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  • Prop Escrow

    After this season I am fed up with prop builders who want 40% down and shut there phones off when there ship date passes. This is getting way out of hand. This is just not small guys but big players too. Scarefactory is one of the worst. Because of this a prop escrow business like paypal could be used. Hell why dont these people use paypal. When someone has my money and says they will ship in 6 weeks they need to do it. I had shit showing up 2 weeks after I was open and the vendor had $17,000 of my money. Really pissed me off is they called the day before they shipped and said you need the balance so they could ship. I sent it that day and it a week to get them on the phone after the product didnt show up. Maybe we start a rating service or something. Any suggestions.

  • #2
    I feel exactly the same way you do. I've had plenty of stress over the years waiting for items to arrive in time for the season. Just a bit of info I'd like to pass on... the 2007 season is coming in 9 or 10 months. Seems simple enough that manufacturers should start gearing up for next year right now. It would be an amazing thing to be able to pick up the phone and order a product thats in stock and ready to go. I wonder how much business goes away because of lack of inventory and poor customer service? I'm starting early on the ordering process this year. Hopefully we can get our stuff before the TW rush and take advantage of off-season discounts from manufacturers.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think what happens is that on the bigger props they will make like one maybe two. Then they wait for orders and use some of the money to buy the stuff they need to build your prop. This is no way to run things because they will get behind and then someone will lose out. (and it will not be them) I think if your going to sell props you need to have a good inventory and ship it out when you get paid. I hear bad things all the time about vendors but I do know that there are good ones out there too. I like your idea of a rating service.
      Giving People The Chills Since 2005

      http://www.warehouse31.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Every year it's the same story, isn't it. Last year, after a slew of horror stories posted here, I suggested adding another board here so that Haunters could share their good and bad stories and allow the merchants to respond (if they dare/choose). This suggestion was disregarded at the time, but it is still an idea I support. The BEST way to promote good service is to allow people to post about the bad service they recieve.

        But then, I suppose it really depends what Larry wants this forum to be. If it is a forum for all professional haunters to exchange information, then a feedback forum like I suggested would be a great addition. I have seen this done in other industries with great results.

        A feedback forum is a good thing. It's good for the industry and it's good for struggling haunt owners. The only person it might not be good for is Larry as it might cut into his ad dollars.
        "To be matter-of-fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy - and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." Robert A. Heinlein

        Comment


        • #5
          OMFG - I thought it was just me!! :shock: Being from the UK it is 10 times worse because it can take months to come by boat and then sit in a customs warehouse for god knows how long.

          I provide exact instructions for shipping - how to describe the item etc. and still crap happens. But I am an expert at dealing with crap now having been through all the scenarios!

          I did tell a seller not to include the powered dye as it would cause problems - he ignored my advice and the customs guys got a nasty surprise when they opened it. Shipping powder is not a good idea. Unless it has special documentation.

          I have developed a nasty streak to avoid getting ripped off. International Fraud usually does the trick because is an actual avenue we can take. Over here it is very serious. The Birtish are nuts on this! 8) However when communication breaks down then it does make it hard and we actually have to file fraud charges and pursue a claim as well through insurance.

          The problem for me is that part of what I do is providing good for other people, not just ourselves! So it is often other people's money I have. We are honest with our customers and tell them up front. They are paying us for the hassle as well the goods.

          This is something I would like to expand and be able to offer people in the US a UK branch of their business. Shipping is a real hassle and I have good shipping connections. Plus I can get to the ports and Gatwick easily as well as provide storage, marketing and web-selling.

          Up until two years ago none of the shops had anything - at all! Zip, zero, zilch!! Now there are few bits (mostly crap) but I have to import everything - even the most basic components!! Most of the big stuff we make ourselves or partially make and then add the components or sometimes the severed heads etc.

          Hell - I've imported latex molds, poured plaster, resign, carved my own tombstones, painted latex blanks etc. etc.

          The problem is the prop makers. The products might be great and would certainly sell well but their unreliability and unprofessionalism is infuriating!!

          Being in the middle and having a jerk to deal with is crap. The PayPal escrow only works on small items (coming by courier or express) because the cut-off is 60 days for intial filing and then another 30 for resolution!

          I had a cretian partially ship an order as well as it being not being what I ordered and being faulty, but because our intially filing of the claim was 'non receipt' all they did was produce the shipping receipt and PayPal found favour with them.

          Were were out £2,000. However they did pay up eventually after some threatening legal action.

          I think a name them and shame them approach would be best. Perhaps a listing with a seller rating? If Haunts can be rated then why not prop makers?

          I like to think I am pretty careful about who I order from and I check them out to make sure I know who owns the company, their address, phone number, whether they are properly registered, etc. etc.

          But crap still happens. Sad really. Because one guy did great work and I would love to use him again and buy a whole crate load of his stuff to sell here but he is too flakey.

