HHA vs IAHA

[Mr Nightmarez]

Sorry if this has been covered. I have been out of pocket for the past several months and just now caught up and jumped on the forums to see that there is now a new Association?

I have never been a fan of IAHA - but I know they were making strides and leaps to make things better... I almost joined back into IAHA in 2007, but never heard the right answers.

Now I see that HHA is up and running? What is the difference, any opinions or reasons for all of this and reasons to join either or BOTH at this point?

Thanks for the input and my lack of keeping up w/ these things!

[Jim Warfield]

Well they both seem to be "Happy" doing that "HA" thing....?

[Nightmaretony]

When in doubt, simply check out:

http://charactercounts.org/

Tis still good to ask and learn and join what is most compatible with your ethics and interests. A word of advice, get the FULL story instead of distorted bits and pieces before making decisions and judgement. Good luck!

[Mr Nightmarez]

Thanks...

I step away for a few months and get so far behind...

Researching!

And any more comments and links are very much appreciated!

[drfrightner]

HHA is dedicated to promoting your business, helping you get over the hump, helping you succeed, getting you things you couldn't get yourself, doing things no one person can do by themselves, this is a group for professional people who want to expand, promote and protect our industry.

There will be a vendor discount program on a level you've never seen, PR that will keep flooding in, and benefits that no unprofessional organization can offer. Its time to work together not against each other, for your own personal gain, or your own popularity.

The time is now...

If you join you'll get an additional 5% of anything you buy from Scarefactory at the show. You will get the industries only professional haunted house magazine, you'll get your haunt listed on the site, you'll be exposed to tons of national media and more.

We're NOT playing around! I'm done with playing around!

Lets get it done!

Larry

[drfrightner]

Another vendor on board...

POISON HALLOWEEN PROPS will offer a 5% discount year round for members of www.hauntedhouseassociation.org.

www.poisonprops.com

[drfrightner]

Another vendor has signed on... Scareparts will offer all HHA members 5% discount year around no strings attached.

Now get ready to hear about a Ghost Ride Discount and Unit 70. I'm going to get most vendors on board because I have a plan to make this work for all involved.

When its all said HHA members will have the best discounts, best chance to reach major national media and much more.

Larry

[drfrightner]

It was just brought to my attention that this statement was made by Leonard Pickel on this website...

The HHA is the brainchild of Larry Kirchner. After being the President of the IAHA, and not being able to get his way as a board member, he resigned abruptly and after taking the IAHA's website URL with him, formed his own "association."

Leonard

ANYWAY... Let me clear things up for you...

When I first became the President of IAHA, Leonard was the VP, and he was the one who QUIT because he couldn't get his way. He quit just before TW . While a board member he had also put the board on notice that IAHA would no longer enjoy free booths, or support from his magazine and tradeshow. He said those things because of what he stated was the former board trying to hurt his business by positioning IAHA to compete with him. That is the thing about IAHA no one really seems to be happy, and it always seems swirled in drama... Anyway

Let me CLEAR UP THE FACTS...

What did Larry Kirchner do while President of IAHA???

1) Raised MORE money for IAHA than they had ever raised in their history!

2) Lauched the industries first ever NATIONAL PR EFFORT, and raised over $16,000 in PRIVATE money to pull it off. The effort gained our industry spots on Good Mourning America, Today SHow, and USA Today.

3) I personally re-created their website with the help of Rogues Hollow.

4) I hosted their website for free.

5) I basically recreated their phone book, got new artwork for it, made it more usefull, blah, blah.

6) Got them free booths two years straight and meeting rooms from TW, something in the past they had paid for.

7) I got them free booths at IAAPA upon their request. Remember IAHA burned that bridge down to the ground after they had tried to get all vendors to move to IAAPA from TW and failed to deliver. They burned a bridge with TW as well as IAAPA... and I helped salvage those relationships.

8) I headed up a total redesign on their logo, made banners for them for tradeshows, etc.

9) I sold ads for their directory, and sponsorships for IAHA to raise money.

10) Hauntworld gave them free space for editorial, and free ads in our magazine as well as links on our websites, and banners. ALL FREE!

11) Gave them professional leadership, which was seriously lacking.

12) Changed EVERYTHING from who headed up their TAP magazine program (Brett) so it would be more professional to what the direction was to be, which was work for a professional industry.

13) Donating stuff for fund raising, and bought ads in from them all to help IAHA.

14) I was a spokeman and tried to get others to join.

After my second term as President I was asked by Dan Faupel to run again as President, but I was worn out... working with some of the people who didn't care about the industry like I did,. I stayed on as a board member, only to see Tim Givinski become President, who from minute one tried everything he could to get rid of me, work against me, and try to hurt my business.

Tim Givinski STOLE my artwork, my haunted house name and posed as The Darkness nationally for two years... after he told me he was sorry, would take everything down, and he told this to both myself and Brainstorm Studios on a three way call. Welll he didn't want to pay Brainstorms fee for new artwork, so I guess he decided he would put my name and my artwork back up on his site even after he had told me and BS that he would remove it and was sorry.

