Brainstorming Here-Need Help With Ideas...

[Jim Warfield]

Time for "The Education"

Any loose, hand-held item or item able to be made loose as in" from a display", will have to be sacrificed in the name of "The Show" (and it's cost subtracted from the profit ) because even customers who are sober and seem nice, responsible, carefull will still manage to move, drop, steal , ruin your items that fall into this catagory of accessibilty.
The answer lies with more solid fastening, thicker wood, screws versus nails, and steel, welded or bolted together and of course having items behind plexiglass or out of reach.
I use alot of thin steel cable, sort of hidden behind things to keep things where I want them to be. Don't use steel cable on your wife though, kind words are better.

[maliciousstudios]

LOL.... hell a few chains around thr wrists then, Its sure to do the trick....lol I dont know Ive seen the flashlights in action seemed to work nicely... no problems that I know of, Im a lover of older rustic fuel lanterns, I figured it would be the cats ass if someone would build a latern isert flicker bulbs - remotely controlled via sensors throughout the haunt that would cause the latern to flicker and go out.... hell some instead of the dimming effect of the laterns it could be dimmed or flicker more as you get closer with a sound effect of wind... Theres allot that can be done there. But yeah your prob. correct..... any loose object becomes a weapon or a momento ....lol

[Monster-Tronics]

I didn’t think my post was going to be very popular. “Why buy when you can build” when you post your are selling skull’s for $7 and another vendor gets on your post and tells people how to make a $5 mold so you can cast $2 skulls how are you going to feel?

There are not many vendors out there selling cold spaghetti and tables with holes for your head to go through. Most vendors work very hard to bring haunts something new to help the haunt owners business succeed. If haunts fail, vendors fail.

I think Tyler has made some good points. Some mag’s and conventions have lost vendor ads and attendance because they do “how to’s” of vendor products that advertise or spend thousands boothing at their shows.

Haunters have been making their own props since day one and I think that is great! Go for it if you have the time and skills to do so. I’ve seen many “how to’s” that are very unsafe, either working with high voltage, chemicals, pressurized PVC, washing machine valves, lawn valves, air ram door openers, etc… If someone shoots a door opener through a customers head the whole haunt industry suffers.

Malicious, my post was not meant as an attack. If you’re done with your pissing match and you are trying to become a haunt vendor you should think about where this is going. If you would like to try and make & sell my FlashFrights go for it. I make about $5 each on them, which does not even cover my time, let alone the cost of doing business. I will make more money off suing you then off the product. I sell them because I think it is a unique idea and many haunts have found them to be very successful.

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

[maliciousstudios]

Hey WTF ?? I gave you credit I said it was a great idea.... DAMN man, chill out... I said it was a great idea apparently you took me the wrong way. I HAVE NO INTENTION ON SELLING LIGHT FRIGHTS OR WHATEVER YOU CALL THEM....

Here... I will quote you, "Are you going to post your own creative ideas for all to make?"

You asked and I responded. I said that I thought it was a great idea and spawned from your idea I offered my own idea.... ( to you ) I think it would be a great addition to your products line.

Would I be angry if someone stole an idea I had ?? Well first how could I tell if the idea was really mine in the first place? We all think we have original ideas, the problem is that 1/3 of us are having the same ideas right now at the same time.

I never thought this was a pissing match, sorry to see you did and got your feelings hurt. I meant nothing by anything I said. I simply said get out there and build some ideas....

If another member can sell skulls for less, I would have to drop my prices or Id have to move on.... no big deal.

And "Suing me?" for what?? Im confused....

[Monster-Tronics]

Malicious, that comment was not targeted at you, it was a general statement for haunters, vendors etc anyone that can step into the position and see it from that point of view.

I appreciate your ideas, I thought you where trying to be a jerk. As for the lanterns, another person talked about releasing a similar product but never did it. Customers have asked me about building lanterns but most lanterns break very easy. The FlashFrights have been tested to take a ton of abuse. Also lanterns provide 360 degree of light which has been tested to be not as scary as a single pointed flashlight.

Also I built a motion sensor controller years ago when I first released the FlashFrights and at the time there was no interest. Since then many customers have ask me about them so I’m planning a new release for the FlashFright Controller at TW. Thanks you are a good straightman! lol

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

[Allen H]

