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  • #31
    So if your a member of both you could get double the discounts plus the show discount!
    What a deal!

    Larry C.
    www.abracadaver.com
    abracadaverprops@mac.com

    Comment


    • #32
      Stereo!!!!
      The word for the day is NPD. Check it out.

      Comment


      • #33
        HHA vs. the IAHA, it’s really a shame that we even have the ask such a question.Ben and Larry both covered most of the really important points. (Boy you’re a little busy working on the Haunt Tour for you guys and I miss everything!!!)

        I have been an IAHA member since day ONE! I was not at the discussion that formed the idea of an association; I was at the first official meeting. Not owning a Haunt yet (research mission), I was invited to the meeting to hear the spiel. Afterwards they asked me to join..??? I said, “but I don’t OWN a Haunted House.” And I was told it’s OK as long as you are interested, besides you said you probably will anyway! I had a problem right there, I really would have preferred if I was NOT allowed to join! Its very title states it is an association of HANUTED ATTRACTIONS, NOT Haunted Attraction Enthusiasts. I was hoping it was a little more exclusive! To me this has always been the biggest underlying problem… identity!

        Over the years, believing what the Association could become, I have fought to rectify that misguidance, to no avail. IAHA has the notion that it needs NUMBERS to be effective. Quantity over quality. If you can’t get enough Haunt Owners, get the actors, get the vendors, get the enthusiasts. That is NOT to say that those people don’t have a function within a association, or that they are unimportant. It’s just that they just that they shouldn’t be the FOCUS of the association. My example had always been… who is a member of the American Dental Association?…dentists or people who are INTERESTED in dentistry?? Every other trade type association has a requirement that you are actually IN the trade. Some have arrangements for Associate Members, which is something WE should have done. Face it, 90 percent of the Haunt Owners were at one time Home Haunters. It is sort of the “minor leagues” of our industry. So Owners understand where Home Haunters come from, but no way can a Home Haunter understand what it takes to be an actual Haunt OWNER.

        The IAHA still will not come to grips with this dilemma. It STILL does not have focus. First we focus on communication, but the biggest problem is not LACK of communication. You have a Ghost President who NEVER speaks to the membership, never responds to issues, when we do get something in TAP it’s totally useless! When members such as myself bring up issues to try and address problems and move forward do we communicate? NO! The Association does nothing to respond except maybe “we’re discussing that at the next Board meeting”. Or “we responded to the individual directly”. The point of communication is that PEOPLE want to know. If one person has a question chances are several others do also. People like myself bring these issues up and instead of addressing them, they just label that person a trouble maker! Attitude is bury our heads in the sand and hope the issue just goes away.

        The IAHA is working AGAINST its members not FOR their members! As soon as TW announced the move to Vegas, myself and Randy Grigg, both IAHA members, figured it would be up to us to do a Haunt tour. Instead of support, we find out a competing tour is planned lead by our own IAHA President. I inform everyone immediately, not to worry a tour will be run by to IAHA members and we will of course involve the IAHA. We are ignored and plans continue around us. Not knowing ANYTHING about our market they continued with the attitude of ‘we don’t need them we’ll just get another nearby haunt in the area!!! There are NO other haunts available!! So because of this we did not involve the IAHA at all.

        Did it hurt us not having the IAHA backing??? Well we have well over 500 people attending the Tour!! That’s 500 attendees that the IAHA will not have access to. Many new west coast attendees that are not members!!! Twice the attendees, twice the exposure that was generated from last year’s tour and the IAHA is no where to be seen. Was it a smart move?

        The association decides it “needs” a census. They ask all the WRONG questions. Questions that no owners wants to provide. Major owners complain and explain the situation, offer to help correct it.. Modify the census and it could be useful. Do they change it? NO! Communication? I think not! The association is doing what IT thinks is important, NOT was the owners think is important.

        Again, as everyone has stated, there are some people involved who are doing a great job. But what happens is they will keep banging their heads against the wall and eventually they ask “why?” And then you loose another qualified and productive member. Does anyone notice that the strongest advocates are only against the actions of the association NOT an actual association?? Our goal is what the Association’s goal should be… What’s best for the industry? Does anyone notice that the strongest opinions are those of people who have already BEEN Board Members??? We have already “walked a mile in heir shoes”, we’ve already “been there, done that.” One would think you would heed the opinion of such members. Instead they label them troublemakers!