I thought he did what he said he would do and remove my name and artwork from his site... he did then put it all back up and even tried to use it again the following year.

So the following year he's listed as the THIRD BEST HAUNT IN THE NATION according to AOL.com on Ticketweb. There is this ranking and in the third slot it says... The Darkness, Wisconsin. The link goes straight to Tims site... I was like I dont' believe it. As you know AOL listed Darkness, St. Louis not some fraud in Wisconsin.

I called Tim, and he said 'oh there must be a mistunderstanding, I thought you said I could keep using it'. Then after he knows I'm not going for that lie, he says to me that Leonard Pickel told him he could use it, then he changed his story to 'we don't think you own the name The Darkness'. Then his wife jumps on the phone and says if you can prove you own we'll remove it... she tells me to fax over proof but refused to give me their fax number.

I then had no choice but to contact my lawfirm... once my lawfirm got a hold of Tim he relented and admitted that he didn't have the rights to MY ARTWORK and MY HAUNT NAME, and kept trying over and over again to dodge removing it until he could get through the rest of that season. When my lawfirm said last chance otherwise there is no turning back from a full blown suit, he pulled everything off the site.

He cost me thousands of dollars. So he's got this grudge against me...

He goes on this Bloody Mary boat cruise and tells everyone who would listen that I'm trying to DESTROY IAHA from the inside and tries to recruit people to run for the board...if they got enough people to who were on the same team they could get rid of me...which is exactly what he did.

He recruited friends of Tim to run for the board, and instantly started doing things to work against my business... for example one of the first things he does as President is to get IAHA to PAY Rotting Flesh Radio a sponsorship fee to interview board members on his show, and place a banner on his site, and then encourages people to go to RFR to chat with other industry leaders.

Here I am giving all this stuff away free, and I'm a board member, and a member and I'm like huh... I thought people supported IAHA because they believe in the mission not for money. So my first response was okay... pay me then if you don't want my free ads, free banners, and free support. They told me I should keep doing without being paid like RFR. I was like forget that.

In fact... Leonard was the FIRST ONE to tell IAHA he would no longer run ads for them. Leonard told the whole board no more free ads, no free booths at Hauntcon because he felt IAHA worked against its own members, more so meaning himself. I actually agree with Leonard believe it or not.

Once Tim and his friends took over this board, they did everything to work against me from not including Hauntworld as a sponsor of the Frozen Tundra Tour to even trying to make an allience with HauntedHouse.com, all while I was a board member and a suporter.

Then Tim goes and tried to start a sponsorship program, which I explained you can't do that, because you would be competing with your own members for sponsors, but he wanted to partner IAHA with my compeition. I'm like that isn't what an association should do work against members, it should work with all members.

After all people like Ben left the board and Rich and the other Rich they just did whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted however they wanted...


Then they did this census, which they paid fellow board member Randy Young $2,500.00 to create... I was like HUH???? I thought this board was all volunteer, but they still paid him. I did not agree with things like this.


I got TIRED OF THIS and YES quit! Certain people wanted to get rid of me 'Friends of Tim', and this all was inspired by myself going after him because he stole my artwork and haunt name. I tried to GIVE EVERYTHING only to have this guy try and do everything he can to combine IAHA with people he would percieve as my competition.

For the record I feel like an association should NEVER work against its own membership EVER. Associations have functions, and creating ticketing programs which they wanted to create would pit them against their own supporters and members, or a sponsorship program puts them in compeition against their own members for sponsors or helps out your compeition and that is not what an asscciation does in my opinion.

An association should find ways to HELP ALL without putting one haunt no matter how big or small ahead of another. This is NOT how IAHA functions.

So after YEARS of devoting my LIFE to helping these people, I will not ever join that drama again. I stopped and thought about... there is over 2100 members to our haunt directory and IAHA has maybe 60 unique haunt owners. Its not working so just forget it and move on... As it stands let them do their thing, good luck to them, and everyone else or anyone else can do their thing. It doesn't have to be a this vs that...

As I see it its NOT a competition! We're just trying to help EVERYONE!

Here is the bottom line...

I tried to do EVERYTHING I COULD FOR IAHA!!!

I had my own partner telling me I was doing more for IAHA than my own business. And for this we get the same old same old ... which is IAHA is a popularity contest. They're not ready to be for the industry, to be just professional and represent a 500 million dollar industry, atleast not in my opinion.

I started HHA for one reason ONLY... to PROMOTE the haunted house industry. You get a magazine, a buyers guide, a vendor discount program, everyone wins no one loses.

What Leonard said on his website is NOT true... I called him personally and told him the facts, and he listened, but I don't really care if he wants to believe anything I say because at the end of the day I don't really care.

Everyone can think what they want... I stand on my record that I go out of my way to support this industry. If you ever talk to someone who called me up for help I told them whatever I knew.

I run a real business building attractions and run a haunted houses... this website or magazine stuff is support for this industry.

That is my view...

I do encourage you to join the HHA and show support for real attraction owners, operators, and vendors. We need a voice for an industry that supports our business. If you don't believe that is my only intentions don't join.

Period!

