Questionable Scene

[Ghost River Duck]

That said, fans of the genre (and in turn, haunted attractions) find joy in things that would normally be considered completely horrific. There is absolutely nothing "fun" about most of the material included in most haunted houses. Murder, ravenous monsters, possession, etc. would not be considered fun if they were real - even by the most hardened horror buff - but in the context of a maze or movie, these unsettling things become fun due to the controlled nature of the venue.

The suicide scene in question could certainly be considered fun in an "oh my god! did you just see that!?" sort of way. I mentioned Troma films in an earlier post on this thread, and if you have never seen one, they are chock full of extreme gore, rapes, drug use, abortions, brutal murder of babies and the elderly, copious nudity and sex, giant ravenous penis monsters and other morally questionable material and yet these films are totally fun and totally hilarious! It's the same principal applied to slasher films and the like - audiences actually cheer when the "heroes" are slaughtered, waiting for each murder to be wilder and more over-the-top than the last! The same thing clearly applies to haunts.

As I said, taken out of context, the shotgun suicide may just seem like a cheap shock tactic and in bad taste, just as the idea of a naked woman masturbating in a steam room to a photo of a child's crushed head may seem totally disturbing if you've never seen The Toxic Avenger. But put both those scenes in context and they fit perfectly into their respective shows.

Basically I just think it's a shame that haunters tend to play it safe. Horror is about taking risks and pushing limits in one way or another. I think I'll boil this down to a Tobe Hooper metaphore. Poltergeist is a pretty good movie, but Texas Chainsaw Massacre is 100% more effective. Plain and simple.

The last paragraph makes a great point. It's just all in the show your trying to give the audience. But as for the rest of what you listed under trauma films, see none of that appeals to me. It just sounds like trash.

And gimmicky might not be the right word. It sort of implies "200lb man eating chicken" and that doesn't exactly fit either. But sure, we've done variations on the dot room but it's not new anymore. And we've got some air blasts that will peel wallpaper but those aren't exactly earth shattering either. They are reliable though. But I cut my teeth with my dear friend Thurston Hamerick who is a career entertainer. He taught me how to put on the show. HE was one of the best rodeo clowns going down the road for many years and now puts on rodeos and a big haunted Hayride at his arena each year. And now I work with Ray Bivins http://us.vdc.imdb.com/name/nm0084633/filmoyear and Tony Cook on Tony's Haunted Pyramids. We're out in the middle of nowhere but still pull the crowds. And frankly we're using the movie special effects in the place. We make beds jump up and down, we fly actors around in the air, and the pyrotechnics are just bad ass. You combine that with good acting and you've got a show that I'll put against any body's. WE hosted Kersey Valley Spooky Woods a few years aga and I seem to remember them being quite impressed.

Probably my favorite scene this year is the character of Pinhead from Hellraiser, which Ray did the effects for. When the group turns the corner there he is floating above an in front of them. He waves them in holding the puzzle box and speaks to them (we've got a headset mic on him in the mask and run it through the amps and out the sub so it shakes the floor). He floats down to them and about a 12 foot fireball burst up beside them. It's really quite safe but the feeling is that the door of hell just opened. It's THAT bright and hot on you. Then he floats back up and they pass underneath. I'll be working tomorrow night. If I can get the digital camera to work right I'll try to get you a pic or two. It's cool as hell though.

[horrorfiend99]

Sounds very cool. I am a huge Hellraiser fan and along with the Pinhead bit, a lot of the effects you mentioned do sound quite impressive and original. It may be worth mentioning, though, that Hellraiser (the film) is chock full of graphic gore and very disturbing images and themes including rape, infidelity, sadomasochism and brutal torture. =)

Clive Barker's genius aside, I definitely don't need my horror brimming with blood and guts - if you can pull off a solid haunt with cutting edge effects and original scares, kudos to you! And I can see how you may view using splatter and shock as the "easy way out", but please understand that the blood-soaked, un-PC brand of horror is a very popular and time-tested facet of the genre, and what may seem like trash or cheap thrills to you, if done right, could easily be viewed as high art by the correct audience.