        The HHA may be the right answer. Everyone has tried repeatedly to fix the problem. Powers that be want to keep things status quo. The only solution may be to start over and do it right this time. Larry, love him or hate him, you can NEVER doubt his motive…what’s BEST for the industry. I have seen him take a stance that wasn’t good for him personally, but made best sense for the industry. He has not been afraid to change his position if you show him he’s wrong. He was against a Vendor’s program saying people can cut their own deal. In discussions, some of us made the points that while true, an association might be able to pull more weight and get a better deal. There are some people who just aren’t good at negotiation so a program can accomplish it for them. Larry sees the merit and gets behind a program full force!!! Show him he’s wrong he changes. Something the IAHA has yet to realize.

        I have been a card carrying IAHA advocate since 1999. I need to focus on my business and what makes sense for the industry that is responsible for my income. Parties, banquets, raffles, and other fluff may be fun, but I need issues resolved. I want an association that REPRESENTS the industry, not compares us to a Tunnel of Love! If the HHA can fill the void so be it. At least Larry understands that if Haunt owners have a problem with something, you look into it. As long as the HHA continues the address problems and represent the industry it will gain support. IF it doesn’t, people like Ben, Rich Hanf and myself will be there to post constructive criticism. As Ben said HHA…yes. If it helps my business it’s a no-brainer.
        R&J Productions
        Las Vegas, NV
        www.LasVegasHaunts.com

        Comment


        • #34
          I've always been of the mind set, that if you can take one good thing or idea away from anything it's worth it. Be it a magazine, seminar, tradeshow etc. etc. We've all thumbed through pointless magazines, or sat in a "yawner" of a seminar, but sometime you have that moment when you're about half asleep, and the light bulb turns on, and you say "I didn't think of that, that's a great idea"

          This being said, just being a part of either association can have benefits to your business, you Join IAHA, you get TAP magazine, access to the email discussion list (ok sometimes that's not a good thing), and discounts with vendors and some tradeshows (IAAPA for example).

          With the new HHA, you get (so far) Hauntworld magazine, some vendor discounts, etc. (side note: for $49, most already get the magazine, so why not)

          I guess what I'm trying to say, is why not join both. I don't see either organization has gotten to where they are a real force for the industry, so let's see what happens, and if you get that one useful piece of information for your business from either organization along the way, great.

          I don't know Larry personally, only from communication on the boards here or via email. I can say I don't always agree with him, but I do respect people who "do" things, instead of sitting back. So if he thinks he can create an association that will benefit the industry, great, give it a chance.

          At some point in the future I guess you'll be able to determine where you get more benefit to your business. If eventually one association covers everything for you, make your decision at that point.

          I have heard plenty of talk about associations having only professional haunt owners as members, we know that's not the case with IAHA. Larry, maybe I missed it somewhere, but are all the members of HHA so far, professionals, and will it be limited to only professionals?

          Chris Stafford
          IAHA Member
          HHA Member
          Chris Stafford
          1331 Entertainment Group
          Denver Haunted Houses - The Asylum & 13th Floor Haunted House http://www.getscared.com
          13th Floor Haunted House - San Antonio, Texas http://www.13thfloorsanantonio.com
          13th Floor Haunted House - Phoenix, Arizona http://www.13thflooraz.com

          Comment


          • #35
            Chris,

            Good points!

            I will only tell you this... Greg made a point that I was critical of the IAHA discount program. Actually I wasn't, I had said to Dan many times that he did a lot of great hard work. I think there is a lot of value to it, my real beef with it was they would accept ANY offer, even silly ones like 'if you spend this much we'll give you a discount' or offers like 'for only new clients' or offers that where lower than ones you could already get.

            I just think you have to hold yourself, your association, and your goals to a higher standard! If you're going to do a discount program then make it worth the paper its printed on. Same goes for board members... IAHA board c'mon now... over half do not own attraction, or even are suppliers.

