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Critical To Your Business - The Future Of Haunting Panel!

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  • Critical To Your Business - The Future Of Haunting Panel!

    I wanted to remind everyone who owns or who plans to own a haunted attraction about a seminar VERY IMPORTANT to your business, THE FUTURE OF HAUNTING panel that will be presented at Transworld on Saturday from 12:45pm - 2:45pm.
    The speakers are:

    Cydney Neil of Rocky Point Haunted House

    Larry Kirchner of The Darkness, Hauntworld and Halloween Productions

    Chris Stafford of 13th Floor Haunted Houses, The Great Room Escape and Zombie Apocalypse Live

    Randy Bates of The Bates Motel and Haunted Hayride/ Pennhurst Asylum

    Ben Armstrong of NETHERWORLD Haunted House

    For 2 hours they will discuss many critical aspects of the haunted attraction industry, but perhaps the most important to your business will be:

    1) HOW they have built their businesses and what you can do to take YOUR attractions to the next level of financial and critical success!

    2) WHAT will be the next big things in Haunting and how can you get ahead of the curve!
    There will be ample time at this panel to address YOUR questions - If you are serious about the business of haunting this panel is for you!

    Sign up here: https://registration.haashow.com/eve...turdaySeminars
    Ben Armstrong
    NETHERWORLD HAUNTED HOUSE
    www.Fearworld.com
    www.NetherworldNetwork.com

  • #2
    Cydney Neil? Didn't her haunt Rocky Point close down in Utah like 10 years ago? You have 4 of the past leaders but only one representing the future of the industry in the 13th Floor guys, they are becoming the leaders of the industry. Maybe next year it'd be great to get some new blood to talk about where they want to take the haunted house business.

    Jake

    Comment


    • #3
      Jake,

      Could what you said be any more wrong or insulting? I mean seriously wrong! Let me start from the top...

      1) Cydney Neil: For starters her haunted house did things yes 10 years ago that haunts TODAY still can't accomplish. Not only that the quality of her haunted house is still better from 10 years ago than almost EVERY SINGLE haunted house in the nation today with the exception of maybe 2 or 3. I mean her haunt is still legendary and always will be... you talk industry leader she was racking up awards left and right before 13th Floor even thought of doing a haunted house. And btw that is not a shot at 13th Floor because I'm sure they would agree with me. Lastly she just went on this marathon tour this past October and visited dozens of haunts so she will bring some interesting perspective.

      2) Ben Armstrong; OMG you must be kidding to call him old news. Seriously? Netherworld is the #1 haunted house in the NATION BY ATTENDANCE ALONE. You don't accomplish that by being old news. I would ask if you own a haunted house and if you do is your haunted house featured on national TV or have academy award winning actresses like Jennifer Lawrence or the entire cast from Walking Dead coming by year in and year out? I mean you have to absolutely kidding me with that comment. And again not a shot at 13th Floor or my own haunt for that matter it would take MULTIPLE 13th floor haunts in MULTIPLE cities to equal the attendance of Netherworld. Additionally it would take ALL THREE of my haunts to equal their attendance and honestly I still don't think I can beat them. OMG you are so wrong. I'm just sitting here and my head is spinning to consider the owner of netherworld old news yesterdays trash. My head is just spinning with that notion.

      3) Randy Bates: Not as much is known about Bates Motel because he doesn't go around blowing his own horn because he likes hanging out in the mountains, spending a lot of time with his family but let me bring the reality to you for a moment. There is MORE top level haunted houses in Philadelphia than anywhere in the whole entire WORLD and his haunts are the top of the food chain in the most competitive market in the entire country. There isn't a SINGLE {PERSON or COMPANY in this ENTIRE industry that would even CONSIDER opening a haunt in Philly ... if you had to choose between DEATH by firing squad or opening a haunt in Philly the easy avenue would be just shoot yourself. So all credit there. Again you are so wrong.

      How does one compete in a market filled with that many haunts... well don't attend and you won't learn anything. Your loss.

      4) Now the big one ... ME! You talk OLD NEWS HOLY COW now you really hit the wrong turn and actually flew off the cliff. I'm the ONLY one in the industry that publishes a magazine that helps haunts with great information. I'm the only one with a data base helping people find haunts across the country that is attracting over 10 million visitors. And OMG I Just created the first and I mean the first time EVER where a haunt owner created an online ticketing company that is actually better than the other ones out there and is CHEAP. I started this for the entire industry to help you save tens of thousands of dollars... who else did that?