Personally I find it infinitely more impressive when someone makes wildly offensive material palatable than when someone plays it safe and chooses not to offend anyone at all.

Also, I'm not saying don't include dot rooms or air cannons in your haunt, you can't completely abandon the classics! I just commend the folks who try to take it to the next level.

[Ghost River Duck]

I forgot to mention that the chains come flying up out of the floor around the patrons, jsut like the movie.

After re-reading my own post, I might ought to back up just one bit. I did not mean to make it sound as though I was taking credit for the special effects and I think did. These haunts are there work. I jsut help them out. I used to work with those guys a lot, designing and acting along with managing the help. Now I just help out when I can. I've a 1 year old and a 2 year old and my wife has a business that forces her to work a pile of 2nd shift hours. There for most nights I'ma stay-at-home dad when I get off of my day job. But early spring, if I can get it all worked out, my partners and I will be starting on a brand new haunt location for the 2008 season. I can't wait. I've got a notebook full of sketches and ideas. We'll definetly be throwing the special effects at them.

[Infoamtek]

I thought of an alternate scenario using the same effect. Guy with a shotgun is giving the opening speil when a rotting zombie lurchres on the scene. Guy puts the shotgun to Zombie's forehead. BOOM! Gore all over. Zombie falls back and disappears off stage. Guy says, "And only a shot to the head will take care of them. Oh, I'm the only one with the shotgun. Well, good luck." And he walks off.

[dr0zombie]

I thought of an alternate scenario using the same effect. Guy with a shotgun is giving the opening speil when a rotting zombie lurchres on the scene. Guy puts the shotgun to Zombie's forehead. BOOM! Gore all over. Zombie falls back and disappears off stage. Guy says, "And only a shot to the head will take care of them. Oh, I'm the only one with the shotgun. Well, good luck." And he walks off.

Actually that is almost my dream haunt scene.... I'd love to have a few zombies slaughtered right in the middle of the guests coating them in something its WAY to poorly lit to identify. How great would that be!!! I'd love it as a guest and love to put it in a show.....

I think I have said... its not the gore here... I just didn't dig the acting or the shot. We all should have gone... DAMN THATS NASTY...... not, what are the ethics of this scene......LOL......

[TheNightMare]

I thought of an alternate scenario using the same effect. Guy with a shotgun is giving the opening speil when a rotting zombie lurchres on the scene. Guy puts the shotgun to Zombie's forehead. BOOM! Gore all over. Zombie falls back and disappears off stage. Guy says, "And only a shot to the head will take care of them. Oh, I'm the only one with the shotgun. Well, good luck." And he walks off.

Now this senario sounds better than the video I watched. To me the suicide thing is NOT scary. Unentertaing unless he was dressed as Kurt Cobain and even that wouldn't make it enjoyable.

[Greg Chrise]

Movies.

I can't remember which horror movie I went to see, so many are the same but, this one was intended to be horrific I guess. So it goes on like a dance you have learned like being able to resight what it on a Big Mac. They do this kick that, run, scream hide, get surprised and after 15 immersive steps something was thrown in there completely different and sick. It was bad azz action.

So my reaction was to laugh out loud at how cool this was. Meanwhile, apparently the rest of the audience had just been terrified, was completely silent and me being the guy laughing at this must be the serial killer the papers had alleged might be in this town.

In every audience there are those that just began and are on the Space Aliens from Planet 9 level to those that can look at the most recent Texas Chainsaw gore as an art form. This range of experience I would imagine also has a place. A rural setting has different tastes than the city folk would consider, the urban areas a completely different vibe of what sets them off toward either humor or terror.

