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Thread: I've Finally Had Enough

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  1. Default I've Finally Had Enough 
    #1
    Join Date
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    Illinois
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    Are Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com really about helping the Industry or is the management of each site really only concerned about their own pocketbooks? Iíve been silent about this for long enough, but now I must speak out. I just want to let everyone know that I have been personally blackballed from obtaining paid advertising on both sites.

    Larry K. said on behalf of HauntedHouseOnline.com (a site owned by Hauntworld.com): ďI will not sell you a featured banner. Its nothing personal but I have a directory and I don't want to send people to another directory. Hopefully you understand. If you want to buy a featured banner then you'll need to trade banners with scarefest.(a haunt outside of Illinois, thus outside of the scope of HauntedIllinois.comís directory) Ē. Sorry Larry, I wonít be blackmailed in such a way. My website promotes Illinois Haunts. Move your Haunt across the state line and weíll talk!

    In a telephone conversation with one of the owners of HauntedHouse.com, I was told that I would no longer be able to retain my paid ad in the Illinois section of their directory because I am considered ďcompetitionĒ by the ownership of the website.

    Since when did I become a threat?!? I promote Haunted Houses, for Christís sake!!!! How is that a bad thing?!?!

    If youíll excuse my anger and general negative attitude, this is total bull crap. Every season I bust my butt to help the industry. Over the past seven years, I have spent countless hours creating the most comprehensive online directory of Illinois Haunted Attractions that exists ANYWHERE. And it isnít just a directory that just lets the event listings roll over every year, so it appears to be bigger than everyone elses. I also drive thousands of miles every season to review Haunts in Illinois, at my own expense, just so the general public is more informed.

    I usually donít throw stones, but Iíve finally had enough. Why have I been banned from advertising on these sites? Who is here to help the Industry and who is here to line their own pockets or pat their own egos?

    I know what side I am on. I love going to Haunted Houses and I will continue to promote Illinois Haunts, regardless of who blackballs me from their sites, feeling that I may steal valuable traffic from their website. Iím all about promoting Haunts and will always be. Screw profits. I donít have any. I donít have an expense account. I go to Haunt conventions and drive to review Haunts out of my own pocket. I do what I do for the love of Haunts and no other reason! I just think itís really unfair that I am not allowed to advertise on these ďbig-timeĒ sites because the management seems to look at me as a threat for some odd reason. Go figure!
    Happy Haunting,

    Adam Drendel
    Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

    Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213
     

  2. Default  
    #2
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    St. Louis, MO
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    Adam,

    I have to admit you're acting like a total baby on this matter...

    I guess HauntedHouse.com recently informed you that you couldn't advertise and this set you off...BIG DEAL MAN!

    I told like a year ago you couldn't advertise on my site and for GOOD REASON... YOU ARE NOT A HAUNTED HOUSE!

    Our directory is for people who own haunted houses NOT people who own and operate their own paid directory.

    You talk about doing it for the love, then don't charge people for featured ads on your website. I'm NOT going to direct people who come to my website to your website, c'mon now! Get real!

    Let me tell you something Adam, I've tried to reason with you for years, about my haunted houses should be listed on your site. You WILL NOT allow us to list on your site...why?

    St. Louis is yeah a city with about 300,000 people in it...but the St. Louis metro area is about 2.8 million people and about 1 million of those people come from an area refered to as SOUTHERN ILLINOIS! Your GOVENOR comes to St. Louis often beacuse he has to get ON ST. LOUIS TV, PRINT AND RADIO to reach those 1 million people from your state.

    Last night we have the braggin rights game Missouri vs. Illinois which every year is held at our arena, half Mo fans and Ill fans. Your second biggest college SIUE and SIUC is in our market. SIUC the second biggest basketball program is in the MISSOURI VALLY CONFERENCE and they play their league tourny in ST. LOUIS!!!

    Anyway I've tried to relay this message to you for years, that you're not serving your visitors well, when they can't find haunts closest to them...IE Southern Ill would be looking for haunts in Southern ILL/St. Louis.

    At any rate your rules forbid any haunts that are not located in YOUR state...okay. Fine...I don't agree but fine!

    Those are YOUR rules, its your website...

    So now you want to whine and moan because two website won't let you advertise, and link to your paid listing website?

    Somehow it sounds unfair to you that you can have your rules, but other website can't have their rules?

    Tell me how this seems unfair to you?