Larry

[MDKing]

I think there is room for both organizations, because there are so many opinions in this industry that everyone couldn't hope to agree on just one. If artwork was stolen that is inexcusable, and using another haunt's name for their benefit undermines they're own success. IAHA has done some good things, it's not all bad and many members are concerned about the well being of our industry's direction. But there has been endless drama spilled out on message boards now for years and leadership comes and goes but the issues apparently do not.

So where do we go from here?


Allan

[drfrightner]

That is some pretty crooked stuff, stealing people's artwork they paid for is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Allan

Allan,

He didn't just under false pretense obtain my Darkness Artwork, but he posed as the Darkness in his local market and NATIONALLY on the web and on ticketweb.com and was listed on Ticketweb.com as the 3rd best haunted house in the nation by AOL.com.

He is very unethical. He told both myself and Brainstorm on a three way call in 2005 that he would remove and desist using the name The Darkness and my artwork, only to put it back up and start using it again the following year. When I called him to the carpet on it the following year, he said 'there must be a misunderstanding, I thought you said I could use it this year'.

Here is a part of an email TIM SENT ME on October 18th, 2006.

Larry, I told you I would change the icon character and I have. I do not think you own the name the Darkness, but if you do I will gladly change it in the future. However, I will contact my attorney and you and your attorney can deal with him.

So, I am sorry you are pissed and I am sure that not to many customers in MO or in Southern IL are confused about which is which.

I am always available to talk Larry.

Sincerely


Timothy and Ann Marie Gavinski
Owners
Nightmares4U,Inc



Now Allan you tell me how could he say to me that he doesn't think I own the name and this is after an entire YEAR more he tried to use it, and a year after he said he would STOP using it. Call Doug from Brainstorm he was on the three way call when he said he was sorry and would stop using it. But nooooo... he put it back up on his site, posed as me nationally. The other funny thing here is this... his last line states that no one in St. Louis or Southern Il, is confused my Darkness from his.

WHAT... YOU POSED AS THE 3rd BEST HAUNT IN AMERICA rated by AOL.com on Ticketweb.com. You don't call that trying to confuse people????

I should have just outright sued him, but he was trying to convince his haunt was nothing, he was in the middle of no where, he had nothing, blah, blah... now he tells people his haunt is all this and that and a slice of butter.

The IAHA board did NOTHING when this was brought to their attention that their PRESIDENT misled Brainstorm Studios to obtain my artwork, posed as The Darkness nationally, and told me one minute he would stop using my name and remove everything only for him to put it all back up a year later and then to tell me we don't own the name The Darkness.

After my lawfirm got down with him he removed EVERYTHING but NOT until after he already established his haunt as the 3rd best in the nation! He's a loser flat out!

But he's the President of IAHA... so what does that tell you!

Larry

[MDKing]

That is some pretty crooked stuff, stealing people's artwork they paid for is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Allan

[Mr Nightmarez]

Follow up from Haunted Attraction Forums

Larry- Leonard responded!

After receiving an hour long phone call from Mr. Kirchner, I apparently was misguided in my previous post.

The URL in question was brought to the table by Larry when he was president, after being the IAHA website for over a year, the IAHA never owned the URL, and although the IAHA was allowed to use the Larry's URL while he was on the board, it was never owned by the IAHA.

The IAHA tried to buy the URL several times but Larry would not sell. Once the rest of the board decided Larry would not sell, there was a vote to remove him. Larry resigned before he was removed.

Larry says, "The HHA.org web site is a tool for the media. I am trying to promote the industry with national public relations program." The HHA will have no board of directors, no formal structure. Save $10 on a HauntWorld subscription and a buyer's guide by joining the HHA.

[graystone]

Hum

Ladies ladies surly this can be corrected if you just contact them they will make it right. I mean I cant see either one of you getting screwed thats not done in this industry. Lets hope for one or the other ones sake someone can squeeze blood from a turnip.!!!! Lmao and I thought I had problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Who hoooooo got to love it.

[bodybagging]

And what is the advantage for a vendor to join hha, other than offer 5% discounts to other members? What does a vendor get out of this arrangement, for their membership? For the record this is a serious question, not one of my typical smartbutt replies. Case in Point, why would I pay IAHA however much they ask for a business membership, just to offer 10% discounts to IAHA members, I know the sales speel of IAHA members are encouraged to only purchase from IAHA vendors, but point blank, If I have something that a IAHA member wants they are going to buy it regardless.... Its HUMAN NATURE to get what you want. I just seem to be missing the benefits for Vendors to pay for a membership. Its like giving money to give away more money. someone educate me please.

[Tattoo]

Larry,

You and I have talked about this, If you choose to delete this that is your choice.

I NEVER! And I will repeat it again, I NEVER kept you from being a sponsor on the Frozen Tundra Tour!

EVERY Sponsor that was involved donated something, you told me that I should basically give you a free spot and I said no.

The point was for the Industry to work together on this tour, wow man, I really thought we were past this BS!

I'll go charge my phone now!


TATTOO
( The same Tattoo that loves this Industry and Holiday, not the BullShit that comes with it!)