Up north a second rate theater that otherwise doesn't get much business is all horror and godzilla movies. On the South, everything is direct to DVD as it is not a selected theater.

In live theater, you have the ability to do it 400 different ways a night and 15 different days with every performance tailored to the possible sensibilities of the audience. Then this audience also matures with the production over the years and that dance in one location might have 15 steps and in another they will jump at one step. Yet because it is a dance of sorts with so many of the same expected steps, I can't remember what movie made me the only one that burst out laughing.

I also tend to not go see what the big crowd says is great or wild and I must see it. It might have been 3 years after silence of the lambs came out before I saw Hannible Lector escape that had people so wormed out. I know I laughed at that. A combination of fast paced where is he now action with the guards butchered up and one displayed like a butterfly.

The customers are equally looking at haunts as a gage for what intimidates people, looks stupid or gets a reaction to what degree. They pay to enter and be informed by this as much as does this place make any money? Do the actors make any money? Whay do they do this? Could I see myself doing this? Where am I in the building? Or am I starting to get pissed off that this stupid dolts thing running the customers into no less than 5 dead ends behind sheets and 3 wrong was doors is scare as opposed to totally annoying.

What if all of a sudden the customers are more capable of going Vampire than the actors ever thought possible in the middle of a sucky show? Oh, I'm sure they would call security and then the police but, this is why lame shows have so many problems with customers. I thought about this after my last weekend tour of another haunt. I'm a nice guy, I only thought of it. Why because they did not engage me enough to entertain me what so ever so i entertained myself.

The haunt I toured after not being able to visit other haunts at all for a few years made me appreciate things in our own that I did not appreciate why it is so effective. We had an advantage of three completely seperate acting styles and environment settings all coming to gether in one place. Each doing what they knew to be best with very little gore at all.

With tremendous effort by many a 2,000 SF haunt can be 4 times better and more effective than an 8,000 SF haunt. It can take exactly the same amount of time getting through with out stopping people for a 5 minute show 17 times.

Once you've seen one bloody bathroom scene you have seen them all. Once you have seem one limbless torso with the spine hanging out the bottom you have seen them all. If it is a customers second haunt to any haunt and these components are in there, they have seen it before. If you have seen it in a movie how is it so much better with a 5 foot tall girl doing it in real life?

Everyone needs to do things origional or set to the type of customers thay have cultivated. The only reason anyone gives movies that do the same dance over and over a chance is looking for that little extra twist of greatness. Everything in daily life is pretty much the same thing with all the same possible obstacles and inconveniences every day and every day. A haunted attraction shouldn't just immitate movie crap and expect to be anything but stupid.

Apparently some of the haunt planners think no one else has seen a movie or even if they haven't seen the movie have seen enough previews to know what they are TRYING to do? Is it a haunted house or is it a game of Jepardy? What scene is this from Alex?

Yet, even a half hearted attempt will remain popular because it is some kind of community tradition. There isn't anything better to do beside wander through walmart again. The kids haven't seen this yet?

Something completely disorienting of environment and content might only see a fifth of the old family tradition. Maybe these days the customers have been transformed into zomies who just watch things happen, thanks to decades of sitting in front of the tube? If they are some how engaged at all it is a negative reaction. Of course they will all say it is the best ever and great because telling you otherwise would require some kind of thought and interaction.

[horrorfiend99]

You bring up a good point that rings true in all of the entertainment industry. Namely that audiences have become creatures of habit or, as you said, "zombies".

Most film studios, record labels, theme parks and even haunts fall victim to the trap of spoon-feeding the public imitation after imitation of whatever it is that sells at the moment, leading to boring, formulaic pieces of art and an audience that grows complacent because they are never really challenged. Even the art that is perceived as "indie" or "underground" that reaches mass audiences is usually watered down to a degree for easier mass consumption. This creates a vicious circle where all anyone is really worried about is the bottom line.

