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  • I've Finally Had Enough

    Are Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com really about helping the Industry or is the management of each site really only concerned about their own pocketbooks? I’ve been silent about this for long enough, but now I must speak out. I just want to let everyone know that I have been personally blackballed from obtaining paid advertising on both sites.

    Larry K. said on behalf of HauntedHouseOnline.com (a site owned by Hauntworld.com): “I will not sell you a featured banner. Its nothing personal but I have a directory and I don't want to send people to another directory. Hopefully you understand. If you want to buy a featured banner then you'll need to trade banners with scarefest.(a haunt outside of Illinois, thus outside of the scope of HauntedIllinois.com’s directory) ”. Sorry Larry, I won’t be blackmailed in such a way. My website promotes Illinois Haunts. Move your Haunt across the state line and we’ll talk!

    In a telephone conversation with one of the owners of HauntedHouse.com, I was told that I would no longer be able to retain my paid ad in the Illinois section of their directory because I am considered “competition” by the ownership of the website.

    Since when did I become a threat?!? I promote Haunted Houses, for Christ’s sake!!!! How is that a bad thing?!?!

    If you’ll excuse my anger and general negative attitude, this is total bull crap. Every season I bust my butt to help the industry. Over the past seven years, I have spent countless hours creating the most comprehensive online directory of Illinois Haunted Attractions that exists ANYWHERE. And it isn’t just a directory that just lets the event listings roll over every year, so it appears to be bigger than everyone elses. I also drive thousands of miles every season to review Haunts in Illinois, at my own expense, just so the general public is more informed.

    I usually don’t throw stones, but I’ve finally had enough. Why have I been banned from advertising on these sites? Who is here to help the Industry and who is here to line their own pockets or pat their own egos?

    I know what side I am on. I love going to Haunted Houses and I will continue to promote Illinois Haunts, regardless of who blackballs me from their sites, feeling that I may steal valuable traffic from their website. I’m all about promoting Haunts and will always be. Screw profits. I don’t have any. I don’t have an expense account. I go to Haunt conventions and drive to review Haunts out of my own pocket. I do what I do for the love of Haunts and no other reason! I just think it’s really unfair that I am not allowed to advertise on these “big-time” sites because the management seems to look at me as a threat for some odd reason. Go figure!
    Happy Haunting,

    Adam Drendel
    Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

    Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213

  • #2
    Adam,

    I have to admit you're acting like a total baby on this matter...

    I guess HauntedHouse.com recently informed you that you couldn't advertise and this set you off...BIG DEAL MAN!

    I told like a year ago you couldn't advertise on my site and for GOOD REASON... YOU ARE NOT A HAUNTED HOUSE!

    Our directory is for people who own haunted houses NOT people who own and operate their own paid directory.

    You talk about doing it for the love, then don't charge people for featured ads on your website. I'm NOT going to direct people who come to my website to your website, c'mon now! Get real!

    Let me tell you something Adam, I've tried to reason with you for years, about my haunted houses should be listed on your site. You WILL NOT allow us to list on your site...why?

    St. Louis is yeah a city with about 300,000 people in it...but the St. Louis metro area is about 2.8 million people and about 1 million of those people come from an area refered to as SOUTHERN ILLINOIS! Your GOVENOR comes to St. Louis often beacuse he has to get ON ST. LOUIS TV, PRINT AND RADIO to reach those 1 million people from your state.

    Last night we have the braggin rights game Missouri vs. Illinois which every year is held at our arena, half Mo fans and Ill fans. Your second biggest college SIUE and SIUC is in our market. SIUC the second biggest basketball program is in the MISSOURI VALLY CONFERENCE and they play their league tourny in ST. LOUIS!!!

    Anyway I've tried to relay this message to you for years, that you're not serving your visitors well, when they can't find haunts closest to them...IE Southern Ill would be looking for haunts in Southern ILL/St. Louis.

    At any rate your rules forbid any haunts that are not located in YOUR state...okay. Fine...I don't agree but fine!

    Those are YOUR rules, its your website...