      I also produce tons of how to dvd's, I post on this board every single week answering questions, I have a facebook page with 460,000 followers, we promote the industry, and lets not forget the haunted house tours which I believe have helped thousands of people advance their own haunts. This wasn't done for money it was done to help the industry. And if I was going to continue this show coming up that has created hundreds of new companies offering thousands of new products, and bringing new buyers in from around the WORLD wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for me... I essentially started it.

      So wow what a shot at me ... holy cow!

      I'm doing a seminar how how to sell 1 million dollars worth of tickets online because I've actually done it... I'm offering to teach you! I get paid a $450 dollar speaker fee for that, when in fact its probably worth like $10,000 speaker fee.

      WOW!

      And not to leave out 13th Floor, yes those guys have expanded in many cities and are doing a great job. Many haunts have done this before and I'm sure many haunts will do it into the future. Most if not all will fail but 13th Floor guys seem to be doing great, good for them. So certainly have the business side of this industry down to perfection and will offer I'm sure some really exciting perspective but they are business people expanding their business as all aggressive business people SHOULD DO! I applaud them because they are in fact growing their business and they are making a lot of money. More haunts should follow their lead and learn that its a business first and foremost and if you remember that you to can be very successful.

      But to be CLEAR 13th Floor are doing what they are doing to grow THEIR business... I'm doing the same exact thing as is Netherworld and I hope all haunted houses. NO one should be considered an industry leader because of how they help their own business, rather what they do to help the industry as a whole. And to be perfectly 110% clear ... there are MANY people I would say are doing JUST THAT and some are older and have been around a long time, some are coming up and some think they are but they are NOTHING but hot air.

      Its up to the people to decide who is actually doing good and who isn't... I personally don't care if someone considers me to be an industry leader or not.

      I gave up caring about that a few years ago. I realized that trying to lead this industry soaked up so much of my time, with NO reward so I smartly started to realize I needed to focus more on my business and less on the rest. Its paying off for me because hey I have to put my kids thru college now, I have to pay a lot of bills so I need to put my focus more forward and less in the rear view mirror.

      I have never been given an award, a thank you, a ribbon, nothing nor have I ever asked for one... I do what I do because I choose to that is the true meaning of a leader. So in closing I hope you will retract your statement because its actually very disrespectful in so many ways. And even though you gave all the props to 13th Floor and yes they deserve a lot of applause for what they've done, I'm 110% POSITIVE they would agree they look up to guys like Cyd and Ben I have no doubt at all. You can call whomever you CHOOSE to call an industry leader, you can look up to whomever YOU choose to look up to, however don't disrespect those who are doing a lot and have done a lot and continue to do a lot. That was just the cheapest of cheap shots in my book.

      I put up thousands of dollars, my time, and more to start the industries FIRST PR PROGRAM which gave us all the press we still enjoy today. There was MANY haunts who believed in this CRAZY idea I had over 10 years ago, one being Ben Armstrong who supported all my nutty idea's and he supported them with his dollars, his knowledge, and his leadership. When we break it all down here, anyone who really knows would tell you Larry has done sooooo much... and behind the scenes of almost every single thing I've done to help EVERYONE was people like Randy Bates, Ben Armstrong, and Chris Stafford. I have to thank all these guys for helping support many of the things I wanted to do... and thankfully most of them worked out great. Ben has been a great person and a great friend to me he was always the rational person to help guide all my energy. When I wanted to start this show that is about to happen in two weeks it was people like Distortions, Gore Galore, and many others who said LARRY we support you... creating this show took a lot of leadership, tons of phone calls, a lot of damn near fist fights (LOL), but more than anything it took a TON of INDUSTRY WIDE SUPPORT. People said the industry was too small, not enough buyers, we should stay with the retailers... thankfully we had real leadership and support to do what is NOW the single greatest achievement our industry has ever known.