Jeff,
I really dont have time to post a proper reply here, I may later. For now I will say that you are right which is why I put such a huge disclaimer on my post and why I originally said pm me in my original post.
Yes, Im one of the few on here that use my full real name. Yes I was a co-owner of creature crates, my old partner still owns and runs the company. Creature Crates was the first one to sell Jumping stilts to the haunt industry (one of the first ones period) But this year at transworld I saw 6 vendors selling jumping stilts and jumping stilt costumes. The Horrificus costume debued the year after creature crates had a booth at the show. Im not upset in the least at this, Its a part of business, not just haunt business.
I respect your thoughts on the matter but I think you are getting worked up over something very small this time around. I dont think that GEP is really aiming this product at haunted houses, the price is to high. This is more aimed at theme parks in my opinion.Yes the massive ones can afford it, but most will make their own. If I share ideas with someone who is new then he will learn from my mistakes and make a safer product. It helps the industry, it does not hurt it. If someone who asked you for help and was refused and then fried themselves I would say you are partly responsible. Can you charge for the help, sure! You could have given them the advice they needed to be safer. Note in my post it says to consult with professionals ( I assume those professionals will make some money off of it). that helps the industry.
My last quickie point is that I believe the Saw Blade tunnel which you are refering to is overpriced for the haunt market. This post may be the catalist for GEP to realize a new niche and develop single moving saw blade props for $300 each that can then be linked together to eventually create the huge hallway. If they did that and it sold well it would further help the industry.
Jeff I love your products, they are neat and innovative to the haunt industry. If I knew the electronics of how I might make something similar for myself. You have a degree of protection due to the technical knowledge of your product. GEP's tunnel dose not have that, its just a controller and pneumatics hooked up to something different, dozens of companies make pneumatic products. lots of them would be willing to help someone (with their products) make a sawblade tunnel.
I think your anger is unfounded and aimed at the wrong guy. I didnt do anything wrong and left Creature Crates for moral reasons. (I didnt want to copy other products). Relax, have a merry Christmas everyone.
If I dont start loading the car now to go to my inlaws my wife will kill me. I took the time to reply because I value my character and you attacked it.
Allen Hopps

[robos99]

Personally I think we should have more discussion around here about how to do things yourself. Threads like this are a great thing. Everybody can contribute ideas to figuring out how to solve a problem. Now this might be a touchy subject since the very idea happens to be very close to a product offered by a vendor, but that's just bound to happen. Saying you shouldn't post a how-to that explains how to make a vendors product is like saying you shouldn't post a how-to for building animatronics because you're putting Disney out of business.

Jeff your points about people doing things dangerously is exactly the reason why this should be discussed more. If no one talks about how to do things, then people wind up figuring it out themselves, and sometimes the wrong way. People will do this anyways. Why can't this be a place for them to come and find out it's wrong? I once built some custom power cables for my stage lighting company. I thought I was being all innovative and smart figuring out how to solve a common problem without spending a ton of money. It wasn't until I came to an industry forum offering this advice that I discovered that what I was doing was dangerous and illegal. But that's the only way people will learn.

Honestly I rather doubt a how-to is going to put anyone out of business. Anyone who's willing to build something themselves, likely will try. But after their version of the product breaks after the first season they might reconsider purchasing from vendor. Some people simply don't have the time to build something. If your time is money, then buying it from a vendor will always wind up being cheaper. But no amount of how-to's are going to put anyone out of business. If I really wanted to I could build 90% of the gear I used in my time doing stage lighting. But in the end, did I really feel like finding all the parts, doing all that soldering and wiring and building and hope that the damn thing works just to save some cash? No, because my time is money. So I buy it from someone. It works the same way with building haunt props.

But how-to discussions should not be discouraged around here. It not only helps those with a problem to solve, it helps those who are just casually reading. Maybe some guy running a home haunt didn't realize the dangers of using PVC for pneumatics. But an open discussion about building something might reveal that. But on a broader scale, these discussions get people thinking, get the creative juices flowing so to say. The fact that you're telling someone how to do something should be secondary to the fact that everyone is coming together to solve a problem and offering their own expertise. And the fact that many vendors use this forum is a great aspect. It offers the people who do this for a living to offer their input. No one's saying to give away your trade secrets here. But I'm sure as any vendor reading this thread could have come up with a dozen points of advice, especially concerning safety. And Jeff that was something you nailed on the head, concerning this current project.

I see a thread like this as being the same as a blue-sky brainstorming session, and that's something I'd really like to see a lot more of around here. Maybe the reason this isn't that common (or doesn't seem to be) is that people are afraid of someone stealing their ideas. But as an industry we should be able to have discussions and brain storming sessions without being chastised by a vendor claiming you're trying to take food off their plate.

But that's just my 2 cents worth.

[Darkblood]

Well, I feel inclined to post again since I started the thread...
First off...holy cow!
I did not intend to start a thread to promote anger and harshness between members! Or to steal GEP's ideas...
I happened to hear about this in a magazine a couple years ago described during a magician's haunt in Canada...and it sounded neat then.
My idea is a lot different than GEP's...their blades are small only sticking out 6-12 inches...I was thinking of BIGGER ones.
And right now I'm in the pre-planning stages and was wondering which way would better utilize the effect. Like would it be SCARIER to do it this way or that. Not the tech side. I was wondering how someone else might do it and why...to promote discussion and ideas.
The 'plug A into B and screw this to that' talk would be figured out later...whether actors control it or what not...what is the safest...etc.
I did mention SAFETY FIRST in my post also.
I'm not out trying to put vendors out of business. Just because a vendor has a product for sale (that I really wasn't interested in because their design didn't fit my tastes for the money) doesn't mean I'm trying to 'rip them off'.
So where does it stop?
Good point on the drop panel argument...heck we built our own this year...are we putting Scarefactory out of business? I think not.
I have seen this board jump on board and help people out in the past and just thought "Hey, I'll ask the guys on Hauntworld for their opinions..."
But unfortunately, I've seen people shred others too...sad...
So, thanks to all that gave feedback...that's all I was asking for...