    So now you want to whine and moan because two website won't let you advertise, and link to your paid listing website?

    Somehow it sounds unfair to you that you can have your rules, but other website can't have their rules?

    Tell me how this seems unfair to you?

    Larry
    Larry Kirchner
    President
    www.HalloweenProductions.com
    www.BlacklightAttractions.com
    www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
    www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Adam,

      Lastly, you may notice on our website it states our policy and this has been up since day one...no blackmail involved. Just our policy! I will paste it for you...again we have our rules and you have yours. Sorry but we will not allow your advertisement, just as we wouldn't allow one from hauntedhouse.com or anyone else.

      We've worked very hard and spent a lot of money to get into the position we are in right now. We do help the industry every single year with free listings, free information, free articles, links and more. I don't know what else I can do or more I can do than I already do...

      You charge for listings on your site, good for you...but you can't pay us a couple hundred bucks and expect us to send you all of our ILL traffic it doesn't work that way.

      People in your state are paying us to send THEM traffic not your website ... which just gives them even more options. We're being PAID to help a specific haunt and steer what we can do them directly.

      How you think we're blackballing or whatever you is OUTRAGOUS!

      Stated below is our policy on the website...

      If I own my own haunted house search website can I purchase a featured listing?
      Good question and the answer is NO! If your site is NOT a haunted house you CAN NOT purchase a listing. All featured banners are reserved for haunted house owners ONLY. You may attempt to purchase one but your purchase will be declined. If we do allow you to purchase a featured link it will be no higher than the fifth link and only with permission prior to purchase.


      Again we have OUR OWN RULES ADAM as DO YOU...so stop crying about it! Outside of that you do a good job for your state, so good for you! I hope you do everything you can now and into the future to continue to help the haunts in your state any and every way you possible can!

      Larry
      Larry Kirchner
      President
      www.HalloweenProductions.com
      www.BlacklightAttractions.com
      www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
      www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Adam,

        You're more than welcome to advertise in Hauntworld Magazine, as is HauntedHouse.com or anyone else for that matter including Hauntcon, which they have already, or anyone else for that matter.

        We dont' blackball advertisers no matter if they're our competition or not...I will let Leonard Pickel buy every ad in the whole magazine if he so wishes!!! If HauntedHouse.com wants to buy an ad and proclaim they're the best way to find haunts, they're free to do so!

        But OUR HAUNTED HOUSE DIRECTORY IS JUST THAT... a Haunted House Directory! Your website is not a haunted house, your website is a paid listing for haunted houses, and an online store.

        I will NOT allow Scarefactory to put a banner in the haunted house directory, Transworld, or anyone who's NOT a haunted house.

        Why you think thats blackballing I do not know...personally I think you should let the steam of HauntedHouse.com knocking off your ad cool off and rethink what your post. When you've cooled off you'll realize what you're saying is nothing more than sour milk and you just might retract your statements.

        Would Google put a link to MSN's search engine on their front page?

        Duh...LOL

        Larry

        PS: Just be happy that Illinois beat Missouri tonight and leave it at that!
        Larry Kirchner
        President
        www.HalloweenProductions.com
        www.BlacklightAttractions.com
        www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
        www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Since we're on the subject...

          How many times have we seen say Rotting Flesh Radio get onto our message boards and promote something on their site? How many times have we seen people get on here and say "Haunted Attraction Magazine is better than Hauntworld Magazine'. But I do not erase the posts. How many times have we seen people promote their new product, when they could be promoting in our magazine or paying us? How many times have we seen other people who start a haunted house website like 'MyHaunt' or whatever that was called get on these forums and promote their own website.

          Heck remember that one guy who was suppose to be the new voice of the industry...Leonard Pickel erased ALL OF HIS posts and promotions on Haunted Attraction, but I never once erased his posts. So what he starts a website and thinks its the next best thing. I don't care.

          Whatever helps the industry. These message boards are for peoples knowledge, be it RFR to promote themselves, or HauntedHouse.com for example to promote something they're doing, or even Hauntcon. I could care less if I like them don't like them.