      And the people who made that possible including Jen Thayler to Distortions to Ben Armstrong to everyone between... you can't cast that aside even when they are 90 years old. Most importantly I think the biggest industry leader we've ever seen was the Halloween Retail Show folks... who showed at least me when someone tries to BULLY YOU, stand up and kick them dead square in the nuts! Their constantly insults of our industry finally showed this industry we could do whatever we wanted and we did.


      For those who read this whole entire letter it was needed because ANY haunter who forgets what actually GOT YOU to this point is a total FOOL! I can tell you the people who design cars today still hail Henry Ford... when you forget your roots or origins you will lose your way and the whole industry could be lost. The owner of Amazon.com said it best when he said ALL INDUSTRIES will ultimately have a life expectancy he just hopes to keep his running longer than most. The haunt industry is not fool proof and will I believe be a thing of the past one day... and that day might be sooner than you think. So the king of staying around as long as you can is by learning from the past, and looking into the future.

      Larry
      Larry Kirchner
      President
      www.HalloweenProductions.com
      www.BlacklightAttractions.com
      www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
      www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Larry,

        I meant no disrespect to you or anyone. The point I was making is that the name of the seminar refers to the future of the industry and to me, it appears that the 13th floor group is the future. They represent what's next instead of what's existed up until this point, those guys are going to dominate the industry nationally and no one has done what they are doing in the past that I know of. Everyone know the other 4 and knows they are/were industry leaders but I think for the most part they have peaked, with you being the exception perhaps due to your expanding next year and you are the top dog in the industry overall and you run the best magazine.
        It's no disrespect at all, but Cydney talking about the future of haunted houses because she went to a bunch this year is as absurd as having Leonard Pickle on as an expert on the future of haunting. She was a legend, I went to Rocky point at least 5 times when it was open. But she did have something the majority of us didn't band that was connections in hollywood and she acquired props and set pieces and even talent that someone in say, Idaho, could never get. She was in the perfect position to be highly successful and she did an amazing job.

        Jake

        Comment


        • #5
          Jake,

          I have to totally disagree with you again. You talk about 13th Floor or let me just say ANYONE who decided to expand out of their market... that isn't the direction the industry is going nor does it mean they are going to dominate anything. I can tell if you they decide to open in Philly they will lose tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they went to Atlanta they or anyone else would be like an ant looking up at a skyscraper. When you say this its totally absurd... because for it to be TRUE you'd have to say they or anyone has a product that no one else can touch and that just isn't the case.

          If we look around at the industry and say which haunts are hands down the beet most inspirational I've never heard anyone say any other haunt than the same 5 or 6... Haunted Overload is doing something that everyone praises. Netherworld, 13th Gate, and heck when you find a location like Pennhurst Asylum or Eastern State Penn NO ONE would EVER compete with you no matter who you are.

          I just don't think you get it... lets take LA Haunted Hayride. They BOMBED in New York from what I heard, but in LA they are doing fantastic. Because they got on Shark Tank are they industry leaders? Well they took their show on the road to New York and tanked again from what I heard. What is the difference? Well in LA they are in a FAMOUS and VERY WELL KNOWN abandoned zoo... it doesn't get much better than that. So can you stand on your own two feet in another city if you don't find an famous and well known abandoned zoo? So far it appears NO.

          I hate to say this but look at Steve Kopleman so he tries really hard to open haunts across the country and typically they fizzle out which now seems to be the case with his latest venture of Rob Zombie. On the flip side he's opened escape game franchise is so many cities its not funny... so yeah maybe he's never been able to make a mark with a long running haunted house but he's got the biggest string of escape games across the country. He's probably making a complete fortune. Does that make him an industry leader or a business man? In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he gives up haunted houses for good and focuses 110% on escape games. That is smart. I should have thought of that. LOL

          Also you're dead wrong about opening in multiple markets you are totally dead wrong there... it has been done and many times I might add. So many times its not even funny... you had Vincent Price Haunted Hayrides, Silo-X, something that Ron Howard tried, Steve Kopleman has opened in many cities at once multiple times. When you look at things like Six Flags essentially same thing, and FYI I have even done haunts in multiple cities at once. And just so we are perfectly clear the biggest and most successful franchise of the haunted nature is the Jaycees this is bigger than anyone could EvER hope to achieve.

          The guys from Indy Scream Park opened another location in Tampa last year, and the list goes on and on! This is nothing new what is interesting is can you make it work or not so far no one has been able to do it long term. And I'll tell you why... running haunts required way to much boots on the ground.

