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  • Midwest Haunters Convention - Industry Perspective

    I occasionally read forums, but have never posted my thoughts. I generally work all hours of the day (and don’t have time to devote to a forum). After reading the numerous posts on the issue of haunted attraction trade shows; I’ve asked my wife, Neena to post my comments:

    I’ve been attending Transworld (TW) for 13+ years and have looked forward to every visit with my haunter friends. The drive from Columbus, Ohio was a challenge most years with ice and snow. The cost for hotels, parking and meals at the convention center/hotel were expensive. The classes were geared towards producers and retail managers. Haunts with small budgets, actors, makeup artists, not-for profit haunts and home haunters weren’t welcome to attend. I understood they weren’t spending enough money to justify allowing them to roam the aisles and collect samples and catalogs.

    We were discussing this audience and decided to create a convention that included a vendor trade show, bus tours and masquerade parties with contests. Our goal was to attract vendors with very affordable booth space and to treat them as partners. We wanted to give actors a chance to learn makeup techniques, acting styles and character development. We wanted to provide producers with classes on business skills and makeup artists a place to share their talents and compete with their peers. We also believed haunters would relish the opportunity to show off their characters at parties and interact with fellow monsters. This year; 38 home haunters attended our day long Getting Started in the Haunted Attraction Industry class. Home Haunters and Halloween enthusiasts enjoy the opportunity to learn from our experienced instructors too. Registrants had over 50+ classes to choose from and were able to attend 5 weekend classes for only $89.

    The four MHC producers all have full time jobs and we work on MHC year around. We had 40+ volunteers assisting us at the show. This is another way we are able to keep our costs low. Yes, we know what it takes to put on a quality haunters convention and we work very hard at it, but we love it too. It’s our love of the industry that drives us. We have many friends in this industry and make new friends every year at our show. Now that the show is over; we’ll be making plans for our haunt, Terror Park at Cooper Stadium.

    Our initial plans were to hold our show in July for the procrastinators out there who wait until the last minute to purchase their props and supplies. Also some people have limited funds and don’t want to spend their money until the last few months before the season. We found that most vendors don’t have a problem stocking inventory to sell during our show. It was the large custom prop builders who needed more than 60-90 days to build to order.

    Many vendors welcomed the opportunity to discount their remaining inventory and sell for cash and carry at our show. In fact, most of our vendors sell everything they bring to our show. The Columbus Convention Center is a non-union facility and vendors can unload their own trucks and don’t pay drayage charges. This saves everyone money. Our host hotel, the Hyatt Regency is holding their rate to $115 a night and meals are available under $7 at the nearby food court.

    The 2009 MHC (June 5, 6 & 7) will be held in a 100,000 sq ft trade show hall, hotel rooms within walking distance, a pre-convention bus tour, a Friday night tour and a Saturday night party with contests in a 15,000 sq ft ballroom.

    We have tried moving up in the year (Jan thru May), but we’re having problems finding sufficient trade show space with hotel rooms and a ballroom large enough for our party. We’ve started expanding our search to surrounding states, but we have specific facility needs. Our program is currently working very well and our growth has exceeded our expectations.

    Do we need to change our dates? Can’t haunt producers with big budgets place their orders in June with delivery the following June? You would provide vendors with revenue during the off season and most would probably offer you discounts on the flexible lead time. If you are spending serious money on large props, you can surely arrange a visit to the vendor in the off season and place your order on location. Even these pro’s can use some last minute supplies in June. Many currently bring their actors to MHC for training and help them purchase makeup supplies and costume accessories.

    When TW moved to Vegas this year; we saw a huge increase in vendors and attendees. We have never had any intention of competing with TW. We started out with a target that was excluded by their show. We will continue to support TW because they’ve been the catalyst that created and promoted our industry. They are a large company with many resources and those expenses aren’t cheap. Hosting their show in major cities is expensive and working with union facilities increase exhibitor costs. The suggestion to move to a “second tier” city can reduce costs, but that comes with challenges too. Many of those have been addressed in posts already.