          I think I've tried really hard to stand by this policy for the past 10 years! I think what RFR is doing is great and fun, I think that myhaunt website was a lot of work and pretty cool thing, and the list goes on. Let them promote until their heart turns to dust!

          Sometimes its very hard to watch, and yes I do have a limit. Jim O'Rear was a prime example, getting on here every single day to downgrade Hauntworld while promoting Halloween Nation. Yeah there was a limit and it was crossed and yeah I got sick of it...but even then I ignored it for atleast a month.

          Yes I am very opinionated, and some may not agree with them, but that doesn't stop you from having your opinion! I feel like this site is to help promote the whole industry like someone or not like someone.

          We've covered Hauntcon TWICE in our magazine! We have links to his magazine site in our yellow pages sections. What more can I say...the guy I can't stand the most and I still will print his press releases in our magazine, allow his advertisements, and links his magazine.

          It doesn't stop me as a single person with a single opinion to voice it...most people who come to this site don't even know we have anything to do with the site.

          But we do have limits and allowing NON Haunted houses spots on our directory is NOT serving the public or the haunts who pay for our listings.

          End of story!

          Outside of that I think we're very open to all!

          Larry
          Larry Kirchner
          President
          www.HalloweenProductions.com
          www.BlacklightAttractions.com
          www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
          www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by drfrightner
            Our directory is for people who own haunted houses NOT people who own and operate their own paid directory.
            If that is the case, why did you let me buy a featured banner in 2005, but this year you wouldn’t?

            Originally posted by drfrightner
            You talk about doing it for the love, then don't charge people for featured ads on your website.
            Then you shouldn't charge people a penny either, if you love the Industry so much. I charge for a select few featured ads to try and cover my expenses of going to conventions and driving thousands of miles to review haunts each year. Unfortunately, I still end up in the red at the end of the year. I don't make a cent.

            Originally posted by drfrightner
            Let me tell you something Adam, I've tried to reason with you for years, about my haunted houses should be listed on your site. You WILL NOT allow us to list on your site...why?
            You aren’t in Illinois, Larry. Duh! Look at a map. I must draw the line somewhere and that must be at the state line.

            Originally posted by drfrightner
            So now you want to whine and moan because two website won't let you advertise, and link to your paid listing website?

            Somehow it sounds unfair to you that you can have your rules, but other website can't have their rules?

            Tell me how this seems unfair to you?
            Well.. First of all, you are wrong. I don’t have a “paid listing website”. Only a few haunts pay for a featured listing. The rest of the Haunt listings (over 200 in Illinois) are completely FREE.

            I’ll tell you how it seems unfair. Both Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com let me purchase featured banners in 2005 and now they change their tune and won’t allow me to advertise.. somehow seeing me as some sort of threat.


            Originally posted by drfrightner
            Lastly, you may notice on our website it states our policy and this has been up since day one...no blackmail involved. Just our policy! I will paste it for you...again we have our rules and you have yours. Sorry but we will not allow your advertisement, just as we wouldn't allow one from hauntedhouse.com or anyone else.
            Well, you’re wrong again, Larry. You let me buy a Featured Banner in your Illinois section in 2005. So your policy has obviously changed since then (not in place since day one, as you put it!!!!).
            Happy Haunting,

            Adam Drendel
            Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

            Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213

            Comment


            • #7
              If that is the case, why did you let me buy a featured banner in 2005, but this year you wouldn’t?


              Response: I allowed you to buy slot #5, when we first started out, and it was a mistake. That year I only sold like 30 slots, this past year I sold almost 300. My job isn't to send people to another website to get lost in even more listings, my job is to steer people to actual haunted houses. Period!



              Then you shouldn't charge people a penny either, if you love the Industry so much. I charge for a select few featured ads to try and cover my expenses of going to conventions and driving thousands of miles to review haunts each year. Unfortunately, I still end up in the red at the end of the year. I don't make a cent.

              RESPONSE: I'm sure you don't make a cent, but you still charge. You have a paid directory, and I'm not sending my visitors to another paid directory. What you don't understand about that is crazy.