            Ben makes mention of Randy Young...he neither owns a haunted house, works at a haunted house, or supplies any product or service to our industry, yet that makes him qualified to write a census for a 500 million dollar industry and be paid $2500 to do so.

            If you want to be a board member of IAAPA, you have to meet certain qualifications, you must go through a process, fill out paperwork, have references, and more. With IAHA they'll take anyone who says they'll join on... and then not hold those people to their status and make them do something. Most board members DO NOTHING! I know I was there!

            The other half of the board members are there for their own popularity, because they want to feel important, and want to help friends, hand out money...YOUR MONEY!

            There are some board members who I have a lot of respect for and that starts with Jim Smith, Brett Bertolino, and I will say Dan was one of the CLEAR workhorses.

            I second Ben's post ... for every good thing they try to do they do two or three things that make no sense. I know why... they WILL NOT accept REAL leadership, or they would NEVER accept a board that could run this thing for a professional industry. If you went out and got mostly attraction owners they see a bigger picture and know how to get it done, most of the current board members would lose their perceived power. I can't function in a group that does not ONLY WORK FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR BUSINESS!

            There is NO other reason to have an association... buying you a video, a book bag, dinner, or whatever are things you can do for yourself! They BEG for support, and every time they buy you something it goes to show they can't really do anything that will impact your business.

            Its not a shot its a fact!

            I hope to find people who will change all of that and make your business GROW...

            That is the only goal.

            I've always said and will continue to say, buy every magazine, buy every book, go to many seminars, however I wouldn't say join both associations. Because when you do you give your money to those who run the thing, and you essentially give them the right to say they represent your industry.

            Do you agree with the way they spend their money to help this industry?

            Did they impact your business? Did they help you put more bodies in your door? I think we all know the answers to that... did you agree with them giving a fellow board member $2500 to write a census that you didn't fill out?

            YOUR MONEY PAID FOR THAT...YOUR SUPPORT gave them in what they feel is their right to do whatever they want. I'm done with that.

            I do think you make good points though... keep an open mind that is the best advice I think for anyone.

            Larry
            Larry Kirchner
            President
            www.HalloweenProductions.com
            www.BlacklightAttractions.com
            www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
            www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Ghost Ride Production is the latest to join the HHA discount vendor program.

              They will offer EXCLUSIVE 10% to all HHA member, with no strings attached.

              It was like pulling teeth to get Mike to cough up 10%, but he understands our mission, he knows what we can do, what we will do, and how it will impact his business and this industry.

              THIS IS THE ONLY reason he joined our program!

              WOW... if you're already a magazine subscriber you can join for $20.00 RIGHT NOW and get THOUSANDS of discounts at Transworld in one week!!!!

              Plus you'll get a MAJOR buyers guide mailed to your home this summer!

              Larry
              Larry Kirchner
              President
              www.HalloweenProductions.com
              www.BlacklightAttractions.com
              www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
              www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

              Comment


              • #37
                We joined IAHA 2 years ago, but when the dues were up again, we didn't feel like it was worth anywhere near what it costs. I just don't see a great deal of benefit from IAHA (at least right now). I joined HHA recently. I appreciate the lack of politics and a single mission to help the industry.
                Bill C. Schnell
                Dark Son Productions
                NecroPlanet Haunted Attractions
                www.NecroPlanet.com

                Comment


                • #38
                  More discounts...

                  I will offer a 5 % discount
                  Joe Persampiere
                  HAUNTEDPROPS.COM
                  Complete line of Animatronics / Electric Props/Haunted House Props/ Halloween Costumes/ Halloween Masks/
                  Bloody Static Props / Custom Facades
                  5% show discount to all members
                  Website: Hauntedprops.com
                  E Mail: sales@hauntedprops.com
                  PH: 631 220 3424


                  MORE COMING SOON!!!!!!!!!! Let me tell you people as a FACT... you can love me, you can hate me, you can feel indifferent about me... doesn't matter.

                  WE ARE DOING THIS AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THIS WILL HELP YOUR BUSINESS NO TWO WAYS ABOUT!!!!