    Unfortunately TW has made a few mistakes that have caused a rift with their vendors. It looks like the show will have many challenges ahead with their costume and party store vendors splitting off to hold their own show in Houston. They don’t want “haunters” there either. Two TW shows just months apart will create even more challenges. I agree that a national show is needed for the custom prop builders and those haunts with large budgets for props and the desire to be the first in their market with the latest haunt item. IAAPA in November in Orlando has the opportunity to step up and fill this gap. The biggest challenge they face is that many haunt producers are still tearing down in November while trying to get caught up on postponed household/family responsibilities.

    Thank you everyone for your time. I hope this provides some insight into the business of hosting such type of conventions.

    Kelly Collins, President
    Mid-Ohio Productions
    Neena Collins | MidOhio Productions

    Midwest Haunters Convention
    June 3-5, 2011 Columbus, Ohio
    www.MidwestHauntersConvention.com

  • #2
    Kelly,

    A couple things... first off let me thank you for all the hard work you guys do. I realize more than anyone that many times it is a thankless job, and takes a lot of passion not drive for money that usually makes these things happen.

    Again kudos!

    Now to address your concerns. The MHC and shows like it have created an environment that in my mind is not the atmosphere of a buyer seller show. They are more social in nature and less on 'bring those check books'. It is very funny how we always talk about how the retail buyer/vendor does not want the haunted house owners around. Actually I don't think they minded as much as we think...I think they are confused with all the horror fans, enthusiasts, and the like that showed up in Chicago.

    In Vegas and because the show was in Vegas all that got cut down to the bone. Yes it didn't look as busy but Scarefactory still sold as much if not more than ever, so did Ghost Ride, and many others. This show isn't about make up wars, and zombie walks, this is about people who own a business.

    Transworld should have never advertised in Fangoria, they should have always charged an entry fee, then the rift between the retail side and the haunt side may have never happened. Haunted house owners, Six Flags, Busch Gardens and the like shouldn't be confused with horror fans, or people walking around in monster costumes but they are.

    I do not want to go to a show to do business with a bunch of half naked zombies, people dressing up like clowns or whatever. Vendors don't want make up wars, or contests, or any of that stuff, they want people with check books sitting down and discussing business.

    Getting drunk, acting stupid, or dressing up should or can be done another time, another day, or at the hotel later that night, but during the show, the focus has to be QUALIFIED BUYERS for vendors products.

    MHC markets to everyone which is great, but not everyone buys Scarefactory props, only specific people buy $1200.00 pigs from Ghost Ride, or $3000 costumes from Gore Galore. You have to choose a path if you want to be a buyer seller show, even though many will say different than myself, they will say the two can exist, but they can't.

    The haunted house industry, is just that an industry, not a circus, not a zombie walk, not a hearse rally, it is an industry.

    Buyers want QUALIFIED BUYERS, and when you want to focus on just qualified buyers then you change the WHOLE ENTIRE structure of what has made MHC successful. In order to make your show THE buyers show you'd have to alienate many people, chop out several elements of your show to make it work. This is my opinion, however I think if you talk to the serious buyer or the serious vendor you'll find this is in fact the case.

    MHC is in my mind first and foremost a social event, as is Hauntcon. With so many distractions and so many different people being invited to the party there is no focus on JUST the haunted house industry, which is made up of the buyers and the sellers.

    I agree there is a time and place for mixing all of that with all the other elements, and there you have MHC, but again then the focus is not solely on selling products to qualified buyers.

    This I feel is your dilemma if you change the direction of your show towards being a more oriented buyers sellers show.

    Something you should ponder long and hard about.

    I know it would be a very tough decision for you!

    Larry
    Larry Kirchner
    President
    www.HalloweenProductions.com
    www.BlacklightAttractions.com
    www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
    www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Larry,

      But one problem/issue is people like myself and my business partner... Who will go to a show, collect a TON of info... But not place one single order at the show, but wait until we are back here in KY too disscuss what we want, where it could go, and how to use it; THEN we place our orders!!! So you can't completely alienate the buyers to one certain group of people!

      But I think a show should be set-up with a dress-code or some type of business etique (or however you spell it) that must be followed. I agree, the show floor needs to be strictly business without all the distractions. -Tyler
      Chris Riehl
      Sales@spookyfinder.com
      (586)209-6935
      www.spookyfinder.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Tyler

        I do the exact same thing. While in Vegas I spent 3500.00 but when I got back and decided and thought about what I wanted when all was said and done I had sent out 35,000 in checks lol. But again I still want to see the Halloween/Haunt stay as one. Shane
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok, here goes nothing.