              You aren’t in Illinois, Larry. Duh! Look at a map. I must draw the line somewhere and that must be at the state line.

              RESPONSE: Again you have your rules, and even though I don't agree with them its your website. You have your rules so good for you, but what gives you the right to complain about other peoples rules? We have rules, you have rules, you have a website of paid haunts as do we...that is where it stays.



              Well.. First of all, you are wrong. I don’t have a “paid listing website”. Only a few haunts pay for a featured listing. The rest of the Haunt listings (over 200 in Illinois) are completely FREE.

              I’ll tell you how it seems unfair. Both Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com let me purchase featured banners in 2005 and now they change their tune and won’t allow me to advertise.. somehow seeing me as some sort of threat.

              RESPONSE: Adam, I let you buy an ad the first year, and then changed my mind when you tried to renew just after October 2005. I told you this a YEAR AGO...so now you want to cry about it. I can tell YOU WHY I changed my mind Adam...

              Because your listing was taking traffic away from other people who paid for a listing who owned a haunted house. My customers on my ILL page got fewer hits from me thanks to my stupidity in allowing you an ad.

              I do not fear your website, or feel you're a threat by any means. At Transworld I will be doing a seminar on advanced internet marketing...EVERYONE needs to attend this seminar.

              I drove OVER 200,000 VISITORS to www.Scarefest.com last season...If I thought you where a threat I wouldn't want on your website, I know your site could help my haunt, as does HauntedHouse.com, Horrorfind.com and the list goes on. They all help! I'm not blackballing you, or trying to do that...that is crazy!

              Haunts need to finally wake up to the potential of the web and depending on what state they're on specifically yours they should buy an ad from you. As I stated before good luck to your website, but you're not a haunted house, hense can't buy a featured ad. Again what you don't understand about that is beside me!





              Well, you’re wrong again, Larry. You let me buy a Featured Banner in your Illinois section in 2005. So your policy has obviously changed since then (not in place since day one, as you put it!!!!).


              RESPONSE: Adam as I already stated I allowed it the first year, but the policy states that you can not do it unless we approve it. I allowed it the first year and realized I made a mistake, and informed you in November 2005 you could not place another ad beacuse you're not a haunted house.

              End of story!

              Are you a haunted house?

              Should another haunted house directory being allowed to place listings and ads amoung other haunted houses? Thats crazy!

              Larry
              Larry Kirchner
              President
              www.HalloweenProductions.com
              www.BlacklightAttractions.com
              www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
              www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by drfrightner
                Should another haunted house directory being allowed to place listings and ads amoung other haunted houses?
                Absolutely! I have had a HauntWorld.com banner/link, along with a HauntedHouse.com banner/link at the bottom of my directory page since I’ve had the directory. I tell visitors of my site: “Click on the banners above for National Haunt Listings”

                Haunted Illinois Directory

                Why did I put your banners there for free all this time? Because I want to promote the Industry. If people can’t find what they are looking for at my site, I send them to yours or HauntedHouse.com. That way, everyone wins. Again, I think the important thing is promoting Haunts. ...not which site gets more web traffic.
                Happy Haunting,

                Adam Drendel
                Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

                Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213

                Comment


                • #9
                  Adam,
                  Not to be rude, but according to your post you were told pretty much
                  the same thing by two DIFFERENT Haunt directories (who don't usually
                  even see eye to eye.)

                  Both state they promote Haunted Houses, not other directories, correct?

                  You stated:
                  "Are Hauntworld.com and HauntedHouse.com really about helping the Industry or is the management of each site really only concerned about their own pocketbooks?."

                  I'm a little confused here? If they were only concerned about their pocketbooks wouldn't they BOTH have sold you banners????

                  You also stated:
                  "Over the past seven years, I have spent countless hours creating the most comprehensive online directory of Illinois Haunted Attractions that exists ANYWHERE... I'm all about promoting Haunts and will always be."