                  This discount vendor program will be THE BEST anyone offers.

                  Join today...www.hauntedhouseassociation.org

                  MORE discounts coming soon!

                  Larry
                  Larry Kirchner
                  President
                  www.HalloweenProductions.com
                  www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                  www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                  www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Let me explain a bit further. As a haunt owner, you may join several associations or groups that could benefit your business, in addition to IAHA or HHA, you could join IAAPA, TEA, maybe even DAFE. Although you don't necessarily fit exactly into all of these associations, they may have some information that could benefit your business (the one piece possibly I referred to in my last post). If the cost to join these organizations seems reasonable in relation to the information that you are exposed to, maybe it's a good idea for you to join.

                    Thats how I see the IAHA vs HHA thing, perhaps they will go in different directions. I know nothing of the inner workings of either, but lets just say for arguments sake, that IAHA focuses on all inclusive approach (owners, actors, enthusiasts), and HHA focuses solely on professional attraction owners. As a haunt owner I can gather useful information from both sources, I like to hear what our actors and enthusiasts think, and sometimes if I have a pressing question or concern, I only want to hear what other owners think.

                    You do bring up some very good points about how money is spent, and what impact it has had on my business. I will admit that I really hadn't thought about it that much, as far as my membership fee, it wasn't much money, so I didn't pay that close of attention. Collectively, the membership dues are a lot of money, and after your questions, I may pay closer attention.

                    I guess it's just that at this point, my expectations for either association, haven't been very high. This isn't a slam on either, it's just that neither has yet become, as you put it, the association that "represents our industry", and until one does my expectations will remain low. In the mean time, I suggest people take from either association what they want. In the past, I have utilized the IAHA vendor discount program, I even received the discount gracefully from some vendors that I was already doing business with. I also utilized IAHA's relationship with IAAPA to receive discounts on some registrations for their tradeshow. So in my opinion, my IAHA membership has paid for itself, and if I garner any information I think is useful, it's a bonus, why not be a member. I just joined HHA, but I can already see, that by the vendor discounts that have been announced, it's well worth the investment of $49. When you were President of IAHA, I believe you spearheaded the PR campaign, and I will say that it was definitely good for everyones business. You've eluded to it in your posts, but if this new association continues those efforts, it's good for the industry, members or not, I would definitely support the association.

                    Let me say, I do hope that one or both of the associations, picks up steam, heads in the right direction and is a positive force for our industry.

                    Also, I did ask the question in my last post, will the HHA membership be comprised only of professional attraction owners? Or is everyone welcome to join? I'm a bit confused by your posts, I couldn't tell if you mean that the entire association should be made up of professional owners, or just the leadership.

                    Chris
                    Chris Stafford
                    1331 Entertainment Group
                    Denver Haunted Houses - The Asylum & 13th Floor Haunted House http://www.getscared.com
                    13th Floor Haunted House - San Antonio, Texas http://www.13thfloorsanantonio.com
                    13th Floor Haunted House - Phoenix, Arizona http://www.13thflooraz.com

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Ed Edmunds
                      Distortions Unlimited Corp.
                      152 30th St.
                      Greeley, CO 80631
                      970-351-0100
                      distortionsunltd@aol.com
                      www.distortionsunlimited.com
                      Discount Offer: 5% in addition to any general disocunt we're offering (such as a Transworld discount)
                      Company Info. Animatronics, Props, masks, hands, costumes ... in business 30yrs.


                      ANOTHER DISCOUNT
                      Larry Kirchner
                      President
                      www.HalloweenProductions.com
                      www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                      www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                      www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Chris,

                        Here is the ONLY WAY TO VIEW IT...

                        I'm NOT asking you for ONE PENNY!!! You might say huh, $50.00 isn't one penny. NOPE...not one PENNY!

                        I'm selling magazine subscriptions for $29.95 and I will be selling the buyers guide, which will be THE BEST buyers guide offered, for $29.95.

                        That is $60.00. If you own a haunted house you're buying both anyway but for $60.00.