          First and foremost Kelly, Neena, Barry, and Kathy, Have done a wonderful job with MHC. MHC is still in its infancy, only being I believe 5 or 6 years now. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication to the haunt industry.

          If I recall properly (and I do have pictures to prove it) there were half naked women walking around at TW in 07 and a whole lot of models downstairs wearing VERY little. At TW where do all the vendors do business?

          I as a vendor, I will stand behind and support MHC no mater what they do. I as well as MANY other vendors enjoy all the goings on at MHC. It is nice to unwind and have a little fun after a day working a booth. Not everyone that drinks, gets drunk. I seen some of the Largest vendors at MHC at the party. So if the dislike it so much why do they take part?

          If a Buyer come up to me and wanted to talk 25,000 dollar Props you better believe I would take them somewhere where we could talk. Most likely I would take them out for dinner and discuss matters before during and after dinner. I do believe this happens everyday in the business world.

          As fas as the Zombie walk that came through the convention. It was in NO way part of the convention. As far as people in costumes walking around the trade show floor, If I were selling costumes. What better way to get peoples attention. We are at the trade show to promote and sell. If we did not show off our goods, How else would we sell them. Be it costumes, acting, Props, wall panels, or electronic gadgets.

          In my opinion the only reason you are lobbying so hard for St Louis is, it would be a Win Win for you. Any decent business person can see that.

          The overhead that it costs to attend TW is unrealistic. 1200 to 2000 a booth with no electric or air. That is why the BIG prop company's have to charge so much for their goods. To make it even worse Drayage fees Accommodation's, and meals your now talking 2000 to 3000 a booth not including inventory to stock, build, and ship. This kind of overhead is just a business killer.

          Kelly, Neena, Barry and Kathy, You guys & gals have a great thing going. Keep up the hard work that never seems to end.

          Just my 2 cents!
          Ken
          www.boocrewproduction.com

          Comment


          • #6
            I understand the need for real business, qualified buyers and being professional but, in order to do this and have this environment, you should also qualify the sellers. If you don't want half naked people, don't have body art people, if you don't want people with make up on, don't have make up demos and vendors.

            Don't sell videos and DVDs that would have a wide appeal and cut out all the magazines looking for 6000 plus subscribers. All of these vendors were told to invite customers, for even a $15 product.

            It could be entirely by invite with only a certain kind of product that does not attract the social element.

            But, now there are indeed 6,000 people wandering the country with the names of all of these companies on the tip of their tongues, people change from actor or artist to owner to buyer over time and even define the goals of what they would like to do next and to what level over years, even decades of life experience realtive to seeing what is out there in the market for real.

            Yet, I got into a little art history recently since the death of Robert Rauchenberg. It was something I studied 20 years ago. And now the overviews are a little more direct. The entire big art scene of the late 50's and 60's that made all of these artists house hold names for those with an intrest had one common thing going on. Any gallery showing had only a few hundred of the well to do that were there just to be noticed or to actually buy art that some individual peices are worth billions today. Yes billions. In the early 60's $1200 a piece was phenominal.

            The thing is it was the very same couple hundred people all the time over and over seeing every gallery offering and supporting it all in hard cold cash and media information. The same people. Just like when I look at Transworld pictures or even some of these social gatherings, it is all the same people. An elite that have somehow come about the means or methods to go to all of these gatherings and be seen. They might not be buying a single thing but, supporting the event with their presence.

            All of these people have spent so much just to be seen that they have no money to buy high dollar props. Of course the ones who decided not to show at all are even less qualified.

            The big name vendors are just going to have to live with this crap they created, trying to get the business by being there as the customers keep attending and grow into being their customers. If anything the social type shows are providing the service of being the primer to the whole unqualified segment of the population and there is no reason to knock them or pin them down as lesser. It is a different market. Plus if more local shows are available it will suck the resources out of them so they aren't a bother at the pro show.