                  I have seen your site and no one denies you do a good job. I have a friend that lives in Carbondale, Illinois. An Illinois Haunted Directory does him and countless other people in Southern Illinois any good as Decatur, Springfield are hours away, Chicago is almost a day's drive, yet St. Louis is 5 minutes across the river.

                  People in the Quad cities may do more business in Iowa than in Illinois. It seems some people in Illinois would be better served if they knew about haunts across the street when that street is in another state as opposed to only in Illinois when it is across the state!

                  You draw a line at the state border, people don't STOP at the state line. Yet you yell at Larry when he states you are NOT a Haunt?


                  You seem to insinuate that these sites have a personal agenda. I don't see Hauntworld listed on HousedHouse.com? I don't see Hauntworld Magazine listed in Haunted Attraction Magazine? How is your situation different???
                  R&J Productions
                  Las Vegas, NV
                  www.LasVegasHaunts.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Q: I'm a little confused here? If they were only concerned about their pocketbooks wouldn't they BOTH have sold you banners????

                    A: NO. They have both expressed that they don’t want to sell a banner to the “competition”. They claim that HauntedIlinois.com is taking away valuable web traffic (their words, not mine).

                    Q: You seem to insinuate that these sites have a personal agenda. I don't see Hauntworld listed on HousedHouse.com? I don't see Hauntworld Magazine listed in Haunted Attraction Magazine? How is your situation different???

                    A: Well, the situation is different because both sites sold me ads in 2005. Now they have suddenly banned me from advertising. Their recent decision to ban me from advertising on their sites is the issue. Had they not allowed me to advertise in the first place, then I would have no reason to complain.
                    Happy Haunting,

                    Adam Drendel
                    Webmaster of http://www.HauntedIllinois.com

                    Visit us on Facebook for the latest updates! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Haunte...m/225595667213

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NO. They have both expressed that they don’t want to sell a banner to the “competition”. They claim that HauntedIlinois.com is taking away valuable web traffic (their words, not mine).
                      So I would take that as a compliment!

                      Well, the situation is different because both sites sold me ads in 2005. Now they have suddenly banned me from advertising. Their recent decision to ban me from advertising on their sites is the issue. Had they not allowed me to advertise in the first place, then I would have no reason to complain.
                      I have a sign posted in my ticket booth that states I reserve the right refuse service to anyone. I have sold people tickets, then refused to sell them another ticket the next week or the next season.

                      Just because you were sold an ad once, does not give you an unconditional right to continue purchasing. ANY business can reserve the right to refuse service period.

                      You yourself refuse to extend service citing a "rule" you yourself created.

                      If a haunt is legally in another state, yet a block away from your patrons is it not a disservice to your patrons NOT to list it???
                      R&J Productions
                      Las Vegas, NV
                      www.LasVegasHaunts.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Adam,

                        You say...

                        "I don't allow your events in my directory because they AREN'T IN
                        ILLINOIS." Move them across the state border and I'll list them.



                        Great...

                        I say...

                        Adam, YOUR NOT A HAUNTED HOUSE because a haunted house directory for haunts in one state is NOT a haunted house. Open a haunted house and I will kindly allow you to advertise.

                        Until then realize you're making a total fool of yourself!!!!!!!!!!

                        Finally to respond to your other comments...

                        You Said:

                        A: NO. They have both expressed that they don’t want to sell a banner to the “competition”. They claim that HauntedIlinois.com is taking away valuable web traffic (their words, not mine).

                        My Response: DON'T MAKE UP STORIES...DAMN YOU ARE ACTING LIKE A FIVE YEAR OLD HERE. I didn't say I wouldn't sell you advertisement because you're competition. I said I will NOT sell you advertisement because you are NOT A HAUNTED HOUSE...DUH!!!!!!!!!

                        Is anyone HOME??????? I will NEVER sell you advertisement on a haunted house directory, because you're not a HAUNTED HOUSE!!!!!!


                        You said:

                        A: Well, the situation is different because both sites sold me ads in 2005. Now they have suddenly banned me from advertising. Their recent decision to ban me from advertising on their sites is the issue. Had they not allowed me to advertise in the first place, then I would have no reason to complain.

