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  • Allan

    I would like to know too. I seen this thread as a poll on who was Christians many believe in God but do not attend worship which is what we as Christians are commanded to do. I never seen where the person that started this thread asked who did not believe in God so I will ruffle some feathers here and say if your not a practicing Christian then jump in on this topic maybe we can help change that. If your an Atheist then go start a poll asking who does not believe in God and I assure you it will not hardly have any post at all. Shane and it's I got a box of bananas if ya need them! Shane this time.

    Jesus Loves Me This I Know For The BIBLE Tells Me So!
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    • really ..i mean really

      sooo ok brother kip...
      lets talk religion..
      now understand i am not an uneducated man who will tolerate your accusations as to my beliefs...
      you said you enjoyed having a respectful discussion...
      and thats me brother....
      so act like it...
      because thats all i am here to do...
      do not accuse me of not having faith....as obvious as you my THINK it is...

      we are haunters....this is a haunters forum..
      hence my involvement here.....
      we are discussing an important issue...
      soo act like it....
      this is an opportunity for you to rise up and be a christian..

      is haunting the glorification of evil...
      hmmmmm...
      would jesus do it????....
      would God say..we need more maggots over here..
      the satan needs bigger horns up there..
      and wheres my serial killers...i need some serial killers over here...
      now
      i am not gonna answer ..
      but its somethin to ask yourself...
      is it not something of this world to make entertainment out of bad and evil things..??
      i will tell you i personally know some religious scholars who think it is hypocrisy and heresy for a true christian to do this......
      i know its fun..
      i know its not real..
      i know you have no issues with doing it....
      but you say other haunts glorify evil...
      really...but yours doesnt..???
      in any way...???
      no knifes in the head..
      no huge slayer sittin up there..
      no bloody actors..

      lets talk heresy...
      now according to your definition it is to openly defy the bibles authority...
      because as christians we should be the living word...
      do we do this ???
      i guess we must ask ourselves some important questions..
      and be willing to accept the conclusions....

      soo lets get out our bibles..
      thats where the answers are..
      the bible is infallible and is a guide to the christian life..which is living the word of the gospel....

      but before we begin kip
      first thing that comes to my mind is..
      your definition of christianity is accepting that the world and everything in it is broken..we broke it..and only god can fix it..wtf..
      soo where in the bible does it say that..??
      or are you a new world prophet ?
      makes me think of a verse..
      mathew 15:14 if the blind lead the blind then they both fall into the ditch..
      and also
      proverb 14:12 the ways of men seem right but are the way of death..

      second..
      lets talk about glorifying evil...'
      your definition is that it is glorifying if people want to be a part of it..
      or want to do it...
      .reminds me of being taught to glorify god..
      which is what a true christian should always be doing ...glorifying God in all things..
      lets find some examples shall we...
      1st pet 4: 7-11 the end is near.have charity and hospitality without grudge + minister as a good steward that god in all things be glorified...
      Phillipians 2:13 let god worketh in you to do his good pleasure
      colossians 1:10 be fruitful in every work
      hebrews 13:21 make perfect in every good work..to do his will which is
      pleasing in his sight..through jesus be the glory for ever
      john 3:21 doeth truth that his deeds my be made manefest.
      ecclesrates 12:14 for god shall bring every work into judgment..every
      secret thing ...good or evil
      psalms 119: thou puttest away all evil of earth
      2 tim 4:5 watch thou in all things.make full proof of the ministry..
      john 3:20 pleasure in gods sight
      john 8:14 do the deeds of your father

      1 corrinthians 10:31 whatever you do..do all in the glory of the lord give no
      offense..
      Titus 1:16 though they profess that they know god..their works deny him...

      sooo anyways.
      if your not following the words of the book then heresy comes back up according to your own definitions...

      i think God made it pretty clear that he wants christians to talk the talk and walk the walk...
      and if we as haunters arent glorifying god in all we do..then we are not doing what he asked of us...

      brother kip...you said you like theological discussions..
      me too..
      i implore you...to use this opportunity to rise up and justify your views to me..and GLORIFY GOD..
      for
      To be labeled “Christian” is to be “Christ like” and to conduct ourselves in the manner that He would, that our Father may be Glorified. Even in the manner of prayer, we should seek NOT ONLY for the fulfillment of the need, but SEEK that through it ALL, God would be glorified, as the Lord himself declared in His word: “And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the FATHER may be GLORIFIED in the SON” (John 14:13).



