What do "you" think?

[Greg Chrise]

I think there IS different expectation by customers deciding to go to a pro haunt vs. a charity haunt.

Competative pro haunts are spending $100,000 to $250,000 per year on upgrading, getting on Good morning America claiming a technical arms race of animatronic props. Charity haunts have actors fighting over three year old latex masks that I'm not real sure if anyone ever washed them or not.

One industry observer is wandering around saying that charities are history and these high dollar attractions are what the industry is today. Of course his attraftion is exactly like mine so he might be jealous.

You don't get 80 moving displays in a $10 charity haunt that starts out with little or no budget. You get a stuffed cat that comes at you on a string. Even the really big charity haunts will rely on 75 volunteer actors and no animatronics. A pro haunt is making the decision of whether the props are cheaper than the labor or more effective. If the labor is realatively free all the money goes to the charity rather than an animatronic company.

[Jim Warfield]

As far as simply monetary considerations go in owning your own haunted business and the like, it wasn't that many years ago that everytime Jan. and Feb. rolled around I would find myself second-guesing myself as to why I spent all that money on advertising in the fall?
I decided I would rather have that same dollar in my hand come Jan. & Feb., so that is where that dollar stayed. Business didn't decrease in the fall at all and I had a nicer financial cushion in the winter.
How much do I spend on advertising per/customer?
Very, very little. Another advantage to being in the same location and being open year-round.
Becoming self-employed is wonderfull if you can afford it.
A few years ago I heard that the state that has the most of it's citizens self-employed is also the state that leads all others in the smallest percentage of it's population having medical insurance. Could there be a financial correlation? I sure think so.
Send me money, lots of it, today! And I will tell you where to find money anytime you need it! (look under "M" in the dictionary!) Duh!?

[Greg Chrise]

Once or twice a year we go through this with someone new to the boards not knowing what resource level they are going to start out at.

Jim Warfied usually starts out with just find an open field and dig a grave and tell a story about it.

I usually start assuming and then some kid claims to be a major land barron or owns a major mall somewhere and is highly offended by my crap.

So in retrospect if you are going to have a pro haunt. You need to go with animatronics and attend Transworld. If you are going charity you better start weaseling everyone.

[Greg Chrise]

I just figured out you can say bullshit on here and it doesn't get turned into we love jesus!

Life is good.

[Jim Warfield]

But Gregg, you darn well that Jesus WILL make you pay for taking "Bullshit" in vein, as explained thoroughly and often by someone that you know well.
(Would a screwgun and screws keep her coffin lid closed better?)

[Greg Chrise]

Nope, she is a force to be reconned with. Today I was told she could still "take" me and put a bar of soap in my mouth for saying one bad word.

Later on I heard her say freakin and said ooowww that's a bad word and she proclaimed it wasn't.

[Greg Chrise]

I might have to move her to one of the metal coffins. The one near the welder.

[Jim Warfield]

"Do as I say, Don't Do as I do."
13th commandment?
Everyone lives by the 11th and the 12th, no need going into them here.

[Greg Chrise]

And we might be running low on soap pretty soon.

[Jim Warfield]

Its just a waiting game. soap goes in one end , comes out the other, eventually.

[Greg Chrise]

I think I'm going to need a coffin all triangular made out of 3/8 inch steel with a submerged arc bead on every seam. Then put it in one of those booby trapped rooms like in the movie Dracula 2000.

[Empressnightshade]

But, I'm assuming in order to reach your goals it has been a sacrifice of majorly you and your family. That most of the physical haunt and has come from your investment?

Greg, if you have ever told the truth, you definitely told it then. Sacrifice is a word that describes what I've had to do when it comes to keeping the nonprofit going and making The Scream Extreme a reality. BUT, I knew it would be tough...at least the first five years. We're at year number three.

Empress -- What you do is wonderful and I have nothing but the utmost respect for you. That said, please don't minimize all the good things accomplished by the non 501(c) haunts in this industry. Many, many for profit haunts give a significant amount of their proceeds to charity. It is one of the few industries where so many of the businesses are so generous. I think it all goes back to the roots of the industry being born in mainly charity haunts. I hope that the majority of haunts continue to do so. I know that I will. It is, in many ways, having the best of both worlds.

Dave

Dave, I don't believe that I was minimizing anyone who gives. But, if it sounded as such, it was not my intention. Anyone who gives from their heart holds a special place in mine.

Competative pro haunts are spending $100,000 to $250,000 per year on upgrading, getting on Good morning America claiming a technical arms race of animatronic props. Charity haunts have actors fighting over three year old latex masks that I'm not real sure if anyone ever washed them or not.
You don't get 80 moving displays in a $10 charity haunt that starts out with little or no budget. You get a stuffed cat that comes at you on a string. Even the really big charity haunts will rely on 75 volunteer actors and no animatronics. A pro haunt is making the decision of whether the props are cheaper than the labor or more effective. If the labor is realatively free all the money goes to the charity rather than an animatronic company.