This is why those who do something different, radical or edgy, at the risk of losing some customers, should be commended and looked to as an example. Dead Acres (and haunts like it) may scare off a portion of their potential audience with what some would consider morally questionable content, but their attempts to do things that other haunts see as "unsafe" has obviously garnered a lot of attention and praise from those who can see the value in it (and there are obviously many).

At the end of the day, getting back to what this post is really about - for the most part, we are not in the business of what most would consider family entertainment (with the exception of perhaps the Adams or Manson families... hehe). Some haunts fill that niche and that's great - but most haunts feature adult themes, and therefore - should this whole thing be such a big deal?

[actiondeath]

Man oh man...

Hahahahahaha!!! Give me till the beginning of next week. Boy, will I have some footage for you all.

Bottom line... The Hoochie IS scary. It always has been, it always will be. It contains all of the necessary ingredients of true FEAR. FEAR is what the customers, new and repeat, pay for. It's why they all stand in line for FOR HOURS UPON HOURS, sometimes 2 and 3 times per season (I've been through several times this year).

Entertainment is nice. When I want to be entertained, I go see a movie or watch a band play. I sit in a theatre for a couple of hours and think to myself about how entertained I am. I have time to think. It's pleasant and nice. In a walkthrough haunted attraction, I don't want to have time to think. I want my eyes to be wide open and my next breath to be deep down in my lungs BEGGING to get out. I want to smell, see, hear, and feel horror (tasting, not so much). The Hooch' provides this for me.

Yeah, it's not about what I want, but I will venture to say that ALL of us haunters were once patrons. C'mon 5,000+ per night?!! You can't tell me that there isn't at least a notable percentage of repeats. It's a friggin rollercoaster! People don't make it out the door without mentioning "so and so NEEDS to see this" or "I want to go through again". For a multitude of reasons, it kills... Every time.

Why would anyone condemn any scene as it is portrayed on tape on a night the show is closed. It's a well known fact that actors only really come to life when there are people to scare. The filming you all are watching is nothing like what you would see inside the show. You all should know this.

I sense the end of an era. Like the end of any pop-culture era (or cult era for that matter), the majority will be reluctant, or will downright REFUSE the change. It's like hair bands meet grunge (nice Cobain comment by the way... He was a genius and you know it). Or even Roth fans meet Hagar fans. If history and trend are a factor here, you will have your precious crank ghosts and flicker bulbs back someday. What about dark rides??? I'm dying to see them around again in abundance! The Hoochie is now. Let them have their fun.

[Jast223]

No hold on I never questioned the haunt nor was I Bashing the haunt. All I was asking was was the material questionable. Sure most of us have seen the hanging corpse in the haunted mansion at Disney Land but what I was asking was seeing it being done in front of you, Is that questionable. I got my answer its a confirmed maybe.

[GhoulKraft]

The "hootchie" does NOT & CANNOT do 5-6 thousand a night. Plain math will tell you that plus, they have a theatrical show which does not allow you to milk the line like they do. Pushing the envelope and shocking people does not pay the bills. The "industry" needs to expand to cater to an ever widening demographic. It cannot specialize in one theme with gore and violence. This alienates too many other potential patrons.
A truely entertaining and cutting edge haunt like Terror Town in Toledo understands this process and builds their attraction to suit ALL customers. Halloween is scary yes, but it is also thrilling and funny. It can be bloody and shocking and gross. But the one thing that always applies is that it is FUN. Suicide is not fun. suicide doesn't sell 5-6 thousand tickets a night. (nothing does, btw)
Fun sells tickets. period.
The hootchie is a great haunt, I have been there, I had a good time. But lets keep it real and not slobber and stutter over ourselves when someone dares to speak ill of it and question the appropriatness of a scene.
Thanks

[screamshow]