    Larry
     

  3. Default  
    #3
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    Adam,

    Lastly, you may notice on our website it states our policy and this has been up since day one...no blackmail involved. Just our policy! I will paste it for you...again we have our rules and you have yours. Sorry but we will not allow your advertisement, just as we wouldn't allow one from hauntedhouse.com or anyone else.

    We've worked very hard and spent a lot of money to get into the position we are in right now. We do help the industry every single year with free listings, free information, free articles, links and more. I don't know what else I can do or more I can do than I already do...

    You charge for listings on your site, good for you...but you can't pay us a couple hundred bucks and expect us to send you all of our ILL traffic it doesn't work that way.

    People in your state are paying us to send THEM traffic not your website ... which just gives them even more options. We're being PAID to help a specific haunt and steer what we can do them directly.

    How you think we're blackballing or whatever you is OUTRAGOUS!

    Stated below is our policy on the website...

    If I own my own haunted house search website can I purchase a featured listing?
    Good question and the answer is NO! If your site is NOT a haunted house you CAN NOT purchase a listing. All featured banners are reserved for haunted house owners ONLY. You may attempt to purchase one but your purchase will be declined. If we do allow you to purchase a featured link it will be no higher than the fifth link and only with permission prior to purchase.


    Again we have OUR OWN RULES ADAM as DO YOU...so stop crying about it! Outside of that you do a good job for your state, so good for you! I hope you do everything you can now and into the future to continue to help the haunts in your state any and every way you possible can!

    Larry
     

  4. Default  
    #4
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    Aug 2003
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    St. Louis, MO
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    Adam,

    You're more than welcome to advertise in Hauntworld Magazine, as is HauntedHouse.com or anyone else for that matter including Hauntcon, which they have already, or anyone else for that matter.

    We dont' blackball advertisers no matter if they're our competition or not...I will let Leonard Pickel buy every ad in the whole magazine if he so wishes!!! If HauntedHouse.com wants to buy an ad and proclaim they're the best way to find haunts, they're free to do so!

    But OUR HAUNTED HOUSE DIRECTORY IS JUST THAT... a Haunted House Directory! Your website is not a haunted house, your website is a paid listing for haunted houses, and an online store.

    I will NOT allow Scarefactory to put a banner in the haunted house directory, Transworld, or anyone who's NOT a haunted house.

    Why you think thats blackballing I do not know...personally I think you should let the steam of HauntedHouse.com knocking off your ad cool off and rethink what your post. When you've cooled off you'll realize what you're saying is nothing more than sour milk and you just might retract your statements.

    Would Google put a link to MSN's search engine on their front page?

    Duh...LOL

    Larry

    PS: Just be happy that Illinois beat Missouri tonight and leave it at that!
     

  5. Default  
    #5
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    St. Louis, MO
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    Since we're on the subject...

    How many times have we seen say Rotting Flesh Radio get onto our message boards and promote something on their site? How many times have we seen people get on here and say "Haunted Attraction Magazine is better than Hauntworld Magazine'. But I do not erase the posts. How many times have we seen people promote their new product, when they could be promoting in our magazine or paying us? How many times have we seen other people who start a haunted house website like 'MyHaunt' or whatever that was called get on these forums and promote their own website.

    Heck remember that one guy who was suppose to be the new voice of the industry...Leonard Pickel erased ALL OF HIS posts and promotions on Haunted Attraction, but I never once erased his posts. So what he starts a website and thinks its the next best thing. I don't care.

    Whatever helps the industry. These message boards are for peoples knowledge, be it RFR to promote themselves, or HauntedHouse.com for example to promote something they're doing, or even Hauntcon. I could care less if I like them don't like them.

    I think I've tried really hard to stand by this policy for the past 10 years! I think what RFR is doing is great and fun, I think that myhaunt website was a lot of work and pretty cool thing, and the list goes on. Let them promote until their heart turns to dust!

    Sometimes its very hard to watch, and yes I do have a limit. Jim O'Rear was a prime example, getting on here every single day to downgrade Hauntworld while promoting Halloween Nation. Yeah there was a limit and it was crossed and yeah I got sick of it...but even then I ignored it for atleast a month.

    Yes I am very opinionated, and some may not agree with them, but that doesn't stop you from having your opinion! I feel like this site is to help promote the whole industry like someone or not like someone.

