Announcement

**Speculo** · 12-31-2008, 08:10 AM

Tim,

What?

You are actually starting to get me angry here! If we want to talk collaborative effort here lets include Larry, he was very involved in this, much more so than some..

Tim the next time you and I collaborate, I would like to know it is happening OK? That actually might make it helpful.....!

By the way, I liked the way you altered the copy to include (IAHA Member) very nice!

You are creating a very false picture here...

So because someone PAYS IAHA dues they can then be used by IAHA to market it?

You are beginning to astound me. Lets turn the portrait sideways and see the real face appearing shall we....

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**N2SPOOKINU** · 12-31-2008, 11:43 AM

Hey ben just one more thing to add. Did you notice The Darkness was the only thing spelled wrong? The Darkenss lol is that a jab at Larry?

**Darkangel** · 12-31-2008, 11:48 AM

This guy seems to really have an axe to grind....He's not even a current haunt owner too and he's the Haunt show Liason, how does that happen?

Also IAHA, is that association still viable?

Darkangel

**UndeadProd** · 12-31-2008, 12:02 PM

Just for clarification, I also received the list of seminars and speakers directly from Transworld yesterday ... and that post does not specify which speakers are or are not IAHA members

That information was added by Tim when he posted the information on both HA and HW boards.

**drfrightner** · 12-31-2008, 12:04 PM

I would say at this point he's doing more harm than good for IAHA. He is EVERYTHING that is WRONG about IAHA... he is NOT A HAUNTER, and he's the mouthpiece of IAHA. As haunters we don't want some part time vendor speaking for us or any organization formed to speak for haunters.

In my mind he only goes to cement why HHA is going to be so important... Haunters speaking for Haunters!

On another note to my knowledge Tim Turner had NOTHING to do with the seminars this was Ben's arrangement with Transworld, Ben came up with the whole thing. Once he had it more or less put together I helped him refine it and change a few things. Last year Ben and I did it together although I'll be the first to admit he did more work on it than I did.

Ben was driving himself crazy on these seminars because some of the speakers would not call him back. Ben did the seminars to the best of my knowledge!

GOOD JOB BEN! If we are going to talk about the seminars, which is great, lets nt make it out to be some kind of pissing contest its clear and away about education. Haunted House owners and operators should be the ones formulating education for our industry and that is what happened here... Again Good Job Ben!

Larry

**Infoamtek** · 12-31-2008, 12:35 PM

So WTF constitutes a "HAUNTER" in your mind, Larry? Is this just a phrase you throw out when you want to marginalize someone? Is a "HAUNTER" only the owner of a for-profit haunt? Are you saying that those who do non profit haunts, actors, designers, makeup artists, construction people, home haunters, vendors, etc... are not "HAUNTERS"? By your definition, it seems only YOU and a few of your friends are "HAUNTERS" (well, maybe your friends are not "HAUNTERS"). If this is what you think of us, then you have created this website for a bunch of people who are not "HAUNTERS" by your definition.

**xxxdirk** · 12-31-2008, 12:37 PM

sigh... all this sexual tension!! LoL

**Darkangel** · 12-31-2008, 12:50 PM

If you put some tombstones in your front yard and allow trick or treaters through then you are not a haunter, at least not a pro haunter.

**HauntedMemphis** · 12-31-2008, 01:04 PM

I didn't see which track includes the IAHA vs HHA steel cage match? Is that on Friday or Saturday? It certainly seems like that is what people are trying to build up for here.

**drfrightner** · 12-31-2008, 01:04 PM

A HAUNT OWNER OR OPERATOR IS WHAT I WAS REFERING TO... sorry for the confusion. A Haunter can be anyone from a home haunter to a haunted house owner. I'm speaking about the SEMINARS I mean to say that they should be produced by HAUNTED HOUSE OWNERS AND OPERATORS!

NO VENDORS INCLUDING YOURSELF should EVER be someone coming up with seminar idea's for haunted house owners.

In fact vendors should realize who they need information from to survive... they need to LEARN MORE FROM haunted house owners not the other way around.

Vendors should visit haunted houses, they should call haunted houses, they should visit their customers and find out how things lasted, what broke and why, see how they theme, explore new ideas to help the end user.

Haunted Houses will open next year and the year after that even if every single vendor shut down for business... this is a fact.

Vendors like Tim should be less vocal and have a bigger EAR because these are your customers, or people you would like to be your customers. The smart vendors are those who try to learn everything they can from haunted house owners and operators, hear their stories, ask the questions, grab their attention and hear their idea's.

Some vendors actually do this and wel some of those are very very very successfull... I get calls all the time asking 'what do you want, what do you need, what is everyone doing, what going on...'.