            If there is to be some super elite buyer show, it shouldn't even be suggested on an Internet forum, it should be by invite only and all behind closed doors and run by a secret society. Perhaps missions can put watchers out at the other shows to make sure some professional hasn't screwed up and found himself wrongly in a social event when he really just wanted to spend thousand on props.

            Just don't let the watchers dress funny where we can pick them out.
            sigpic

            Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.

            Comment


            • #7
              Greg,

              But why couldn't all those companies be at a haunt only show and still be strictly business/profesional on the show floor? If one vendor sold make-up and had a booth, then yes, you should vend and have pics/demos of your work. Same goes to people that sell costumes. Let's take Bodybagging for example... it's GREAT to show off the costumes/masks/prosthetics... but buyers/attendees don't need to be like that on the show floor unless they are working or promoting a company that sells the items.

              I think what Larry is trying to point out is that the people who attend soley for socializing and who show up in costume and make-up just to stand out and have fun, and NOT do business, should NOT be at the show.

              I just think we need a haunt ONLY that means business and, dare I say it, a dress/etiquette code... idk. But i'd love to see a show like this with more of an IAAPA feel!!! -Tyler
              Chris Riehl
              Sales@spookyfinder.com
              (586)209-6935
              www.spookyfinder.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Correct... I'm saying people do not attend MHC to buy, they attend to socialize even though some buying happens. MHC has an image of a fun show, with a lot going on, but there isn't any serious buying going on. Same goes for Hauntcon and all the rest. They are done first and foremost to bring people together, have a ton of seminars, and activities and well tours and the vendor aspect sorta becomes an after thought.

                People don't bring check books to these shows, and vendors need to write orders to do shows no matter how much you charge for a booth. You can charge $500.00 you can charge $2000 it doesn't matter, the cost for travel, hotels and food are usually the same unless you are going to Rosemont, then you get raped! LOL

                That aside, vendors must have qualified buyers attend or it doesn't make sense to vend unless you are just trying to show support. I think everyone wants to show support for MHC, but that isn't enough. It cost money to attend shows, and if you don't sell product you lose time away from your shop where you fill orders.

                I'm not beating up on MHC, I'm saying if you want MHC to be a vendor show then eliminate all the make up wars, and all the other stuff that distracts people from buying from vendors, and additionally stop marketing the show to actors, and horror fans and the like.

                When I go to tradeshows I want to talk to qualified buyers. It is the shows responsibility to bring in buyers, qualified buyers, not bodies!

                It doesn't matter if 10,000 people attended MHC, if they don't bring in one qualified buyer for a $8000 scarefactory prop. It cost a lot of money to exhibit and without qualified buyers you don't write orders.

                Secondly, to answer Kelly's question VENDORS DO NOT want a Show in June...they want a show in January, or February to have a LONGER not SHORTER production season. June, April or May do NOT work! In the past maybe now, never.

                I own two haunted houses myself and I can tell you we start working on our haunted house off and on starting in December. If we started in June or July we'd never get it done. June does NOT work! At least not for me and I would assume most if not all vendors would not go along either.

                Taking orders in June and turning that product around in a few weeks when haunts open these days is impossible.

                Larry
                Larry Kirchner
                President
                www.HalloweenProductions.com
                www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is it just me?

                  Look we play with skeletons, dead bodies, bloody parts and dress as dead people, clowns, and freeks. Thats partly what this industry is about. There is no way people are gonna stand around all day in a suit and tie. There is no way people are going to attend a haunt only show and not have fun. Thats just part of it. It would be boaring taking the fun out of it would suck. All work and no play makes for a dull show. Shane
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A couple of points:

                    1. Larry, please call the buyer from Canada that spent $20K here and tell him that he is not a serious buyer. Please call my friend from Branson who only attended MHC this year and tell him he is not a serious buyer. Can we do more to get more of these types of buyers to Columbus? Yes! Are we working on it? Yes! But please do not lump everyone together.

                    2. Kelly's question was about ordering for the following year. You mentioned that you start in December. Ben has said he does his buying in November. Maybe a February show is too late. LOL

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Buying in June for Next June...

                      Believe it or not I do know folks who buy two years in advance.