          I have three haunts in one city and its overwhelming. Its hard and without good people it will be hard to grow bigger and bigger... yet again I give those guys all the credit for being successful but that is NOT the future of the industry. You are essentially implying this is the future meaning this is what everyone is going to be doing expanding across the country.

          FALSE! I don't see that as the future of haunting. In fact I can see a future where there are NO MORE haunted houses within 10 years.

          Technology is going to dictate the future... technology that NO ONE in this industry can develop. Haunts are also NOT economy proof, meaning something bad happens like a war, total meltdown of our economy and we are probably going to be left hurting with our industries outrageous high prices. I'll go one further depending on who becomes President and wages get hiked to $15.00 hour how would that impact our industry? negative without any doubts and cost of living will skyrocket, and many jobs will be lost it could actually double unemployment.

          You can't predict these things so when you talk about future let me tell you the future is RIGHT NOW!

          You could die in a car crash two weeks from now... your future is TODAY! You have to make money and be successful TODAY!

          Period!

          Again you are so dead wrong!

          And BTW, you just proved my point yet again. Because you don't know the past its hard to understand the future. Silo-X was a BIG and I mean a REALLY big operation they had haunts in like 12 cities at once not that many years ago... it all crumbled to the ground but because you don't learn from the past you can't understand the future. Its not wise to say these guys or that guy is the past and this is the future... simply unwise.

          Larry
          Larry Kirchner
          President
          www.HalloweenProductions.com
          www.BlacklightAttractions.com
          www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
          www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

          Comment


          • #6
            This seems to be more like the OLD Larry talking. How old are you now? Just kidding. I have always enjoyed your 'sermons' because they are always filled with a lot of history and knowledge. It has taken me a few minutes no make that 30 minutes to read these two posts but I actually agree with you. Thanks for your time and comments based on the passion alone I'll sign up for that seminar today. It's really interesting to hear people talk about what is or isn't the future of the industry. I tend to agree with your last comment there which is the future is right this second. I couldn't agree more on that comment. Who ever thought Blockbuster video would go out of business? It can happen in a blink of an eye. So with that being said I agree with you. The future is right now so maybe I better get back to work!

            Comment


            • #7
              Very interesting discussion guys.

              I'd like to second the request to consider video recording of some of these sessions. I'm deeply interested to hear what larry and others have to say on the future of the business, but unfortunately, it's logistically simply impossible for me to make the international trip for Transworld this year. I'm going to raise hell to try and get there next year, but in the mean time I'm sure there's many other interstate and international haunters who would pay to hear these classes but are unable to travel for various reasons and would love this kind of info now.

              Understand if it's not possible of course, but if there's some way, please think about it

              Comment


              • #8
                The value of a seminar depends on where you are in your haunt career and what you are trying to achieve with your business or attraction. If you think the folks on this panel have nothing to share that might help your business move forward then you shouldn't go. Personally I find inspiration everywhere, an example is some of the creative work I see Home Haunters producing every year, absolutely amazing stuff.

                But this panel in particular will have a strong focus on business and where the industry is headed. If you want to know where something is going there is no better way that starting with people who have been there. Even better is to have multiple perspectives and observations, as I am sure some of these folks will have differing ideas on how to get it right, and where it is headed next.

                When looking for a consultant, the best start is to find a person who is successful in the area you wish to improve in. The problem is these sorts of people are often not available to consult, that is why at least gaining insight at a panel like this can be very valuable.

                I am looking forward to this seminar myself, not only to teach, but more some to learn from these haunters that I am honored to share a stage with!

                That said I will be working on questions for the panel the next few days - eager to hear what topics you would all like covered.