If vendors want to grow their business they should be doing more listening to the customers and less trying to tell them what to do or how to do it. If a vendor one October jumped in his car and drove around to 10 or 15 haunted houses, that vendor would come back with more idea's, more knowledge, more information than that person would have gathered from 10 years sitting in his or her shop.

Fact!

Its one thing to build props for a haunted house and a whole other to actually run a haunted house and deal with actors, drunk people, people who want to destroy your attraction, radio stations, 5 other haunts in the same area trying to take your business, weather, baseball teams that make the World Series, and the list goes on and on.

Vendors who do not own haunted houses do not understand these issues hence should not be telling Transworld what seminars haunted house owners need to grow their business. I'll be the first to admit that some vendors have knowledge that many haunt owners do not have such as control systems, lighting, make up, those are all great things, and we need that expertise, but let haunted house owners decide what type of education they need to improve their business.

If haunts do bad, vendors suffer the most!

Larry

**drfrightner** · 12-31-2008, 01:08 PM

BTW... this website is for everyone who loves Halloween to those who own haunted houses. This websites helps people find vendors to events, to haunted houses, to whatever and everything in between.

This website doesn't cost anything to join, its free!

You are not talking apples and apples... we're talking about the industries number one time to come together and those opportunities can't be lost on what isn't important.

The show isn't a fan show, and I've heard many vendors saying they wish that catalog collectors would stop coming to the show. The show is for vendors like yourself SELLING your products to QUALIFIED buyers! Period.

Eduaction is no different you want seminars for professionals and you want those seminars organized by professionals who know whats going on in the industry of owning and operating a haunted house.

I hope that explains it better for you!

Larry

**Infoamtek** · 12-31-2008, 03:37 PM

So, let me get this straight. Once one becomes a haunt vendor all the knowledge one had as a haunt owner/operator disappears? Because one is no longer a haunt owner operator but a haunt vendor now? Is that correct?

**Speculo** · 12-31-2008, 03:54 PM

RE: Tim Turners Transworld Seminar Announcement

RE: Tim Turners Transworld Seminar Announcement

I will try to be clear. I have worked on the seminars with Transworld for 3 years, often with tons of help from Larry. I have done it because I was asked, because I wanted to help.

Many of you may not know this because horn tooting is not what I do. However reading these announcements the way they were presented, it sounds like IAHA was the prime force.

IAHA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEMINARS.

Also I have NEVER even spoken to Tim Turner about the seminars. So there you go for collaboration.

This is the source of the confusion. Apparently IAHA wanted to take over the seminars. Transworld told them, in an effort to be inclusive, that they could �suggest topics and speakers� Apparently on his own Mr. Turner went out and did more behind the scenes getting speakers to call Transworld, etc. About 75% through the process I began to detect these actions as they were causing a bit of confusion for some of the speakers (as to who was in charge) and actually made wrapping up the final line up more difficult.

Were some of his suggested speakers ultimately used? Yes! Many different forces, including the desires of the vendors, the changing demographic of the show, individuals who stepped up, special requests from Transworld, and several key speakers on Corn Mazes and Ren Fairs suggested by Larry effected the final line up.

Let me say this, any number of people can do seminars, and do a great job; I have no illusions that I am any better than anyone else at this.

But this is clear�.The posts made by Mr. Turner are VERY MISLEADING.

Someone also EDITED the seminar series in his posts, ADDING the IAHA MEMBERSHIPS, and in some cases deleting or CHANGING websites (On Larry�s seminar I put Hauntworld, someone changed it to The Darkness)

As to the rest of his voluminous post on the IAHA List, Hauntworld and Haunted Attraction, I have yet to digest it, opting instead to speak out on this topic first to make it very clear.

As to this ongoing policy of sticking IAHA MEMBER on any name that can be found I find it to be extremely annoying. Does the fact that I paid association money give them to right to claim credit for any work I may do? NO! Let me determine what goes behind my name! It is usually nothing or just my Haunt NETHERWORLD. I don�t need to drag my resume with me with every post, thank you.

Clearly this NAME FLAGGING is more in the timing.

�It is time to renew your membership again guys look at all we DO!� Sorry I am not buying it.

Tim if anything I have said is wrong�correct me.

For the rest of you guys, I think the seminars will be terrific! I am sorry if any of this would turn you off to them. I don�t care about credit�I would prefer to remain out of the picture like I have the last few years and let the content speak for itself.

But this was WRONG.

Thanks!

**graystone** · 12-31-2008, 06:58 PM

Interesting!

Larry correct me if I am wrong. But your a Haunt owner and a Vendor as several are in this industry. Can you not be both? The way I take your post is you have to be one or the other. This should include yourself. Also it should not matter if your a "for profit" haunter or a "charity" haunter? Shane

Announcement

Transworld St. Louis Seminars Revealed!!

Transworld St. Louis Seminars Revealed!!

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