    We've covered Hauntcon TWICE in our magazine! We have links to his magazine site in our yellow pages sections. What more can I say...the guy I can't stand the most and I still will print his press releases in our magazine, allow his advertisements, and links his magazine.

    It doesn't stop me as a single person with a single opinion to voice it...most people who come to this site don't even know we have anything to do with the site.

    But we do have limits and allowing NON Haunted houses spots on our directory is NOT serving the public or the haunts who pay for our listings.

    End of story!

    Outside of that I think we're very open to all!

    Larry
     

  6. Default  
    #6
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    Illinois
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    Quote Originally Posted by drfrightner
    Our directory is for people who own haunted houses NOT people who own and operate their own paid directory.
    If that is the case, why did you let me buy a featured banner in 2005, but this year you wouldnít?

    Quote Originally Posted by drfrightner
    You talk about doing it for the love, then don't charge people for featured ads on your website.
    Then you shouldn't charge people a penny either, if you love the Industry so much. I charge for a select few featured ads to try and cover my expenses of going to conventions and driving thousands of miles to review haunts each year. Unfortunately, I still end up in the red at the end of the year. I don't make a cent.

    Quote Originally Posted by drfrightner
    Let me tell you something Adam, I've tried to reason with you for years, about my haunted houses should be listed on your site. You WILL NOT allow us to list on your site...why?
    You arenít in Illinois, Larry. Duh! Look at a map. I must draw the line somewhere and that must be at the state line.

    Quote Originally Posted by drfrightner
    So now you want to whine and moan because two website won't let you advertise, and link to your paid listing website?

    Somehow it sounds unfair to you that you can have your rules, but other website can't have their rules?

    Tell me how this seems unfair to you?
    Well.. First of all, you are wrong. I donít have a ďpaid listing websiteĒ. Only a few haunts pay for a featured listing. The rest of the Haunt listings (over 200 in Illinois) are completely FREE.

    Iíll tell you how it seems unfair. Both Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com let me purchase featured banners in 2005 and now they change their tune and wonít allow me to advertise.. somehow seeing me as some sort of threat.


    Quote Originally Posted by drfrightner
    Lastly, you may notice on our website it states our policy and this has been up since day one...no blackmail involved. Just our policy! I will paste it for you...again we have our rules and you have yours. Sorry but we will not allow your advertisement, just as we wouldn't allow one from hauntedhouse.com or anyone else.
    Well, youíre wrong again, Larry. You let me buy a Featured Banner in your Illinois section in 2005. So your policy has obviously changed since then (not in place since day one, as you put it!!!!).
    Happy Haunting,

    Adam Drendel
    Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

    Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213
     

  7. Default  
    #7
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    If that is the case, why did you let me buy a featured banner in 2005, but this year you wouldnít?


    Response: I allowed you to buy slot #5, when we first started out, and it was a mistake. That year I only sold like 30 slots, this past year I sold almost 300. My job isn't to send people to another website to get lost in even more listings, my job is to steer people to actual haunted houses. Period!



    Then you shouldn't charge people a penny either, if you love the Industry so much. I charge for a select few featured ads to try and cover my expenses of going to conventions and driving thousands of miles to review haunts each year. Unfortunately, I still end up in the red at the end of the year. I don't make a cent.

    RESPONSE: I'm sure you don't make a cent, but you still charge. You have a paid directory, and I'm not sending my visitors to another paid directory. What you don't understand about that is crazy.




    You arenít in Illinois, Larry. Duh! Look at a map. I must draw the line somewhere and that must be at the state line.

    RESPONSE: Again you have your rules, and even though I don't agree with them its your website. You have your rules so good for you, but what gives you the right to complain about other peoples rules? We have rules, you have rules, you have a website of paid haunts as do we...that is where it stays.



    Well.. First of all, you are wrong. I donít have a ďpaid listing websiteĒ. Only a few haunts pay for a featured listing. The rest of the Haunt listings (over 200 in Illinois) are completely FREE.

    Iíll tell you how it seems unfair. Both Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com let me purchase featured banners in 2005 and now they change their tune and wonít allow me to advertise.. somehow seeing me as some sort of threat.

    RESPONSE: Adam, I let you buy an ad the first year, and then changed my mind when you tried to renew just after October 2005. I told you this a YEAR AGO...so now you want to cry about it. I can tell YOU WHY I changed my mind Adam...

    Because your listing was taking traffic away from other people who paid for a listing who owned a haunted house. My customers on my ILL page got fewer hits from me thanks to my stupidity in allowing you an ad.

