Las Vegas show dead

[RJ Productions]

Sorry Damon,
The Halloween Show is already slated to go back to Rosemont in 2010. There is even a booth from Rosemont in Vegas with big banners "Rosemont Welcomes the Halloween Show back Home!"

Now depending on how successful the HAUNT Show is in St. Louis will determine ITS location. TW has already scheduled a meeting with all the vendors at the conclusion of St. Louis. I am sure they will then decide wether to remain in St. Louis or return to Rosemont.

Major problem with Rosemont is that it scehduled for the last couple days of Feb. to March 1st!! Always a chance with weather in Chicago, and I DON'T want to hear "just buy a coat".The concern is flights canceled, buyers not able to get in, vendors not able to get product in...We had to unload equipment in 12 inches of snow a couple years ago and outgoing flights were canceled stranding buyers who then had to pay for extra days in Rosemont, one more day and they would have been stranded at home!!!. If it's cold, big deal we're inside, it's getting to and from the show that is the concern! A vendor doesn't want to pay thousands of dollars to have Buyers sitting at their home airport unable to attend...THAT is the issue.

[Infoamtek]

Once again Larry

Your use of the "WE" when speaking of the TW show in St. Louis shows your need to have the show be a financial success, thereby explaining the cheerleading, qed. I am not being negative, just brutally honest. I hope the show is a success for my vendor friends who are showing, but let's not sugar coat this. Most of the attendees are not there to buy. They are there to look at the pretty toys, talk with friends and party hearty after hours. To say different is prevarication. Here's hoping there are enough buyers among the attendees to make the show worthwhile to those who have shelled out tens of thousands of dollars to show off the pretty toys they have made. Personally, I think everybody who attends the TW Haunt show should have to pay an entrance fee. It would cut down on non-buying attendees and help defer costs to the vendors. Those same vendors who are paying for this party.

[toothtwister]

We have lowered cost for vendors to vend by $700.00 per booth. We as an industry have taken this show out of this mess known as HALLOWEEN RETAIL SHOW(S). The whole industry has promoted this show and that is what is important.

Who's 'we'? Transworld had no real choice but to lower their booth pricing in order to attract the Haunt vendors- After it became clear that the HCP show was going to split last year, Transworld reached out to the haunt industry as a life preserver which IMO was their only initial motivation.

Now don't get me wrong, I think it's great that the Haunt industry has it's own show this year- it has done what it needed to do to remain viable in 2009, just like Transworld has done ( TW had to look to the haunt industry to save their own butts)

While we unfortunately won't be attending the Haunt show in St. Louis this year, we do hope that it is a success- I personally think it will be successful, although I think it's a mistake to pump it up too much- you get peoples hopes up and they might be left feeling disappointed. This happened with the Houston show for a lot of people.

We vended at the (Rubies) Houston show this year and we are now at the Las Vegas show this weekend. For what it's worth, here is my assesment-

The Houston show wasn't nearly as full as people expected. However, every vendor that I spoke to wrote good orders (and I tried to talk to a good cross-section of Halloween- not party- vendors). There were definately fewer buyers in Houston, but they were serious buyers and bought product. As an example, our sales were more than double what we wrote in Las Vegas the previous year.

Now, as the title of this thread says, the Vegas show is dead. The floor is 40% to 50% what is was last year. Attendance is waaay down- absolutely NO buying groups are here (NCA, PCA, Paper First...). Houston definatley trumped this show (which is what Rubies wanted to do).

So here is what I think will happen-

Transworld will move the show back to Rosemont in 2010. They have already said they would. This will be the 'nail in the coffin' for the TW HCP show.

Transworld will continue to court the Haunt industry, and depending on what happens in St. Louis in 3 weeks, we may see the Haunt show change venues (think Rosemont).

Meanwhile...

The Halloween Expo in Houston will then become the 'go-to' Halloween and Party show (in 2011). This show will last for 3-5 years, until...

The majority of folks in the industry, Halloween/Party and Haunt included, will lament the 'good ol' days' when there was just 'one big show'- That's right: The Haunt owners, who most of which now operate giftshops (as the industry has grown) and the Halloween/Party people, who now realize that the Haunters contributed excitement and energy to theoriginal show which translated into more sales, will want to merge the shows back into one big show once again.

Only now (around 2015) it must be done right- Not one show, but TWO shows running concurrently: the Halloween Costume and Party 'TRADESHOW' in one hall and the Haunt CONVENTION in another- Two shows, two badges, and strict enforcement of who gets to go into which show (behave accordingly).