      Thus, let us not shriek in terror nor cower in fear when faced with tremendous obstacles, like a few questions from the bad ass...
      but rather declare with BOLDNESS and FAITH the word of the Lord and REJOICE for God shall be Glorified through it all!



      Let us not run from great challenges or the testing of our faith, but rather run to them with the full expectation of seeing the Glory of the Lord. When persecuted and shamefully treated, REJOICE and be GLAD! Glorify God in it all!



      You may say, “how can I possibly be glad in the midst of sorrow?”

      let me tell ya something brothers and sisters...i know sorrow...

      YOU SHOULD BE Glad for he has ALREADY DECLARED the outcome being victorious for you, IF you BELIEVE. For His word says that many are the afflictions of the righteous….. now, if it ended here we would probably have cause for sorrow but it goes on to say, but the LORD SHALL DELIVER HIM FROM THEM ALL! Not that He would deliver them from “a few”, or maybe “one”, but HE SHALL DELIVER HIM FROM THEM ALL!!



      As it is written: “If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for The Spirit of Glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is GLORIFIED. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters. Yet if any man suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him GLORIFY GOD ON THIS BEHALF.....” (1st Pet 4:14-16)


      and again “Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. REJOICE ye in that day, and LEAP FOR JOY; for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets....” (Luke 6:22-23)






      In our actions, in our speech, in our behavior one towards another, in our work, in our preaching the word and sharing the gospel, in our giving, in our receiving, in our gladness and in our sorrow, in our sufferings, and in our tribulations, friends in ALL WE DO, let us seek ALWAYS to “GLORIFY GOD IN ALL THINGS.....”

      sooo tell me kip..
      how does having evil , and scary images for mans entertainment..glorify god and not the devil....??

      sounds worldly to me..
      trust me..
      i am NOT casting stones...
      like i said before we are in this boat together...

      but if we arent serving gods will..and glorifying god...then arent we all heretics ..doing what is accepted in this world and what we as humans justify ...
      but
      not what God asked of us....


      i am off my soap box and
      this is my last post on this subject...

      next time..
      lets talk about abominations....
      now thats where the bible really gets interesting...

      peace
      in order to see the orchestra ...you must turn your back on the crowd...



      www.HAUNTEDHOOCHIE.COM
      www.DEADACRES.COM

      Comment


      • Look guys, I started this threat OVER A YEAR AGO and it is STILL GOING ON! We all agreed on putting this thread to rest! Please quit bringing it back! I SHOULD NOT HAVE STARTED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE! WE ALL BELIEVE DIFFERENT THINGS BUT WE ALL HAVE THE SAME INTEREST AND THATS HAUNTING! We get to choose what we believe and should NOT be hated over it! I've realized that, now can't everyone else?
        INSANITY SCREAM PARK

        Comment


        • Badass,

          First and foremost...if I offended you by suggesting that you didn't share my faith I apologize. Your comments seemed to support that, but I assumed and I shouldn't have. That being said...

          Excellent questions and I'd like to try to answer them as best I can...knowing full well we may NEVER see eye to eye and that's fine. Again, not my goal to force you to see things as I do but to merely show why I believe what I do and let you decide. (Quoting the Joker) Here..we..go!

          "but before we begin kip
          first thing that comes to my mind is..
          your definition of christianity is accepting that the world and everything in it is broken..we broke it..and only god can fix it..wtf..
          soo where in the bible does it say that..??"

          Okay...first that the world and everything in it is broken.