    I do not fear your website, or feel you're a threat by any means. At Transworld I will be doing a seminar on advanced internet marketing...EVERYONE needs to attend this seminar.

    I drove OVER 200,000 VISITORS to www.Scarefest.com last season...If I thought you where a threat I wouldn't want on your website, I know your site could help my haunt, as does HauntedHouse.com, Horrorfind.com and the list goes on. They all help! I'm not blackballing you, or trying to do that...that is crazy!

    Haunts need to finally wake up to the potential of the web and depending on what state they're on specifically yours they should buy an ad from you. As I stated before good luck to your website, but you're not a haunted house, hense can't buy a featured ad. Again what you don't understand about that is beside me!





    Well, youíre wrong again, Larry. You let me buy a Featured Banner in your Illinois section in 2005. So your policy has obviously changed since then (not in place since day one, as you put it!!!!).


    RESPONSE: Adam as I already stated I allowed it the first year, but the policy states that you can not do it unless we approve it. I allowed it the first year and realized I made a mistake, and informed you in November 2005 you could not place another ad beacuse you're not a haunted house.

    End of story!

    Are you a haunted house?

    Should another haunted house directory being allowed to place listings and ads amoung other haunted houses? Thats crazy!

    Larry
     

  8. Default  
    #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by drfrightner
    Should another haunted house directory being allowed to place listings and ads amoung other haunted houses?
    Absolutely! I have had a HauntWorld.com banner/link, along with a HauntedHouse.com banner/link at the bottom of my directory page since Iíve had the directory. I tell visitors of my site: ďClick on the banners above for National Haunt ListingsĒ

    Haunted Illinois Directory

    Why did I put your banners there for free all this time? Because I want to promote the Industry. If people canít find what they are looking for at my site, I send them to yours or HauntedHouse.com. That way, everyone wins. Again, I think the important thing is promoting Haunts. ...not which site gets more web traffic.
    Happy Haunting,

    Adam Drendel
    Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

    Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213
     

  9. Default  
    #9
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    Adam,
    Not to be rude, but according to your post you were told pretty much
    the same thing by two DIFFERENT Haunt directories (who don't usually
    even see eye to eye.)

    Both state they promote Haunted Houses, not other directories, correct?

    You stated:
    "Are Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com really about helping the Industry or is the management of each site really only concerned about their own pocketbooks?."

    I'm a little confused here? If they were only concerned about their pocketbooks wouldn't they BOTH have sold you banners????

    You also stated:
    "Over the past seven years, I have spent countless hours creating the most comprehensive online directory of Illinois Haunted Attractions that exists ANYWHERE... I'm all about promoting Haunts and will always be."

    I have seen your site and no one denies you do a good job. I have a friend that lives in Carbondale, Illinois. An Illinois Haunted Directory does him and countless other people in Southern Illinois any good as Decatur, Springfield are hours away, Chicago is almost a day's drive, yet St. Louis is 5 minutes across the river.

    People in the Quad cities may do more business in Iowa than in Illinois. It seems some people in Illinois would be better served if they knew about haunts across the street when that street is in another state as opposed to only in Illinois when it is across the state!

    You draw a line at the state border, people don't STOP at the state line. Yet you yell at Larry when he states you are NOT a Haunt?


    You seem to insinuate that these sites have a personal agenda. I don't see Hauntworld listed on HousedHouse.com? I don't see Hauntworld Magazine listed in Haunted Attraction Magazine? How is your situation different???
    R&J Productions
    Las Vegas, NV
    www.LasVegasHaunts.com
     

  10. Default  
    #10
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    Q: I'm a little confused here? If they were only concerned about their pocketbooks wouldn't they BOTH have sold you banners????

    A: NO. They have both expressed that they donít want to sell a banner to the ďcompetitionĒ. They claim that HauntedIlinois.com is taking away valuable web traffic (their words, not mine).

    Q: You seem to insinuate that these sites have a personal agenda. I don't see Hauntworld listed on HousedHouse.com? I don't see Hauntworld Magazine listed in Haunted Attraction Magazine? How is your situation different???

    A: Well, the situation is different because both sites sold me ads in 2005. Now they have suddenly banned me from advertising. Their recent decision to ban me from advertising on their sites is the issue. Had they not allowed me to advertise in the first place, then I would have no reason to complain.
    Happy Haunting,

    Adam Drendel
    Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

    Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213
     

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