                Thanks!
                Ben Armstrong
                NETHERWORLD HAUNTED HOUSE
                www.Fearworld.com
                www.NetherworldNetwork.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  "Absurd"

                  Jake,

                  This thread just happened to come across my desk this morning. First, I'm not sure we have met, but perhaps we can meet at the haunt show this year. I'm certain that your opinions and comments are not based on what you actually know, but what you have either heard or just think. I'm grateful to Larry for coming to my and the others' defense...but I do understand why you and probably many others are wondering why I am back and on a panel about the Future of Haunting? To explain, first, I have agreed to and am honored to accept a Lifetime Achievement Award from the HAA and have a small meet and greet booth at Transworld this year. Second, while I was there, I wanted to offer any help or expertise I could add that may be of value to the haunters at the show. I knew the title of the panel would be a stretch for me to have some current relevance and value on, but that said, I believe, for many reasons, I still can and do. My insight and advice come from being a visionary, a creator, a businesswoman, a strategic thinker and having pioneered and been very successful in the haunt industry for over 25 years, not a haunt tour I took in October, frankly, for no real reason other than to see some friend's haunts and celebrate their success with them.

                  The one thing that gets me every time though is the comments on how I had such an advantage or somehow my connections with Hollywood made me successful. This couldn't be farther from the truth! My friends in Hollywood were just that, friends. They generously donated props to me and occasionally came as my guest to apply some make-ups, teach an acting class or the like. But it is totally absurd to suggest or think that those contributions somehow created two massively successful haunted attractions that grew over 27 years from 200 to 70,000 customers and $1.5 million dollars worth of ticket sales "10 years ago", that won dozens of awards for our business model, our youth programs, our marketing campaigns, our set designs, makeup effect school, costumes, etc. and transformed thousands of people's lives who were involved. All that success came from being raised by a brilliant creator and successful entrepreneur and then working nearly every day for 20 + years, creating and designing, building and implementing successful models and practices and then doing it all over again, year after year, and frankly, when I decided to close my show, I felt like I was just getting started! No amount of "connections" could create that type of long term growth, success and have that kind of impact. It is unfair of you or anyone else to take those hard earned achievements away from my staff and me or frankly, anyone who has ever been through the same 20 year journey and created their own hard earned success story. And the future, for someone who has actually done that, is not all that hard to talk about or predict. In fact, I have designs and plans from 20 years ago that I am still not seeing in the haunt industry today.

                  Again, I do hope we get a chance to meet and talk. I'd like to hear about your business. And if there is any way I can help you with your haunt's future, I look forward to it.

                  See you then,

                  Cydney Neil



                  Originally posted by Deathwing View Post
                  Larry,

                  I meant no disrespect to you or anyone. The point I was making is that the name of the seminar refers to the future of the industry and to me, it appears that the 13th floor group is the future. They represent what's next instead of what's existed up until this point, those guys are going to dominate the industry nationally and no one has done what they are doing in the past that I know of. Everyone know the other 4 and knows they are/were industry leaders but I think for the most part they have peaked, with you being the exception perhaps due to your expanding next year and you are the top dog in the industry overall and you run the best magazine.
                  It's no disrespect at all, but Cydney talking about the future of haunted houses because she went to a bunch this year is as absurd as having Leonard Pickle on as an expert on the future of haunting. She was a legend, I went to Rocky point at least 5 times when it was open. But she did have something the majority of us didn't band that was connections in hollywood and she acquired props and set pieces and even talent that someone in say, Idaho, could never get. She was in the perfect position to be highly successful and she did an amazing job.

                  Jake

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Future of Haunting

                    Hi,

                    I just created a Facebook page called The Future of Haunting. I am honored to be on a panel with Larry Kirchner, Ben Armstrong, Randy Bates and Chris Stafford at the upcoming Transworld Haunted Attractions Show titled, The Past, Present and Future of Haunting. I, obviously, fit into the, not to be discounted, past section! I thought that creating this page and starting a conversation would be more valuable than a handout. I'll post my insights as well as a bunch of articles I've read recently on the future of not just haunting, but business, marketing, VR, etc. and comment as much as possible. Please feel free to post your own insights, information, questions and comments. See you all soon! Cydney Neil

                    https://www.facebook.com/The-Future-...0708981183211/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Deathwing View Post
                      Cydney Neil? Didn't her haunt Rocky Point close down in Utah like 10 years ago? You have 4 of the past leaders but only one representing the future of the industry in the 13th Floor guys, they are becoming the leaders of the industry. Maybe next year it'd be great to get some new blood to talk about where they want to take the haunted house business.

                      Jake
                      OK... the "future of haunting" might involve interactive games/challenges/competitions (paintball, laser tag, obstacle course, or something not invented yet). Probably also virtual reality, augmented reality, holograms, and possibly using implants (which everyone will already have) to temporarily modify customers' brainwaves. I think there is likely to be a reality TV/Vine/social media real-time video aspect too. But those are all GUESSES.