                        MY RESPONSE:

                        DUH AGAIN...You use the word 'suddenly', and 'recent'... I thought I already refreshed your memory. You asked me in November of 2005, now remember we're only a few weeks from the start of 2007, okay for those that can't add thats three different years, I told you in NOVEMBER of TWO THOUSAND AND FIVE I would not allow you to advertise on my site again. NOT SUDDENLY, NOT RECENTLY, so get your facts straight.

                        Maybe HauntedHouse.com 'RECENTLY' or 'SUDDENLY" told you this but I told you in 2005... now you come out bitching.

                        I have links up for your website on my system, and I don't have a problem with links for your site, but you're NOT A HAUNTED HOUSE and YOU ARE NOT GETTING LISTED on ANY HAUNTED HOUSE DIRECTORY NOR ARE YOU BUYING AN AD. PERIOD!

                        You did NOT have an ad on our site in 2006, you're talking about 2005 over one year ago...so I would hardly call that suddenly, or recently. I think I was pretty clear that allowing your directory on our site is not something we're going to do because you're not a haunted house. Period.

                        As for Scarefest.com I do not need you to list me, at this point I don't care, and haven't asked you about it in over a year. My Scarefest.com website got almost or as much web traffic as your whole entire website. There are many ways to market on the web, your website would be another way to do that, however I'm not going to waste your time like you're doing today. When or if you ever decide to change your policy great, I'd like to look at it. But you changing your policy will have no bearing on me changing my policy.

                        You're not a haunted house and I won't allow another haunted directory to ever marketing their listings on my directory. Its just common sense!

                        So give it a rest!

                        Larry


                        Larry
                        Larry Kirchner
                        President
                        www.HalloweenProductions.com
                        www.BlacklightAttractions.com
                        www.HauntedHouseSupplies.com
                        www.HauntedHouseMagazine.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Adam, I guess I understand why Larry won't let you have a featured banner spot. I would not place a banner for our competition on a main page of our web site. However, HauntedIllinois.com does at least offer a spot for links to out of state haunts. Deadly has been listed there in the number one spot for some time. (Thanks Adam) I also noticed that Scarefest is listed there as well.

                          I am curious if Hauntedillinois.com would even be allowed to place a free link spot on the Illinois page of Hauntedhouseonline.com? That would seem fair to me. Or maybe at the bottom of the page were it states:

                          Did you find the haunted house you were looking for? If not we recommend two other haunted house directories. Try Hauntworld Directory which is the biggest and oldest haunted house directory or try hauntedhouses.us.

                          Why not just add HauntedIllinois.com to that paragraph? The same could be offered to other individual state haunt listing web sites. Even if there was a small fee to do so.

                          Just my thoughts,

                          Howie "Slobber" Erlich
                          Deadly Intentions Haunted House
                          www.deadlyintentionshaunt.com
                          Chris Riehl
                          Sales@spookyfinder.com
                          (586)209-6935
                          www.spookyfinder.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In the spirit of Christmas..wasn't it the old "Miracle On 47th Street" classic Christmas movie where "Santa" amazed the customers at "his" store by telling people to try the competition's store just down the street? that "Macy's" -"Gimbel's" sort of thing?
                            In the end everybody "won" and could feel bettter about life and themselves..........
                            Merry Christmas everyone!

                            "Shut Up Tiny Tim or I'll sick the termites on your crutch!"

                            "Bah Humpbug!"
                            hauntedravensgrin.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have to admit that if I were using hauntworld's find haunted house option to look for a haunt in my state, I wouldn't want my time being wasted being redirected to another find haunted house website. Also I wouldn't want non-haunted houses sites being allowed to possibly buy up one of my states featured ads and possibly prevent me from buying one. It is a FIND HAUNTED HOUSES directory, not a directory for finding other directories. Seems pretty reasonable to only allow haunted houses to buy or place ads in a find haunted houses directory. Personally I think it is pretty nice of Larry to at least allow competitors to purchase ad spots in his magazine.
                              Jared Layman

                              Comment

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