I've Finally Had Enough

[Nightmaretony]

Now now, boys. Play nice.

[RoguesHollow]

While I'm not that heavily involved in the policy and business end of hauntedhouse.com I am one of the owners and I can safely say that the most likely reason HauntedIllinois.com was able to get an ad in 2005 was because It was then owned by Michael Cruz. In early 2006 it changed hands to myself, screampass.com and Steve Kopelman. So with new owners come new policies which isn't too surprising and like Larry we're not interested in giving ads to other portals. Why? First off they're not a haunted house, event, festival or attraction. Secondly and more importantly What kind of message does that send to our clients? They buy and ad on our site and then we send the traffic away from our state directory to another portal?! We then force that haunted house owner who's purchased a featured ad banner to either buy an ad on that portal or risk losing a customer because their ad doesn't appear there. that does a disservice to our clients and doesn't help anyone but the portal that paid for the advertisement. We're really more interested in promoting and helping our own haunted house advertisers. It's just common sense.

I can understand Adam's frustration but the reasoning behind it isn't anything personal, its just something that is in the best interest of all haunted house owners out there. It's has really nothing to do with whether we feel threatened or just want to be mean it really just boils down to trying to do what is best for our own haunted house clients.

[RJ Productions]

Okay,

We now have two non-emotional responses from both parties, Hauntworld and HauntedHouse.com.

Both have explained quite well the reasons behind NOT selling Adam a feature banner. The reasons being business not personally based.

It is quite obvious that both parties have NO grudge against either Adam or his site, supporting it when they can.

This should not only be the end of this debate, but has set presidence for any future involvement with these sites.

Thanks to both parties for clearing things up.

[Joedog]

Well since it did not tranfer over here from yeahoo forum.
I wil shorten it up some

This is what we call a urination match. The problem Adam has is he picked the owner of a brewry to challenge. And the owner will win everytime. One by restocking "ammo" or two by cutting the challengers ability to make more ''ammo''.


Ok maybe I further explained it... :roll:

[steve]

I am not partial to any side of this conversation. But I will say a few things.

Larry, For a while Scarefest WAS featured in a banner ad at the top of the directory, so you cant really say that your "weren't allowed" on HI. In fact, as an IL attraction, I wish I had a banner spot like that.

Also, as for traffic agendas etc. One thing I like about HI is the fairness of it. alphabetical order, and featured spots for scream pass. Much like Hauntedhouse.com.

Although I understand "why" the said sites wont allow HI to advertise, as an attraction owner in IL I wish it were allowed... HI provides the public with seasonal, and individual reviews of as many attractions in the area as they can. Adam pays for most (if not all) of these attractions out of pocket, as he almost does it secret shopper style. just shows up, and reviews it based off how he felt he was treated. As an owner I like visitors to be able to see these reviews, as it helps to the deciding of which attraction of visit, and provides a valid insight.

Now i know it has nothing really to do with me, but I as an illinois owner, I almost feel cheated as potential visitors to my show are not (i feel) getting the most comprehensive information possible.

just my 2 cents...

[SomeThingInTheIce]

Dude, Walmart is not going to send people to Target, it's business.

[drfrightner]

Steve,

I think the last poster said it best, Walmart doesn't send people to Target.

What you're saying is without any basis what so ever! Why don't you do me a favor next year, open your haunt and on the FRONT page of your haunt put a banner up for your biggest competition!!! Would you do that?

If you did well I think it would go without saying you'd be an idiot! LOL

No you wouldn't do that for good reason. We will NOT put a link up on our directory because his SITE IS NOT A HAUNTED HOUSE, and his site is another paid directory.

If anyone should feel cheated it would be ANY haunted house that advertised with us, and then we sent them off to another website. If it was me I'd DEMAND my money back...period!

Our directory is suppose to send people TO HAUNTED HOUSES, NOT other website with more information. DUH!

I see how Adam has put this post up on basically every message board on the planet, and even on HAM no one agrees with him. Why he can't understand about he's not a haunted house, I'll never know.

He runs around talking about being blackballed, what is he nuts!