I don't have a crystal ball (if I did I wouldn't be selling teeth) and I am probably way off in what will actuall transpire, but I think the Halloween Party side of the industry is destined to join the Haunt side once the ill will and animosity subsides- but this is going to take some time.

Peace.

Thad
Dental Distortions

[drfrightner]

OMG you guys are JLKJ:LKLJD....

When I say "WE" I mean "WE" as an industry by deciding to do our own show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The vendors and some buyers decided this not me, WE decided to make this show happen so WE could increase our business, lower costs, and get out from the mess that is going on within the retail industry.

YES WE WE WE WE WE WE did this.

DUH!

Larry

[drfrightner]

If Transworld for any reason decided they wantd to skip out on a Haunt ONLY show which I do not think they will do, then the haunt industry must start its own show for its own benefit just like every other association and industry does. We are not helpless or well maybe some of you are but I'm not... I choose to believe that haunted house owners and operators are smart independent free thinking go getters who can do anything they set their minds to.

We are not at anyones mercy, we can do (there goes that word we again) whatever we say we're going to do despite a few negative people who like to stir the pot on a daily basis.

If you want to debate something come to the debate with an open mind, think about what is best for all not yourself.

I'm helping Transworld because I choose to believe in the end they will stick to their word. IF not they are choosing to do what is in their best interest for thier own survival which I can understand but that doesn't mean our industry has to agree or go along with it.

Everyone has to do what they think is best for themselves or their industry. Hooking up with a retail show and being at someones mercy is not one of them.

Grow up guys and get out of your mothers basement! Geeezzzzz....

Larry

[drfrightner]

Thad,

Thank you for your report. I probably would agree with most of what you said there...

I will offer some predictions of my own...

1) Houston will end up being the only show next year. Going back to Chicago was like a gimmick to say 'hey come back to the old days' or whatever but it will not work without Rubies.

Rubies is the key if they choose again to skip that show I think after this mess even more vendors will skip out.

2) Because the show is going back to Chicago in into the winter months it will fall flat on its face because now Houston and Chicago shows are very close to each other in the time of the year. People will not attend both and will not vend at booth again. They will choose Houston.


3) Houston was not a total success. This made it look like Vegas would be more successful and now we see that is not the case. Every vendor I talked to said they would not vend at both places again. So now that the retail buyers have spoken it looks like Houston will be the main show in 2010 unless Transworld can convince Rubies to play ball again. If Rubies comes back then maybe the Houston show would go under. At this point from everything I have heard the relationship is beyond repair but that doesn't mean it can't be repaired. In 2010 without Rubies the Chicago show will become worse than this years.

4) Houston and Vegas or Chicago can't survive one has to go. Transworld will have to do a lot of offseason selling to be that show and that will take months to shake out.

Haunters should not put thier chips into any basket but their own.

5) Transworld may eventually lose the retail show, but they have new show and they can choose to grow this show with Halloween retailers as well but instead of being the sideshow we are the mainshow. This haunt show has a chance to grow into a major HOLIDAY ATTRACTION SHOW, with Halloween, Christmas, and amusement facilities.

There is a bright future ahead of them here if they choose to FOCUS on this show. I think this show can grow into something close to 200,000 square feet with over 5,000 buyers.

But that takes a commitment from everyone.


My Prediction:

Again this is just a prediction but unless Transword is able to wrangle Rubies away, their retail show is doomed. Vendors in any industry do not want there to be two shows because of cost and time. One show will win and when you consider the single bigger vendor Rubies is backing the other show who do you think will win out here? So again unlss Rubies stops screwing with things to me at least Houston will be the show.

I don't know how much space Transworld reserved for Chicago but it will not fill and there will not be many retail buyers there. Houston and Chicago shows are only a month apart one is in the warmer weather while the other is in the freezing cold. You figure it out.

I predict that Transworld will ask haunters if they want to combine the shows back together, but what exactly would you be combining? PART of a retail show with a haunt show?

Haunters will fight about this because they don't konw the facts and won't listen either... this will drag out for months. Everyone loses.

However if HHA can become a clear leader for this industry then something gets done to save off total destruction. Making these choices takes information, not just speculation.

We don't know what will happen so its silly to even assume. This haunt show needs to play out, and then let all the dust settle and see what happens. Gather all the info and make an educated choice but a passionate one.

In the end I feel like all the retail shows will come after haunts, and for once we'll be able to say no thanks we don't need you rather than the traditional other way around.

