customers shouldn't, your customers should care about the actual experience and the bang for the buck.

Or you're just selling them reality, and reality sucks.

I fear as cool as Tony and his team are they are unfortunately falling into the ego-stroke trap. Everyone wants their name in lights, look how hard we work! no one is content to hide behind the curtain and focus on the show at hand!

What kind of experience do you wanto provide? What does this industry sell? It's in our hands, not the customers.

[SamSoBuff1215]

But this is where you're wrong. I mean, I can't speak for other haunts, but Tony, I know for a fact, does not have an ego problem. I mean the only reason that Spookywoods has it's name in lights for several reasons (none ego-related).

1) They've been in business for 22 years. Humble starts as a small haunted house to a now 90,000 sq. ft. extravaganza.

2) They change constantly. No year has been the same. This is my 6th year going and I never see the same thing twice. They re-model and re-construct everything. They spend 11 months out of the year just PLANNING how they are going to make their customers happy. This is very innovative.

3) Tony remains very humble by the fact that Spookywoods is only part of what Tony does. He manages the Maize Adventure corn maize, the Fossil Dig, the Gem Dig, the Rock Shop, and the Pumpkin Patch...All of which are geared towards children, families, school and church groups. Being a successful owner of a haunted attraction is only that to him. He never once gives himself all the credit for any of his successful ventures. He constantly makes it known that without his team AND customers like us, Spookywoods would be nothing.

4) Tony and the Spookywoods gang has some of the best PR I've ever encountered. When I was just a "newbie" to Spookywoods and the haunt world, I remember I would email him asking the most mundane questions that I probably could've found on the website, and you know what? He took the time to answer my email and even thank me for it. To me, this is something that makes any attraction and WONDERFUL attraction. I always feels great once I'm at Spookywoods, but Tony makes his customers feel just as good during the rest of the year just by being friendly, responsive, and helpful.

5) When Spookywoods IS happening in October, Tony does not just sit in his house and roll in piles of money...He works his OWN haunt. He may not be a monster, or her may not be a ticket taker or a parking lot assistant, but he is there to make sure everything is running smoothly and that if anyone needs help, he is there to make sure they get it.


So there is a small list of how Spookywoods and it's owner are different from these other haunts you speak of. No, I am not a well travled haunted attraction guru, but I do know what good service is, and I know that Spookywoods has it.

[Cookie Crumbler]

Sam, let me tell you why I'm not wrong.

Unfortunately out of everything I wrote in my last post, you've focused on one little unimportant piece of what I've said. But sure, let's ride that tangent for a moment!

No way am I saying Tony or anyone has an ego problem. But I believe he's fallen into the trap, in just this one way. Sorry, but I firmly believe that. The good news is, that's how the world is these days and it says nothing bad about him.

I've fallen into similiar traps myself, it's hard to avoid them.

Look I'm sorry if it looks like I'm picking on just Tony, this is an industry-wide issue. Tons of people do it this way. Hell, in person I bet I'd get along great with most everyone here; But I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to defend my stance on the haunt business and where it's headed, because I feel someone has to.

To quote myself:
"Who cares how hard you worked?"
Your customers shouldn't focus on this.
Or you are selling them the wrong things.

Now I said earlier I can respect using your work ethic and originality to sell your haunt. But why the half-built pictures and list of names for every casual customer to see? Why not a simple note on the main page that says: "We here at ____ work hard all year to bring you custom built environments and effects you won't find anywhere else."

Because telling people how hard you worked with pictures, statistics, and credits is an ego stroke, and makes everyone feel good about themselves. The integrity of the project becomes comprimised, the work no longer speaks for itself, because people need to see their names in lights.

And when you do that you're no longer selling your haunt, you're selling yourself and your crew, showing how cool and hard-working you are. And unless you're giving the tours yourself, you shouldn't need to sell yourself.

How does my line above not work? Just tell everyone your crew works hard all year and you make everything yourself. Why doesn't that work?