          I made a mistake once with some 'tombstone outfit' run by a woman named Vanessa in Florida. They had really good ones and not too 'mass manufactured'. Perfect for us and resale potential on the smaller ones. I ordered samples first and they were great - 5 foot tall grim reaper, 6 foot tall angel and some small ones. It was the plaster detailing that made them. I then placed a big order and then nothing..........dead air....... then the website went down.... and I read on blogs that they swindled a lot of people...

          Sorry for the rant but this makes me so mad!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

          If anyone knows of honest prop makers who would like help selling in the UK/Europe market PM me.

          Comment


          • #6
            The only problem I see with using THIS forum as a place to air complaints about prop suppliers is the fact that this forum is sponsored by those very same companies.

            Scroll to the top or bottom of this page and 9 times out of 10 you're gonna find a banner ad for a prop company. Those people pay good money to advertise here. That's money that helps keep this forum up and running.

            Why should Larry allow this forum to turn into a place that is openly-hostile to the very companies that sponsor it?

            How long would the HAUNTWORLD forum last without the financial support of those prop companies?

            I agree that someone should start a no-ads, non-biased website where people would be free to openly review prop companies, haunts, etc.

            This forum just isn't it.
            Guerilla Haunter

            Comment


            • #7
              So if a haunt took admission money then turned off the lights and locked the doors...nobody should complain or say anything?
              "Just quietly walk away..please."
              Anybody ever tried this? Does it work pretty good?
              Sure.
              Anybody ever have hired help who was really trying to be "Hired Helpless"?
              Findind a dark corner to hide in and remain quietly hidden til it's paycheck time? Kind of frustrating........
              When currentcy changes hands there are reasonable expectations to be met.

              I have sold tickets, then turned off all my outside lights and put my voice outside saying, "Sorry, we're closed!" Lots of FUN!
              Kinda sets the mood, let's them know I'm in charge! hahahaah!

              So do most of the prop-builder problems come from the unpredictability of demand for a new product?
              I like to think we are all doing the best that we can the majority of the time, whether a prop -builder or a haunt owner.
              These business are more difficult than many realise.
              hauntedravensgrin.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok how about praising the good guys!!

                The flip side is that there are honest and good suppliers out there who are getting passed over because of others.

                The majority I beleive are good but the bad ones hurt them all.

                The 'complained about supplier' also may have just been experiencing a short-term problem and could use it to their advantage to resolve it and let people know that its fixed.
                :idea:

                service, quality, originality, price, - I assume that even a supplier who might not have the best rep for service (as long as they are not a complete theif) could at least get recognition in one area! :shock:

                I don't believe that anyone would want to do bad business when they have a good product. The sad thing is the person who I won't name had what looked like really great products. I wouldn't have cared if he said he was having problems and gave me options. I am a reasonable person. I know crap happens. What I value more than anything is a long-term bigger picture relationship.

                Not a one off smash and grab - take the money and run.

                It is the same with my customers - I want then to tell their friends and keep coming back and then they tell two people and so on....

                I don't take chances anymore. This is my primary reason for thinking of going to Transworld to see venders in person because I have cut down buying and restricted who I buy from to a very short list. Mostly from Germany this year. This also means I am probably missing out on some really good stuff.

                The suppliers could really benefit from this. Before I bought a new sound-system I read the reveiws and then made my choice.

                These guys would benefit and so would any other larger ones who do business with transparency.

                The supplier I mentioned (tombstones) is not one of the ad sponsers - they no longer operate -they just made some great prototypes and then took people's money for 8 months before they shut their doors for good.

                I would much rather have a supplier say "Sorry we can't do your order until xxxx because we are fully booked". I had one company offer me a 10% discount for just that reason - "we can't do for this year but if you buy now for next year.....".

                Now a supplier like that I love. Maybe cause I get everything shipped in but I want to know the lead time.

                No one has a perfect business. Just looking for honesty!

                Comment


                • #9
                  so you guys think thats bad?im still waiting on a prop i ordered from haunted classified.paid for in august.this fool emails me everyday askin did you send the money yet over n over then after he cashes check he turns into a ghost.i still cant get a response from the company.i guess he thinks if he hides long enough i will forget about my thousands of dollars

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    so how does one go about avoiding/staying on top of the problems that you guys speak of?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jason
                      so how does one go about avoiding/staying on top of the problems that you guys speak of?
                      Cash and Carry, I have never bought a large prop, just the small stuff. I have never had a problem with any vendor on the small stuff. When the time comes to get some larger props, it will be cash and carry. Head to the trade shows buy it and load it up and take it home.
                      Giving People The Chills Since 2005

                      http://www.warehouse31.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bring a couple extra sled dogs incase the item is real heavy.
                        hauntedravensgrin.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have you read the hand luggage restrictions for getting stuff on an airplane?

                          I've started doing 'legal contracts' and restrict who I do business with. When I pay up - it is almost double because I also get stung for massive shipping charges and tend to buy in quantity.

                          Sadly it also means I can't offer my clients or myself some of the really
                          good stuff because it is too risky.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know a rating/review system has been talked about before, but as far as I can see there doesn't seem to be anything out there.