I hope to be working with Transworld for years to come on these haunt shows and I hope they see the future in it but who knows. I understand they will do whatever it takes to fight for Halloween show and they should but if they come up short our industry needs to be seperated from the mess.

Larry

[brad]

Larry, I agree with pretty much everything you said so far.

What I dont wnat to see happen, is that the haunt show combines back with the party show. That means back to Chicago, and back into nothing to down near by, and freezing weather.

Back in 2007, I was a part of that crowd that got stranded. I was due out on a job on Monday, but my flight got cancelled, and I almost got fired because of this.

If TW and the haunt show combine up again next year, I hate to say this, but I might not go.

I may just have to order stuuf off of the websites.

I'll be patient and see what happens, but if WE have a chance to branch off into out own show, I think we should take that chance.

[Nicole]

Regarding an earlier quote...

Quote: TW shows where most of the haunt "buyers" were haunt actors, construction people and other members of the crew who had no say in what was bought, but would still take up time and space in the booth.

I'd just like to point out that while many haunts bring "actors" and "construction people" "makeup artists" etc... many of these production team members will meet with their owner/operators of their attraction and point out specific products/services that the owner may have not seen.

Over the years several of our actors/makeup artists and construction team have attend TW with our owner, and on many occasions the owner has purchased things that he wasn't originally planning to, until suggestion/discussion from these very people. This dynamic is the case with us, and I am sure with many attractions. I see many attractions having little meetings in corners during the TW shows to discuss ideas and products they are all seeing on the show floor. Yes, the ultimate purchasing power/wallet lies with the owner, but many purchases have come via influence of other members of the attraction. Our attraction realizes the high production costs for literature/information you pass out, therefore our team works the floor as a group, separate from our owner and the group will only take 1 piece of literature if we feel it is applicable (vs. each person of the team taking info). We meet once or twice with our owner to discuss products/ideas and many times we have something he doesn't and vice/versa and all of it is discussed.

I caution vendors who dismiss the influence that these actors/construction and other production team members actually have on the actual owner (main purchaser).

Something that is a parallel - In my full time career I spend 3 months of the fall and 2 months in the spring working booths/tables for my University at college fairs (as an Admissions Counselor/recruiter). Anyone (and I mean anyone) who is interested in my institution I treat everyone the same, giving 100% of the best service and information that I can - even if it's NOT the student. Many times I've had, 'I'm here for my son/daughter, niece/nephew, grandchild, neighbor, etc..." Some of my best students that I enrolled were referrals that came in from these exact types of interactions. One of these is currently on full scholarship - received the most $ this year for any student coming in next year... all because their Aunt was passing through a community Expo and said to me, "my nephew is a senior and wants pre-med - you have it, right?"

[Grimley]

I already let the vendors know we will not attend the Transworld Halloween show anymore. We have decided to attend the Houston show because it was superior in every respect. I told them bluntly that if they want our business they better attend the Houston show. As for the haunt show that will play out in two weeks. If anything it will be fun.. BTW I heard two vendors at the Vegas show tell me they will vend in St Louis... Score two more.

[damon carson]

You know I completely forgot about them saying they were coming back to
Chicago! I just got a little too happy hearing Vegas wasnt a hit this year. Well there is always 2010 but reallly do we all want to go back to all that again sharing with a retail show and being 2nd billed like in the past. Lets hope they keep the Haunt and Attractions show going with or without the retail show.
Damon

[Grimley]

I think with the 350+ vendors paying 2 to 3x's the booth prices at the retail show will keep Transworld from dropping it all together.

[robert]

With Transworld financially weakening as vendors decide to show only at the Houston show, what would happen to their Haunt Show if Scarefactory, Distortions and Oak Island decided to jump ship and show at Hauntcon or similar show instead?

[toothtwister]

I spoke to a LOT of folks (buyers and vendors) today on this third day of the Vegas show as I had plenty of time to do so.

But let me first respond to a few of Larry's points-

1) Houston will end up being the only show next year. Going back to Chicago was like a gimmick to say 'hey come back to the old days' or whatever but it will not work without Rubies.

Almost. I think that Transworld is still too blind to see the writing on the wall- TW will have the HCP Show next year in Rosemont and, as I said in my previous post, it will be the last nail in the coffin for that show because all of the buyers will be going to Houston (especially after this dismal show).

Get this- the new floorplan for the HCP show next year in Chicago has the lingerie vendors front and center where Rubies used to be- what the heck is that about???!

And yes, TW DOES want to combine the HCP show with the Haunt show in 2010- So Larry, are you going to still work with and support TW when then attempt to move the Haunt show out of your front yard??- I don't think so.