          Genesis 3 details original sin...when the serpent deceived Adam and Eve and they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This is the fall. The fall is detailed in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. God details exactly what the fall entails including turmoil, strife, and eventually death. It was at that moment that perfect creation, the Garden, was disrupted and sin entered the world. Before the fall, God literally walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve. Once the fall occured, things changed. Sin is what seperates us from God. He is holy...and after the fall we lost our righteousness and therefore were seperated from God. The fall is the "breaking" of the world and everything in it.

          Second...we broke it.

          Again to Genesis 3, it was Adam and Eve's disobedience that resulted in the fall. They directly opposed God's will and in doing so brought sin into the world. There has never existed a human being since then (save Christ) who didn't sin. Romans 3:23 says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Our sin seperates us from God. Through original sin, we caused the fall, and we have all participated in it since then. Original sin is us breaking it.

          Third...only God can fix it.

          Back to Romans. If we expand a bit on the previous passage and look at Romans 3:22-25a it says "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood." The idea here is that we will remain forever seperated from God unless we can atone for our sins. This is a task we simply cannot complete, however. Isaiah 64:6 says "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." Not only that, but Galatians 2:16 says "yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." Christ was the perfect sacrifice that was necessary for our salvation and our atonement. Christians believe that when Christ died on the cross he literally took all our sin upon himself (2 Corinthians 5:21 "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.") and that now, through Chirst, we are justified before God. Thus, only God can fix the brokenness of us and this world. Revelation talks about a "new heaven and a new earth" and that is literally a reference to the day that Christ will return and restore this world and all creation once and for all.

          You also said that we as Christians should be the Word...and I agree. No arguments there. Are we perfect at it? Far from it. Although we are saved, we are not yet justified (not until Christ's return) so we are still broken people, we simply know our brokeness has been atoned for. So yeah, we screw it up all the time. The point is not for you to look to me or any other Christian and say "Wow, what a holy man/woman. I want to follow God because of their holiness." The point is to see me, a sinner like any other, who has been saved by grace and even though I am not perfect and never will be on my own God accepts me and loves me and has prepared a place for me. You should look at me and not see my awesomeness (because there isn't any to see) but rather the awesomeness of God. His love is not reserved for the perfect...if it were he would have no person to love.

          You said God has made it clear that we need to walk the walk and talk the talk...that's true. God expects us to be Christ to a world that needs Him. However, if we go back to this idea that that means I must be perfect I am always going to fail. Don't let me fool you into thinking I believe myself to be the "perfect Christian". I struggle everyday and always will. We all will. Now, if the comment is more to say that haunting is of the world and not "walking the walk" then that's a different discussion. You say some scholars agree...that's fine. Some disagree. I have prayed on this often and, as a Christian, I listen for the Spirit to guide me in all things. God's Spirit (the third in the trinity) is a gift to all Christians as a sort-of "new moral compass"...an active force within us that shows us God's will for our lives. I don't have issue with what I do, and I trust that judgement. I think that for others, it may not be right and that's fine too. I know that God has blessed me with the talents I possess and he has given me amazing oppurtunities to expand on them. He has also given me numerous oppurtunities to speak with those outside the church (within the haunt community) that might otherwise be ignored by "mainstream Christianity". I try to run my business in a Chrisitian way. You see...this idea that we must be in a Christian business to be Christians in business is flawed. We are Christians in all we do. Farming isn't a spiritual endeavor, but a farmer can be a Christian in business. Arguably what I do is differen than farming and much closer to a gray area. I accept that everyone in the Christian community will not agree with me on my job choice and I don't begrudge them that. Chrisitians get way too tied up in details of the faith and lose the big picture. We can disagree on the age of the earth, on the exact meaning of Revelation, or on the religious implications of haunting and still all be brothers and sisters in Christ. So when it comes to whether or not haunting is good for Christians...I don't see a problem but I respect you if you do. The same goes with alcohol, tatoos, and any number of other trivial issues that should not get in the way of the Gospel. The world is broken, we broke it, and only God can fix it.