Slobber and Stutter ?? LMFAO..... I dont think anyone was slobbering and stuttering..... there were a couple of us who were trying to support a good quality haunted house. "BUT THEN AGAIN YOU MIGHT GET CONFUSED, HOOKED ON PHONICS HASNT BEEN DELIVERED TO YOUR HOUSE YET"
( OH YES THERE WILL BLOOD ) - Inside Joke - "I dont react well to insults sorry"

Yet one more comment by a someone who has no idea what the hell he is talking about. I HAVE BEEN TO THE FRICKIN HAUNT ( MYSELF ) so have MANY MANY others.... I have seen the numbers on paper ( not by word of mouth ) I have grown up with the HOOCHIE ( you John - are but a visitor once ) one time - over a year ago, which is IMPOSSIBLE to compare with the show this year.... instead of ( insulting a Haunt or Haunt Owner ) WHICH IS WRONG IN EVERY SENSE by what you say - you might want to inform yourself first. Have you visited the haunt on any other night other than for a frickin convention ? Do the math ?? what is the formula ?? It IS VERY POSSIBLE they have had to stay open untill almost light of day to get them through but it has been done..... and yes " Pushing the envelope and shocking people does not pay the bills " just look at the line..... noone wants to see whats inside..... noone comes for the concerts, the freakshow / susspension acts..... and yes every patron speaks ill and will never come back....


( nice dream )

* S N A P *

Welcome back to reality ( how was yer trip ? )

I REFUSE TO TALK SMACK ABOUT OTHER HAUNTS OR HAUNT OWNERS - I DONT THINK ITS RIGHT ( I HAVE ALLOT OF RESPECT FOR ALL OF THEM ) I THINK ITS PRETTY SMALL MINDED.... AND ONLY SHOWS INGNORANCE .... SO CONGRATS

people, it is going to take more than what has been done by all the brilliant people in the past... fads die off and customers hunger for more. More effects,
it is going to take more than what has been done in the past if you want to survive in the future.... noone wants to see the same thing any longer.... its going to take more than a 4x8 sheet of wood with OH YES IT WILL BLOOD on it to make them happy.
( inside joke )

actiondeath made a very good point I will quote

"I sense the end of an era. Like the end of any pop-culture era (or cult era for that matter), the majority will be reluctant, or will downright REFUSE the change. It's like hair bands meet grunge Or even Roth fans meet Hagar fans. If history and trend are a factor here, The Hoochie is now. Let them have their fun."

Relax man.

[bhays]

Myself and my asst director are driving 3.5 hours tomorrow night to check out the Hoochie...I am very curious. I just hope they have enough actors and haven't started tearing down on the Tuesday before Halloween :<

[bhays]

Well, we've been open almost every other night they were, so this is the only shot. Ought to still be able to get a feel for their show.

[actiondeath]

The "hootchie" does NOT & CANNOT do 5-6 thousand a night. Plain math will tell you that plus, they have a theatrical show which does not allow you to milk the line like they do.

The above comment makes absolutely no sense. Math tells you nothing about how many customers are going to show up on any given night. They have a theatrical show? Which doesn't allow them to milk the line? LIKE THEY DO? That must be 'industry' speak. You lost me.

I was there the night they did 5,000+. I waited in line for well over 4 hours. You callin' me a liar??

Pushing the envelope and shocking people does not pay the bills.

HAhahahaAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, tell that to Alice Cooper. He's in the poorhouse along with Ozzy and Marilyn Manson. Everyone told them what the people wanted and didn't want. People told them how many ticket sales they were missing out on because of their gore and their violence. Man, they should've listened.

Look, I'm not saying it's the only way, I'm not even saying that it's the best way, but it works and I personally love it. It is simply THE MOST intense show I've ever seen. You don't have to make yourself sound ridiculous to prove anything to me.

That's awesome yer comin' out, BHays. You won't be disappointed. Maybe I'll throw on some gear and throw down with Malicious, Hoochie style. ('Hell Yeah' Haha, I know who you are now. I must've heard that about 60 times last Thursday and Friday!)