Kirk

[Monster-Tronics]

Allen & Malicious, I didn’t mean my post to be a direct attack on either of you, and I am not angry, since I’m a gear head and not a writer I lack tact in my posts that is for sure. I was just trying to point out that vendors should not try to undermine other vendors no mater what the product is or how much it may cost. I apologize if a came off as a jerk or attacking your character, that was definitely not my point. As you well know the haunt market is not a gravy train that some people think it is and we should all be working together.

robos99, your points are well taken. Making “how to’s” may not be directly putting people out of business but it is not helping them I’m sure of that. If you’re looking for professionals to give you safety advice on how to make their products I’m kind of thinking this is why you don’t get the advice. It is just human nature, most will not help if they are thinking you are taking food out of their kids mouths.

Also, working with sometimes dangerous materials should be left to professionals. Many of these “how to’s” are very dangerous and the people doing these could get hurt or hurt others. As far as helping others, I am a member of the Motor City Haunt Club and I have helped a lot of members build their own unique props. In fact I’m doing a seminar next month on how to program a microcontroller, but everything I’ll be showing will be safe for the novice. You could put your tongue on the electronics we will be using and you would not be hurt. I have a degree in electronics and twenty plus years experience but no matter how hard I try I would not be able to give people enough safety knowledge in a few minutes time to dive into high voltage “how to’s”. Sorry I won’t go there. I’ve known several electricians that have been killed.

My products are not immune to being knocked off either. I see people on the other boards trying to figure out my products all of the time. Then the same ones email me and ask a 100 questions. I have people come into my booth and start pulling my stuff apart to try and figure the stuff out or steal it. How do you think I should feel about this? Do you think vendors should hand over all of their schematics and product plans so you can either make it or buy it however you see fit? (I’m not looking for an answer, I’m just trying to make a point) Most of the time I think to myself, go for it! If you are trying to save money you won’t because I know what my margins are and I buy in mass and shipping in mass, speed in production, etc... and I try and tell people this but all I hear is “What you what $70 for a flashlight?”.

Many people just like to build their own props no mater what it costs, just like myself and I have no problem with that. That is how I got into business, I like to build my own stuff and always put my own spin on the prop.

I’ve tried to do some back peddling and explain my intent, again it was not to attack anyone just to bring some light to the facts.

Jeff Londos
Monster-Tronics
Innovators in Haunt Technologies
www.Monster-Tronics.com
See us in St. Louis at TransWorld’s National Haunt & Attractions
Show, booth 714, March 27th -29th 2009
Proud Member of the Halloween and Haunt Vendor Association
www.halloweenhauntvendors.com
www.youtube.com/MonsterTronics

[Darkblood]

I just thought I'd show a pic...I found it online in color (the one in my magazine is small and B&W). It was in a Shriner's Haunted Mansion in Canada and the haunt has since closed due to lack of a building.

http://www.timothydrake.ca/mansion/sawblades.html

This is what I was talking about.

Kirk

[Allen H]

um...apology accepted?
Allen H

[Jim Warfield]

Explainations Don't Work

With some people. From the first Transworld I attended I would hear some people say with a startled tone in their voice, "That item is way too expensive! Why do they think it should cost so much?"
Transworld booth $pace+Travel expense$+motel room for 3-4 night$+ other expense$ directly related to being there+ a profit+ plu$ a cushion incase you don't happen to $ell everything you made for a full profit. Now add the cost of the material$.
Some people see the cost of the materials only......?

[Darkblood]

Jim-I'm not sure if that was directed towards me...but I understand all of that stuff...it's just that $7,000.00 is more than my whole budget.
I'll reiterate and simplify my question...
To those on the board:

Do you think it's scarier:

1. For people to get to a hallway dimly lit seeing sawblades out and hearing them running...lights go out and you still hear them (yet they've moved into the walls so the path is clear but they don't know that)...and they walk forward not knowing if they'll touch one...

2. For people to get to the hallway and you hear them powering down and retracting...then the lights go out...then when they're halfway down the hall the SOUND of them powering up comes on...

That's it in a nutshell...no 'tech talk' or 'how-to' stealing...

Kirk

[Raycliff Manor]

Kirk,

I would tend to think option 2 would be your best bet for two reasons... 1 - the patrons see the saw blades retracting so they have the impression it is alright to move forward, thereby having less of a negative impact on throughput and 2 - The patrons have already associated the sound with the blades out and spinning and will assume in the darkness that they are on the way back out when they are in the midst of the hallway, thereby providing an effective scare!

Kel

[Darkblood]

Kelly!
Thanks for the input...I was thinking the same thing...but wanted to try and cover all the bases since there's still a while before next season!
I know I'd be freaked if I saw them retract and headed up the hallway and heard them starting again...
Maybe there's a third or fourth way to do it? I dunno...
Thanks for the input...it'll be noted!

Kirk