Because it doesn't stroke the ego. It's not as glamorous.

So I ask again, what are we selling as an industry?

My popularity stock is falling... falling... FALLING! Bwar-har-har! Sell! Selll!!!!!!!!

[Cookie Crumbler]

Can you believe the nerve of that guy? Cookie Crumbler is nuts if you ask me!

[SamSoBuff1215]

Trust me, Cookie, I see your point. I can see where you would think it is adding gas to the fire by posting pics of you working hard and an already successful haunt. Surface level: it may seem rhetorical to do so, but lets look at it from the view point of the average joe customer and fan like me. As I said in my first post, seeing those pictures of the building stage just pumped me up more the haunt. I mean, call me crazy for valuing work ethic, but I like to see what popular haunts do to prepare for the next season. I like to see that they are designing and building original sets, props, etc. and not just buying them from the Fright Catalog or something. It is nice to see the norm that most haunt site succumb to by stating "We here at ______ work hard every year to bring you the most original haunt there is." But to back it up with pictures gives the whole haunting industry a real feel to it. A human feel. Just like watching the construction men (and women) working on the newest sky scraper, it's good to see that a real job is being done. That the success of this haunt is actually done by hard work. We don't complain to those construction people for working out in the middle of the public to build a possible visually pleasing and astounding thing, so neither shall we when haunts, like Spookywoods, post pics of them basically doing the same thing (just on a smaller scale).

I will agree with you that this industry is sinking into an inescapable hole that it created with over done scenes and the out played gimmicks, but this is where Spookywoods truly IS different. The constant change of the show every year, along with the innovative and "low gore" scares makes it's one in a million and seeing a little behind-the-scenes work on something that unique doesn't bother me at all.

[Cookie Crumbler]

Sam,

You seem like a terribly good guy, and although my tone might not seem to show it I've enjoyed this discussion tremendously.

I know what you mean, hard work is the most important thing out there in my opinion, I myself live by that law, and to be honest I take exception to people who don't work hard. I only surround myself with hard workers, and I really couldn't agree more.

The difference here comes down to one line in your post. You want the human feel. I can understand that.

But this is it, the line where we differ. I personally believe the human feel is not good for this business in the long run. I believe to take the all of the mystery out of it, and make it human, will hurt interest in the business, make it less compelling, and bury us in a hole down the line.

I feel reality TV has largley killed what was left of music for instance, by turning everything into a "human" ratings contest, and is therefore slowly killing actual human achievement. But some people love reality tv. Good, kind, intelligent people love it.

Only time will tell if I am right or wrong. And I'm talking several years, likely not next haunting season.

But if hard work is what you value, I certainly don't want to argue with you! If you are on this board, it also means we're on the same team. I think most of the disagreements around here do arise out of passion for doing what we love and the tremendous sense of pride we feel in all sorts different ways. That's actually a pretty cool thing in a weird sort of way.

I must be going, I've spent far too much time on this board today.

Have a fun day everyone, and a great season. I'm out of here, leaving you all with no signs of disrespect intended, only well wishes and congrats on all of your various acccomplishments.

[SamSoBuff1215]

Cookie,

I am very glad to see that you, and pretty much ever other member on this forum is actually a nice person. I know that some people, when disagreed with, would just fly off the handle and start flaming. For this, I want to thank you.

Also, thank you for being passionate about the industry. Although the main point of this discussion has just been a difference in how we like to view the ever-growing haunted attraction industry, you're right; we are on the same team, and I really hope nothing I've said has offended you or anyone else on here.

I mainly joined this forum for 3 reasons:

I absolutely adore the haunt industry and season

I love forum communities with some maturity

I wanted to support, stick up for, and get behind my favorite haunt out there, Spookywoods.

No matter, though. We can all be happy that there is still such a thing as a haunt industry, and that whether it is a small home haunt (like mine) or a massive Scream Park (like Spookywoods), we all just love scaring and entertaining people!