                      I will concede that nobody can accurately predict the future, because the future is unknown. With that being said, I know there is a tremendous amount that most any haunter could learn from ALL of the people who are on the "future of haunting" panel! You categorize them as "past leaders", but all (with he exception of Cydney) are CURRENT leaders in the industry, and current industry leaders should have decent guesses as to where the industry is headed (or at least a better guess than most).

                      You have a point that perhaps Cydney Neil doesn't belong on a "future of haunting" panel, but she still has a lot of haunt knowledge that the average haunter does not have, and most haunters would be fortunate to hear her speak about haunting.
                      Haunt: DARK REALMS

                      Day job: Game Composer/Sound Designer

                      My "geek rock" band: Legendary nOObs

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not interested in a two hour long discussion. It shouldn't be that long. I think if you are having trouble selling tickets its because the length not the title. No seminar should be more than an hour or 90 minutes. I'm not buying a ticket.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just read that the 13th floor group bought the legendary Terror on the Fox in Wisconsin. At this rate we will all be working for the 13th Floor guys in 5 years!

                          Jake

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And that will be the future of haunting. If giant entertainment corporations find out real money can be made in running haunted houses they will crowd out the small independents and everybody will be working for Disney or their like.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How does buying Terror on the Fox mean anything its in a super small market, its like 8 square feet big, I mean seriously. I don't mean to be disrespectful because that isn't my point, my point is who cares. There are like 2000 plus haunted houses out there and we are all going to be working for someone because they have like 7 haunts or something... you've got issues.

                              Look at hauntworld there are THOUSANDS of attractions on this website and shock waves are going thru the industry because someone bought one of the smallest haunted houses in the industry in a very tiny market. You know Mike who works for those guys helped start that haunt, so obviously he has some affection for the place... I say GOOD FOR THEM! I say KUDOS... great awesome but that doesn't mean we are going to be working for them not by a LONG SHOT!

                              What you are saying is just ridiculous! I think once again this has NOTHING to do with the topic ... the future of haunting isn't to have some national chain of haunts they always FAIL! And to keep the record straight I'm not saying 13th Floor will fail they are still small 7 or so haunts... but to say what you are saying that we'll all be working for them that is truly coast to coast and that would fail and its not going to happen is what I'm saying. What those guys have done is great they have a good business but I doubt they are thinking along your lines and no one else is either. Its absurd to make those statements.

                              I know more about this than anyone... I've worked with FEC industry for 20 years and every single chain failed when they tried to get too big. They all come crashing down. Haunted houses in my opinion are not something you can't franchise or create a chain of say 20 or 30 markets across America. This industry is way to volatile for that to happen... and I mean they come and go way too often and right now we are seeing the most amazing amount of change that we've ever seen.

                              The whole entire industry could be belly up within 10 years ... one major recession and we could see 50% of the haunts CLOSE and never come back. You are seeing all kinds of new competition enter the market place that are NOT actually haunts but some spin off of a haunted house. As I stand here today I do NOT see the haunt industry lasting another 20 years and could be less than 10 years. Technology, trends, habits, appeal is simply changing way to fast right now to predict ANYTHING. I say every haunt should think about TODAY RIGHT NOW and do as good as you can THIS SECOND and not focus on the future peruse. I'll state right now I don't think the topic is a good one either and honestly the seminar should have just been a q/a with very successful haunt owners.

                              The future is NOT 10 years from now its RIGHT FREAKING NOW! So if you come to this seminar I won't be talking about ANYTHING BUT RIGHT FREAKING NOW! THE SMART HAUNTER IS DOING THE FOLLOWING:

                              BUY PROPERTY and utilize that property for your attractions. Fix up that property make it appealing, pay off that property, and when your haunt hits the end of the road your retirement is that property. You can always fall back on owning property. If you lease and rent there is no future for you when the business finally goes south. So take advantage of your business, buy buy buy and retire that debt and when you're done hopefully your property has skyrocketed in value. That is smart business.

                              Larry
                              Larry Kirchner
                              President
                              www.HalloweenProductions.com
                              www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                              www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                              www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                              Comment

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