          One final note...you mentioned abominations which is a conversation I have had too many times to remember. I'd be happy to have that conversation again, but remember that what you're refering to is old testament law and Christ is the New Covenant...a new law. He said that he came, not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it in the sermon on the mount. (Matthew 5) There is always a lot of discussion about what that actually means, but in a nutshell Christ gave us a new way order of things. The old law was that if we did these certain things in this certain order and sacrifice animals for our sins, we can atone. The problem is, nobody can actually follow the law...we're broken. Christ showed us a different way. Have faith in Him, and we will follow the law by default. The law can really be summed up as "Love God first, and people second" That's it! If you love God, you won't disobey Him. If you love people, you won't steal from them, lie to them, etc. As for the "don't eat shellfish" or "don't wear polyester" stuff that people always grab from Leviticus, know that these were not commands given because these things are sinful in god's eyes, but commands given to the people at that time for their own good. We have to look at God's nature to see what the true purpose of the command is. Although the law is still important and very much applicable to our lives, the parts of it that were...for lack of a better term...safety, hygene, or customs related...are no longer relevant to our lives. Those that speak to the nature of God definitely are. An easy way to differentiate is to look at new testament scripture. If the new testament backs up the law (don't murder, don't steal, etc.) then it's law that still applies under the new covenant.

          I'm interested to see what you have to say. This is exactly the kind of discussion I like. Till next time...
          Kip Polley
          www.palenight.com

          Pale Night Productions
          We Engineer Fear

          Comment


          • Thank God..

            2 corinthians 11:3 i am afraid that just as eve was deceived by the
            serpents cunning..your minds may be led astray from
            your sincere devotion to christ


            well we finally got here...
            i am elated..
            see imagery and symbolism is very important isnt it Kip..
            especially when we are talking about religion and haunted houses.....
            it doesnt really matter if we are pretending...

            imagery...
            its all very very important..


            the snake wrecked it all....
            we had it made in the shade..
            here we are in charge of all the animals in the world..
            and we were tricked by an animal..a little snake...
            we sure are gullible...


            since i know you a lil better now...
            i know you understand what i mean..
            but you should still explain all the imagery used in this story..
            to complete all this..and recap..
            and you get the very last word too..


            we are made in the likeness of God....
            but yet soo easily led astray from what God had asked us not to do...



            it has been fun kip...
            in order to see the orchestra ...you must turn your back on the crowd...



            www.HAUNTEDHOOCHIE.COM
            www.DEADACRES.COM

            Comment


            • It has been fun!

              I don't think the story in Genesis is imagery...I think it happened as it is written. I could be wrong on that and it wouldn't shake my faith if I was, but that's my belief anyway. If you want to consider it as imagery, I think the story still stands firmly on it's own. If we boil it down, God commanded us to not obtain knowledge of good and evil. We decided that we wanted it anyway. We disobeyed God and the fall of creation was the result. I have heard people debate whether the serpent was real or simply a physical manifestation of an internal monogue with herself to help the reader better understand her thought process that led to the fall. You could easily see her having that conversation with herself...and maybe she did...I just choose to believe that the story happened as it is written.

              As for us being made in the image of God...we were. And, we were easily swayed into sinning against God and screwing everything up. How did that happen? Well...a couple things to look at.

              1. We were made in god's image...but we were not his equal. We did not possess the knowledge of good and evil. In other words, we didn't know such things as good and evil existed...we only knew good as God is only good.

              2. We were given free will. God could have made "worshiping robots" if he wanted to, but he chose to give us the ability to make our own choices. (Right off, to those Non-Chrisitans, this will seem like a terrible idea. Like God should have known better. Like he shoudl have seen this coming. I have a lot of thoughts on that, and the scriptures speak a lot about it too, but it is really deep theology I don't want to delve into right now.)

              3. We weren't deceived in a direct way by the serpent. No, instead, he appealed to that part of our nature which is most dangerous and so easily manipulated...our pride. Not to go off course here, but pride was what caused an angel who daily stood in the presence of God to think he could overpower God and take control of Heaven (Lucifer, or the devil). Pride is a very dangerous sin. Anyway, back to the serpent. He starts by asking an over-generalizing question to get the ball rolling in his favor. He asks, "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?" Well, God didn't say that...and Eve says so. But the foundation is being laid here to get Eve to question things that God did say. The serpent then says "You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." And with that (and it porbably was a longer conversation than 3 sentences but this is what we actually have detailed for us) Eve was misled. Her pride was appealed to. She thought, "I can be like God." and the same sin that caused Satan and 1/3 of the angels in Heaven to rise up against God caused one woman to defy God and, as a result, brought all of creation down with her.