                        What I'm doing with HHA right now, is collecting all the members for a future, formation for a real association for real professional owners, operators and vendors. You can NOT have an association for 50 or 60 haunt owners like IAHA has...I mean c'mon people. They've been at this for over 10 years now, and they can't manage but a handful of haunt owners as members.

                        We have SHOWN THE WAY... America Haunts has organized a national public relations campaign two years straight and have given the industry MILLIONS!

                        We've done more in two years than IAHA has done in 12, or another 12 for that matter. What does that show you? It shows you that if you own an attraction, and you have common goals you can accomplish MAJOR THINGS!!!!

                        What do you care about the book bags IAHA buys you, or millions of dollars in public relations for the industry, or a group that provides you incredible information?

                        Here is the REAL bottom line...

                        Everyone even their IAHA's OWN board members say the whole thing was SET UP WRONG FROM THE START... their bylaws need to be changed, they have talked over and over and over and over again about how to change them to help the association become something more for professional owners.

                        Here is your chance... we get this thing up to 500 to 1000 owners and next thing you know a REAL association is formed with a full time office staff, just like IAAPA, just like IELA, just like EVERY other professional association.

                        Correct?

                        As for who can join... ANYONE, just like IAAPA. However when the boards are formed, this association should follow in the footsteps of IAAPA not IAHA.

                        You want people you can trust to push your industry forward!

                        Even those who are just starting out want the same thing, its the only way to do it. Larry
                        Larry Kirchner
                        President
                        www.HalloweenProductions.com
                        www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                        www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                        www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hha

                          Larry I made this post this morning and now its gone what kind of discount are you offering off of Hauntworld? Correct me if I am wrong but was my first post deleted? I know when we as haunt owners buy banners ect from you we pay. So I was hoping should I say we were hoping to see what you will be offering? Inquiring minds want to know? Also on a personal note looking foreward to meeting you again at Transworld.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Pale Night Productions

                            Pale Night Productions is a company that specializes in high quality, low
                            cost animations and special effects. PNP also does a considerable amount
                            of custom prop fabrication. With actual degree holding engineers doing
                            all design and fabrication work, you can be sure that a product from Pale
                            Night Productions is a product that will last you for many seasons.

                            Additional 5% off any product prices (including TransWorld prices). Also,
                            for every $1000 spent with us at TransWorld HHA members will receive a
                            FREE bottle of our Perma-Blood. That's an additional $40 value on top of
                            the already great savings!

                            www.palenightproductions.com

                            kpolley@palenightproductions.com

                            (618) 616-2533

                            --
                            Kip Polley, B.S. MfgE, CMfgT
                            Owner / Operator
                            Pale Night Productions, L.L.C.
                            (618) 616-2533
                            www.palenightproductions.com
                            Larry Kirchner
                            President
                            www.HalloweenProductions.com
                            www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                            www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                            www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Shane,

                              LOL...

                              Boy you're relentless!!! LOL I love you trust me!

                              Yes I will offer a discount. My problem is right now that I sell everything through my store www.hauntedhousesupplies.com. I am rebuilding this site right now with a NEW shopping cart program that will allow me to give discounts, and promotional codes.

                              I can't say... oh you can have 10% off because my shopping cart program won't do that right now, and I don't actually get your CC info so I can't then turn around and credit it to you.

                              However my NEW shopping cart program will used for everything from online tickets to my store... this new program is AWESOME!

                              Just so you believe me here is a screen shot of the new store so you know its in the works.

                              But when my store goes live Hauntworld.com will indeed by offering discounts, and discounts on banners, advertisement, dvd's, and everything between!

                              One thing you can bank on... it will be EXCLUSIVE to HHA. LOL

                              Larry
                              Attached Files
                              Larry Kirchner
                              President
                              www.HalloweenProductions.com
                              www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                              www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                              www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Whoops...the second image I added was of the new yellow pages, but the first one is an inside page of the new store.

                                FYI... for those interested check out this shopping cart program. Its worth its weight in gold!!!

                                http://www.fortune3.com/

                                Larry
                                Larry Kirchner
                                President
                                www.HalloweenProductions.com
                                www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                                www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                                www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                                Comment

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