3) Houston was not a total success. This made it look like Vegas would be more successful and now we see that is not the case. Every vendor I talked to said they would not vend at both places again. So now that the retail buyers have spoken it looks like Houston will be the main show in 2010 unless Transworld can convince Rubies to play ball again. If Rubies comes back then maybe the Houston show would go under. At this point from everything I have heard the relationship is beyond repair but that doesn't mean it can't be repaired. In 2010 without Rubies the Chicago show will become worse than this years.

I agree that the Houston show was not the total success that everyone hoped that it would be (and I hope that's not the case in St. Louis in 2 weeks). But IMO there is no way that Rubies and Tranworld can patch up their differences anytime soon. Those two egos are just to set in their ways for the time being- but heck, what do I know??

I spoke to my TW sales rep (I won't give names), and really tried to express my sentiments regarding the current situation with these shows and, while he is a nice guy, I got the sense that he was more interested in talking than listening (He must get this for Joe Thaler, CEO of Transworld who does the same thing).

Until TW really begins to listen to their customers, nothing will change and TW will continue to get their shows wrong.

5) Transworld may eventually lose the retail show, but they have new show and they can choose to grow this show with Halloween retailers as well but instead of being the sideshow we are the mainshow. This haunt show has a chance to grow into a major HOLIDAY ATTRACTION SHOW, with Halloween, Christmas, and amusement facilities.

Transworld WILL lose the retail show. You should see the look of desperation on their faces here in Las Vegas. I think they know it on one level but they don't want to admit it; they don't know what to do.

In a way, this is good for the haunt show because it will force them to put all of their energy in the St. Louis show but with a mere two weeks left, how much more can they do with marketing and promotions?

A Holiday Attraction Show? If the folks who make up the Halloween industry can't seem to get along, you really think that adding the Christmas, Easter, 4th of July and Groundhog day folks to the mix will work? Good luck with that one...

Now go ahead and call me 'negative' lol.

All for now.

Peace.

Thad
Dental Distortions

[drfrightner]

Thad,

I don't think your post was negative nor was it anything but correct. I think your comments are pretty dead on the money. What makes you think TW will try to put the retail show and the haunt show back together. Another person posted today that they said no that wasn't going to happen. I can understand why you would think they'd want to but at this point there is no way they can.

The Hauntshow will be a success and that show need to continue to grow. If I'm Transworld at this point I just drop the Halloween retail show all together and move onto other things that are successfull.

Lastly, our industry can't do HOUSTON because they are charging like $2500 per booth and that is just outragous. The more these tradeshows cost the more we will all find ways to skip them all together.

St. Louis Hauntshow will be a total success and there is a ton of room to grow so keep building ontop of that if you ask me.

As long as Transworld is planning a haunted house show I will help them if they want to move the two shows together I will not. We as an industry needs to move on by ourselves for ourselves.

As for your commens about the Holiday show... I didn't say that, I meant Holiday Attraction show. There is only two holidays that I know of that have attractions Christmas and Halloween.

Larry

[Kevin Dells]

[QUOTE=Nicole;61021]Regarding an earlier quote...

Quote: TW shows where most of the haunt "buyers" were haunt actors, construction people and other members of the crew who had no say in what was bought, but would still take up time and space in the booth.

I'd just like to point out that while many haunts bring "actors" and "construction people" "makeup artists" etc... many of these production team members will meet with their owner/operators of their attraction and point out specific products/services that the owner may have not seen.

Over the years several of our actors/makeup artists and construction team have attend TW with our owner, and on many occasions the owner has purchased things that he wasn't originally planning to, until suggestion/discussion from these very people. This dynamic is the case with us, and I am sure with many attractions. I see many attractions having little meetings in corners during the TW shows to discuss ideas and products they are all seeing on the show floor. Yes, the ultimate purchasing power/wallet lies with the owner, but many purchases have come via influence of other members of the attraction. Our attraction realizes the high production costs for literature/information you pass out, therefore our team works the floor as a group, separate from our owner and the group will only take 1 piece of literature if we feel it is applicable (vs. each person of the team taking info). We meet once or twice with our owner to discuss products/ideas and many times we have something he doesn't and vice/versa and all of it is discussed.

I caution vendors who dismiss the influence that these actors/construction and other production team members actually have on the actual owner (main purchaser).


AMEN SISTER!!!! THATS WHAT IV'E BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG!!
Good to see you chime in again Nicole, Hope alls well with you!