If anything he owes us an apology! Seriously! Those are some strong accusations he's made, and they're without merit, and total baseless.

He did not have an ad on my site last year, and he won't have one this coming year either. I have NOTHING against Adam, or his website but he runs a paid directory, not a haunted house, and thats that.

Larry

[Jim Warfield]

"Apples"= Wal Mart & Target
"Oranges"= Web Sites that offer haunted house information.
Think about it awhile........
How similar? How totally different as far as who views and how long and do people just click on one web site?
Are web ads a viable form of advertising?
I dunno? But then, does anybody really know?
WalMart & Target can measure their patrons in various ways and possibly determine what "works" or doesn't.
I'm all ears......(except for that other part........)

Like Steve just said, Adam does a very good job on Haunted Illinois.com!

[steve]

Larry, I was merely stating what I thought, I wasnt trying to get personal about it... I guess i just choose to disagree?

as for putting my "biggest competition" on my front page? I would do it, if it were done the same for me. plain and simple. In fact I hand their fliers to almost all my customers...

Another fact... my "biggest competition?" Yeah, I built their website for them...

sometimes people get along? What a weird concept....

[DeathReaper]

Larry is right!! That's his own official website and his own policy!

I'm beginning to laugh around here... :lol:

Yeah, I will never forget about Adam from HI forum! As well as you too, Steve!! :evil:

[DeathReaper]

Hey Larry! Lookie who has against your posts here from the other haunt forums below:


Haunted Illinois Message Board
http://www.hauntedillinois.com/phpbb...pic.php?t=1384


Haunted Connection Forum
www.hauntedconnection/forum/viewtopic.php?t=816


BTW, don't feel hard on, Larry! I am NOT one of them anymore! And also, I'm truly sorry if I have to post this topic for Larry on the purpose, you guys from HI or WI either! Too bad!

[Nicole]

Before anyone says "e tu Brutus..." or Bruttina?

I've subscribed to both magazines (current subscriber to HW) and I do frequent these forums (busy being a mom, not as much as I used too) - Larry has given much PR nation-wide for the industry and that's to be commended... I'm thankful for what he's done.

Having said that, I think it's more sticking up for the little guy (even though in our corner of the world HI is a big guy)...

Adam does it for the passion, and I have no doubt Larry has that passion either - but Adam is not out to make money off of his site, nor does he have any magazines or other business to promote... no other agendas except his pure love of our industry. If anything I am sure he loses money to the maitenence of the site, going to events and covering them for his site. He tirelessly promoted other haunt-going ons in our region (Knowledge 4 The Carnage free haunter-seminars, charity events, etc.).

He is a true-hearted asset to the industry.

Nothing personal, but I think you'll find many of us concerned/speaking out because they don't want to see him squeezed out by the larger search engines (like Wal-Mart has done to local businesses).

I don't doubt anyone can shut him out because in Illinois, he is the #1 place to go to find haunts for that market, just like Hauntedwisconsin.com is for Wisconsin (also run not-for-profit by a wonderful couple that actually donates their ad monies to charity).

It is Larry's site and he can have his own rules... but...

THERE IS ROOM FOR EVERYONE and that is my point... my 2 cents. Not like it's going to change any minds... agree to disagree with me.

PS: in years past we put our major "competition" on our website and they did the same for us - it was called cross-promotion and it brought all of our haunts more business for it. We formed an alliance called "Terror Alley". Nothing but good came from it.

[drfrightner]

Nicole,

No one is trying to squeeze out anyone, actually comments like that give us meaning Hauntworld and HauntedHouse.com to much credit. When you really think about it we're just small fish a giant massive OCEAN... Notice I didn't say pond. LOL

What Adam is doing is great, for his site, and the haunts who promote there. No one is taking anything away from him what so ever. Not allowing him to advertise on our HAUNTED HOUSE directory is not the end of the WORLD...geeze!

Adam has gone off the deep end and so far about 99% of everyone I've seen post does not agree with his gripe because he has no gripe. He wants to advertise HIS directory that he charges haunts to be a part of, on other peoples directories, which they charge for.