              Now you may think that seems hard to believe. I mean, she stood in the presence of God...the PHYSICAL presence of God every day, how could she go against His wishes? Think about this, Peter, one of Christ's most beloved apostles, the one whose confession Christ called the rock on which he would build the church, denied Christ three times in one night as Christ was being hauled off to his eventual crucifixtion. Peter stood in the presenc of Christ everyday. He saw him prefrom miracles. He knew who Christ was, and yet he sinned against him. People can be...and often are...very weak.

              Thanks for the discussion. I tried to justify my beliefs as best I could. I'm not a world famous Bible scholar, just another man trying to do what I know is right and trying to show others Christ through me.
              Kip Polley
              www.palenight.com

              Pale Night Productions
              We Engineer Fear

              Comment


              • Way to go Kip great to read your posts!

                DA

                Comment


                • its all sooo simple

                  Brother
                  know this..
                  i am on your side in all things..

                  but you do have a way of missing the point..
                  and i was relying on you..
                  this discussion..like everything God has planned for us...
                  has a point...
                  a point why i even replied to this thread in the first place....
                  and i was counting on you to carry it through..
                  and there is still time to do so..or not

                  ahhh the Glory of choice
                  thats what makes a man a man...
                  bees must make honey they have no choice..
                  there is no godliness in that...
                  no sir..
                  we have a choice
                  because thou (mayest) rule over sin
                  they or should i say we ..
                  were like children
                  and like all children..
                  wanted to grow up..
                  to escape what was seen as a meaningless and onerous restrictions..
                  having no idea what that really meant...
                  they simply exercised free choice which God had given them..
                  they did what we sooooooo often do..
                  misused and wrongly desired what was inappropriate
                  in the eyes of the Lord..

                  simple as that

                  anyways..
                  call me anytime..

                  Isaiah 57 No Rest for the Wicked


                  so i must get back to working on the Worlds Most Extreme Haunted House
                  in order to see the orchestra ...you must turn your back on the crowd...



                  www.HAUNTEDHOOCHIE.COM
                  www.DEADACRES.COM

                  Comment


                  • For the record

                    Voted 'no' as I am fairly certain the world is not flat.

                    Cheers.

                    Comment


                    • Proud Christian
                      Hauntus Emeritus
                      Founding Board Member I.A.H.A.
                      Author "The Complete Haunted House Book"

                      We'll make your house everything you've ever HAUNTED!

                      Comment


                      • Rippersrevenge, I'm a bit confused about the world is flat comment... Are you saying that the belief that the world was flat was strictly a Christian belief and that it is tied into our set of beliefs? The two have no relation at all FYI...

                        DA
                        Last edited by Darkangel; 07-01-2010, 12:22 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Ripper...

                          The Bible never refers to the earth being flat. Quite to the contrary actually.

                          Where did you get your info?

                          Tom.
                          www.HauntedOverload.com

                          Comment


                          • An observation on the responses to the ripper flat remark.

                            Sounds allusive to Christians having a narrow scope of vision or worldview; a jab in the eye of those that chose yes. Not to be taken literally.

                            Cheers, is the smirk, shit eating grin, after the jab.

                            Comment


                            • the curved parts are not flat but the flat parts are.
                              hauntedravensgrin.com

                              Comment


                              • Myself and my partners for Haunted Ozarks all go to the same church and while I'm not nearly as outspoken about my Christianity as I probably should be, I do try to live my life with moral principles as close to the Bible as I can. I am pretty opinionated on certain things which my wife hates because I was raised in a liberal household and taught to respect all religions and lifestyles. By running a haunt, I hope to create a safe fun place for kids of all ages to have a good time.
                                http://www.hauntedozarks.com

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