                      But realistically I think most haunters will be more likely to sink cash into the following seasons show only AFTER they have completed the current season...November would in most cases be the earliest we would buy... Up till then you need your cash to operate!

                      But you are always LOOKING... I saw stuff at MHC I may fit into next years pre season order.... Thats what I like about the regional shows, they often turn up hidden gems.

                      Its all good...

                      Personally I think we have all beaten this Dead Horse into Steak Tartar...

                      The Vendors/ Convention orgainizers should just chose where they want to go and we will follow.

                      If we don't follow send us a catalog!

                      Lets see some Leadership here from the actual event orgainizers, I am all about forming a consensus but this is getting pretty silly. Pick a city, pick a date and call it done.

                      Plant the Flag.

                      Let move on to something fresh... Maybe Jim Warfield just found a new way to scare his customers with a small soap dish!

                      Thanks!

                      Ben
                      NETHERWORLD
                      Ben Armstrong
                      NETHERWORLD HAUNTED HOUSE
                      www.Fearworld.com
                      www.NetherworldNetwork.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ben, There's a good point. I have been involved in minor roles in shows in other industries and there is no pleasing everyone. But sometimes you try so hard to make everyone happy (or more likely not offend anyone) that sometimes you just have to make a decision and tell everyone that this is the way it's going to be. Afterwards, we will review the results and figure out what we are going to do next year but the next show will be here on this date. Why is that so hard for Transworld to do? Is it sill set for Vegas next year?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ok I have been trying really hard to stay off the boards and getting into industry debates, But all I can say is that to everyone saying that MHC is NOT a buyers show, Transworld 2007 I barely broke even, MHC 2007 I sold EVERYTHING I took including several Large Custom props.
                          fast forward to Transworld vegas 2008, we had a very good show, making a significant amount of profit but had to sell OVER $10,000 worth of product, just to reach the BREAKEVEN mark, MHC 2008 , we had very little actual product to sell cash and carry, we announced we would not be taking any orders, due to a large workload, plus we took on two booths instead of one. with all of this going against us for the show, we still made a significant amount of profit. This event may not be THE BUYERS SHOW, But do not be misled into thinking it is NOT a BUYERS SHOW. We do exceptionally well at MHC PointBlank.
                          Now with all the other hoopla with Transworld splitting up, I have no clue what BBE will be doing for 2008, We are Haunters foremost, But my main goal is to get our product into the retail chains, Make enough money that I can afford to continue giving Haunted House owners price breaks on products, and If TW seperates the two shows, I dont know what we will do for 2009, other than the one CONSTANT we will be at MHC no matter what!
                          Buried deep beneath Darksyde acres Haunted house In Michigan I'm the Best at what I do, What I do Isn't very NICE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think Larry's first post on the topic was DEAD ON! It would be wrong of me to comment on who comes and buys at MHC or Hauntcon as unfortunately I have not yet attended those conventions... yet. But I agree with the social aspects of the show do seem to attract more non-buyers or not serious buyers. Attractiing horror fans in a bad idea. Having our industry represented on show floors as zombies and people in costume looks bad, let's face it. It may make for a less fun show to some but we can have all the fun we want dressing up in October but when it's time to place the orders and discuss business and look for ways to take your business to the next level there should be a place where we go to conduct ourselves as professionals. After hour parties, shows, costumed characters can all be set aside for evening activities after the tradeshow is closed.


                            Allan
                            Last edited by MDKing; 06-29-2008, 07:57 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ben, I agree with you completely!

                              Allen, I agree with you and Larry to point but that is another discussion.

                              Here is an idea I mentioned in passing that nobody commented on:

                              In business there is the 80/20 rule that all of us are familiar with. 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. This ratio can be applied to many aspects of business and it can be applied here as well. I would argue that 80% of the dollars in this industry are spent with 20% of the vendors. 80% of those dollars are spent by 20% of the haunts in business.

                              If we are to have a strictly buyer/seller show then why don't those 20% of vendors put on their own show and fly in the 20% of buyers. This can be done very inexpensively and over the course of just a few days. 80% of the market's business is accomplished and everyone goes home. Meanwhile MHC and HauntCon continue to do what we have been doing all along.
                              Last edited by Barry; 06-29-2008, 07:54 AM.

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