Try and grasp that concept ... one haunt directory is bitching because they can't advertise their haunted house directory on someone elses haunted house directory. Thats absurd!

We have a HAUNTED HOUSE DIRECTORY FOR HAUNTED HOUSES...the people who come to our directory are looking for HAUNTED HOUSES not another directory! Adams bitching and moaning is childish and stupid.

On one hand he says he's got rules against haunts listing on his site that are not in his state, and expects you to abide by them, however he doesn't want to abide by anyone elses rules. He can't tell me what to do with my site, or tell HauntedHouse.com what they can or can't do on their site just as we can't tell him what to do on his site.

I hope this clears up my position on the matter!


STEVE,

Not to take anything away from you buddy, but if you ran a successful business of any type, and you bleed sweat, tears, and piles of money after more piles of money...and finally you built that business into something successful, and then some Johnny Come Latey comes along and wants to build a haunt down the street, rob off your traffic, charge the same as you, get on the radio and say they're the best, even though they've never opened before...

Now if you want to let them put a big giant banner on your front page, and you want to hand out their brochures and promote their business...that's just plain dumb! No and I mean NO business person would ever consider doing such a thing no one. Right now running a haunted house for you might be fun and games, but when you have thousands of dollars invested and you have people who work for you full time year around, and their families depend on your, and your family depends on you, and all the bill collectors depend on you to pay your bills, the last thing you want to do is help someone compete with you. THAT IS JUST DUMB!

Period!

Sure people can be nice, and we're nice, we don't slam other haunts that open in St. Louis, we don't get on the radio and say this or that, we don't try and steal their flyers, or tear down their signs, we don't do any of that...however I'm not going to let some other haunt come onto my parking lot and hand out flyers, or put links on my website, or put a sign up on my ticket booth. Thats just dumb!

If you're doing a haunted house for FUN ... sure I'd do it in a heartbeat. If another haunt owner wants to come over and talk to me, I'm all ears, they want to go through our haunt, sure go for it, but the last thing I'm going to do is tell people on my website that I spent thousands and thousands of dollars promoting and once they get there say ... 'oh while you're hear check out this other haunted house right down the street'. DUMB!

Hauntworld has been and might I ad LONG before HauntedIllinios or HauntedHouse.com been promoting the haunted house industry. I do my very best to promote ALL haunts, big, small, massive or just something in a garage. I feel like its part of my commitment to the industry.

This past year we launched the biggest and most successful PR effort, and gained the industry OVER 15 million dollars in POSITIVE stories. I did this because I care and I hope it helped your haunt and everyone elses.

When people talk about passion, there isn't many who have showed more passion for helping than myself...sorry! Additionally I thank all of those others who have put their passion to work for the industry as well. Good for them! Hauntworld has done nothing but lose money for me year after year after year... I keep doing it because of passion!

I love Hauntworld! I love Haunted Houses! I love Halloween and always have...just because someone charges for some service doesn't mean you don't have passion. Next time you see Scarefactory ask them to give you an animation for passion, for the love of it and see what they say. LOL.

Just because you charge for something doesn't mean you lack passion!

Larry

[steve]

Im not going to try and argue, I said what i needed, ill leave it at that.

But, to assume that since my attraction isnt at as large of a scale as yours, its just all "fun and games" well that is just rude. Each year we have alot riding on the success of the attraction,, and we run it just as if it were our last dollars riding on it. Its a business, plain and simple. Working with our friends at the other haunts, that works for us, it may not for you... but it does us. perhaps its just the different markets, but up here,what we do works for us.

[mindtumor]

Competition or not Adams site is not a haunted house and based on that alone it shouldn't be allowed to purchase a banner on a site that is for HAUNTED HOUSES ONLY. Ok if some people think haunted illinois should be able to buy a banner why not Scarefactory or Transworld? Bottom line is it is a haunted house search engine not a page with ads for whoever wants to buy a spot. And besides he allows anyone to buy spots in his magazine so its not like he is blackballing anyone. I would personally complain about the site if I went to look for a haunted house and one of the banners took me to a vendor or someother search engine.