                            I understand that doing it here would make it tricky with Larry and the advertisers, so maybe if there was a separate site or forum away from hauntworld.

                            Ebay has its positive/negative ratings, download.com has its star system, rottentomato has the fresh/rotten system, we should be able to come up with something that will work.

                            Being fairly new to the world of high end haunt merchandise, I personally would love a place like that.
                            Heartstoppers
                            Haunted House

                            Sacramento, CA

                            www.scaredyou.com

                            www.fb.com/heartstoppers
                            www.twitter.com/heartstoppershh

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This happening over and over should spell opportunity to some vendors. Like the cash and carry advice, the product you buy is already made and in stock, not we'll make you one if your check clears. As long as buyers put up with the risk there will be abuse. There is abuse in any industry like roofers getting a deposit for materials and then taking off to the next town and repeating this over and over.

                              I have bought things said to be in stock and come to find out it is not really yet. So easy to make a prototype that took 200 hours and figure repros can be done in 20 hours, it isn't the same attention to detail.

                              Unfortunately any good restaurant chef goes to the market at 5 AM and hand picks what he will be cooking at 5PM. A good carpenter goes and picks out the wood. A good buyer should do the same or expect to be disappointed with a delivery. Real quality must be nurtured and demands kept with in reason and the sale price would stay up. As long as customers are willing to accept knock offs and make desposits all the griping in the world will not solve the problem infact it will ready the would be start up to prepare for an exit strategy and taking everyone's money when they go.

                              I know if I ever get to the point of buying things that cost thousands of dollars, I will take my truck thousands of miles to get it myself, even scout out the place to begin with or not take the risk. Just knowing how things are handled in shipping justifies this to me. If I was going to sell something I would expect to deliver it as well to make sure I get my money. What I would sell would be in front of me describeable as to it's condition and quality or I would not sell it. Just the situation of selling something not in hand is a flim flam, promising an intangeble. What are the odds the end buyer will be happy if he has been promised something specific that does not exist?

                              Perhaps some vendors have earned the right to operate this way but on the same token, they already know who their good customers are as well. Just buying a space at a convention does not mean they are well backed, it is the nature of a trade shows intended false credability. To create an opportunity. If the buyer does not know, they may learn the hard way. Or be pleasantly surprised.

                              If you are dealing with or expecting high quality a certain amount of investment beyond paying for something is required. If you want to deal in mass produced crap, the price should be lower and possible losses are relative to that lower price. If the buyer wants low prices and are disappointed when the product isn't Hollywood one of a kind delivered overnight, they are a bad customer and having a forum for bad customers does what? Waste bandwidth.

                              If you are importing, unfortunately you need a trusted man where the products are to pick and ship (or do the leg work yourself not in the vitual world) or what you conside a convienence that is going to make you rich will not unless you are volume volume volume.

                              I guess the summation is maybe there is a problem with the customers? The would be vendors have made the mistake of not pre qualifying their customers, not having the item already made and a warning sign is the would be vendor getting crappy when buying. A bad customer will push on beyond these warning signs, make a deposit and hope and bitch until something is delivered. Crappy customers make new vendors just make what ever to get them to go away. Ultimately they don't end up liking the business they have begun.

                              The new customers are also trying to be somebody maybe they aren't and promising to make payment but, have over extended themselves. To combat this things like Transworld making sure every Buyer had a history of buying $5,000 per year in products was to help vendors. The industry rebelled and it was discovered few if anyone does this volume of business or wants to or ever expects to as far as haunted house props go.

                              I would expect every level of prop has its buyer. A $12,000 prop might sell 3 or 5 per year (I don't really know) and these can properly be made in so many months but, most are wanting at most 40 clown masks at $20 each and is there a discount? I'll bet you have never heard a vendor of clown masks say we aren't accepting anymore orders or looking to take on any more customers.

                              I'll venture a guess that if this is a 300 million dollar market this haunted house thing and there are 3,000 to 5,000 events out there, that could mean each house averages 60,000 to 100,000 in ticket sales tops right now per year. Actual prop purchases are not necessarily every year but probably average maybe $3,000 per event tops among a wide variety of products from masks costumes lighting special effects and latex things.

                              The other commonality seems to be that the supposed bad vendor that no one else has ever heard of has taken thousands of someone's money when by statistics it might be a hundred or so. As a buyer not forced to have minimum purchases, if you are infact spending thousands, spend it divided among many vendors rather than one and some higher percentage of goods will reach a satisfactory conclusion. Or be prepared to do the leg work to get your prized possesion.

                              No amount of talk will solve these deficient aspects of a realtively low level industry. Bad unqualified customers make even good vendors look bad if given the power to do so.
                              sigpic

                              Another fabulous post from the U.S.Department of Wild Imaginings, now in spectaclar stereo, sponsored by the Adhesives and Sealants Council, suggesting ways to stick things together since the 1800s. Not fabulous in a gay way. Your results may vary. Illinois residents add 8% sales tax. These posts have been made by professional post makers, do not try this type of posting on your own without extensive training, lovely assistants and a trusty clown horn.

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