WHAT??? See, it's this idea of charity haunts that I totally want to change! Nope, we don't have the big bucks. Yup, we started on a shoestring budget, but please tell me you think I have more haunted intelligence than to try to scare people with a "stuffed cat that comes at you on a string???" You really don't think that just because we're called a charity haunt, that we have no animatronics and "actors fighting over three year old latex masks that I'm not real sure if anyone ever washed them or not?" COME ON! That is soooooo stereotypical! :evil:

Ya know....I think the reason our customers have such a good time at our haunts is because we suprise them. We deviated from their preconceived ideas of what a charity haunt is. We're not nearly where I desire us to be. No way! I look at Netherworld, The Darkness, TOTF, Dream Reapers...Oh, heck..who am I kidding....I LOOK AT ALL OF YOU and say to myself, "Will we EVER get there like them?" There's so much more yet to learn which is why I come to HauntWorld. But, is my constant looking, comparing and placing my haunt below those I've named good for us? Is it giving my charity haunt a chance to flourish on it's own? To be what it was meant to be?

With that said, what I'm going to do is unsubscribe from this thread after I post this reply. It has touched a nerve and something within me that I know I can never get across to anyone unless they are in the same boat as I.

Mr. Haunt, good luck in your decision to go profit or nonprofit. I came here to give the side of nonprofit and I've done that. Now, if you will excuse me......

[Mr Nightmarez]

:shock: :shock: I'm almost afraid to answer, but I will tell my history.

I started out charity 100% Yes I gave it all away. :wink:

I use to be on the Volunteer Event Committee for 2 charities. I Chaired several events and finally brought up doing a haunt. Because of my long history w/ the charity they agreed. They got the space donated, I hooked up w/ 2 sponsors $10k and I put in about $10k of my own money on props etc.
My deal was that all expenses to be reimbursed and they get the rest!
So in reality I was getting all the props, for putting on the event. (So in reality I got paid)
I did this for 3 years and it worked well. We raised over $70k in three years. I had a lot of props, walls etc. (So I had to buy storage and Trailers)
Our 3rd year the charity backed off their support. They did not advertise or bring in the volunteers that were wrote in during our initial agreement. I met w/ them and decided to spend my money on advertising and I had to beg and drag kids to help keep the show alive.
After year 3 the charity board of directors tried to do a hostile take over. The original board was gone that I did the deal with and this board saw there biggest fund raiser being ran by someone outside.
Needless to say I was easily able to find a new charity and the old charity lost $20+k a year!
We have worked great w/ the new charity (and we worked in a 15% clause to help buy new props each season and pay for awards etc.) We were unable to open last year - the charity promised a spot and came up short - they located a spot - but not until Sept 20th (NO WAY) So we focused on 2 profit haunts/consulting last season. This Season we return w/ the charity (we are meeting w/ them soon) to re-negotiate a long term contract and probably increase our portion to 20%-25% to keep up w/ the profit haunts in the area. We will still be donating over $20k per year...

I could not afford to do a haunt on my own. The free spaces, advertising, volunteer staff are priceless! Our volunteer staff can literally run circles around my paid staff... why - because they love what they do - my paid staff 1/2 do it for the $$.

Working w/ a charity can be beneficial if you believe in the cause and you have a contract stating the length of the agreement and percentages involved. (I actually did a seminar on this @ Hauntcon a few years ago and talked to Leonard about bringing it back this year in Detroit)

I have been involved w/ charity way before haunts and I love being able to give back to the community. Our Halloween Store donates costumes every year to less fortunate kids and this year our profit haunt will do a 2 day charity event where the charity receives every $$ made. (No it's not opening weekend!) :shock:

I would prefer a Charity Haunt over a profit haunt any day... But the reality of me wanting to quit my day job has me using sources to make enough 'profit' so I can continue both ventures. Charity haunting and Profit Haunting.

One last word of advice - When working w/ a charity make a foothold on where your money is to be used. Our first charity pulled our money into the budget and portions were used for salaries etc. - :roll: We now focus our money on programs and building funds etc. so it can not be "wasted" as some Management persons bonus... (I do understand they need salaries, but take a close look at the percentage that goes to salaries w/ your charities... you might see there are some charities that focus over 40% of money donated toward that...)

**Everything above is OPINIONS only** Please feel frre to e-mail me if you have an issue or want to know more.

Thanks!
Todd
www.hauntedweb.com

[Spookyfinder]

I worked my first 13 years in the business at a charity haunt. Yes it's true that we had only a shoestring budget. We had to be very creative with our scares and had to rely on the actors to do a good job. It was a very good show and one of the most popular haunts in the area for many years.

5 years ago I opened my "for profit" haunt Deadly Intentions, once again on a shoestring budget. We have a great haunt that is very well attended and loved by our customers.

I do not spend 100k - 250k per year on upgrading and I never will. In fact, we have only purchased one inexpensive animatronic over the years. We have made a couple of animated props ourselves though.

Our haunt in many ways resembles the charity haunt I started out at. We rely on a creative cast and crew to come up with original characters and scares in our haunt. We have created a very intense, old school haunted attraction that our customers have appreciated since our first year. We change everything in our haunt every year so that our customers have a completely fresh, new show to look forward to every season.

There are a couple of haunts in the area that have put hundreds of thousands of dollars into their haunts. We hear comments from our customers that those shows are pretty to look at but have very little "scare factor." I am not knocking the other haunts. I have been through their attractions several times and I think they are amazing in their design. But customers want a variety of haunts to choose from. Over the years, we have been honored with high reviews and awards from several independent local haunt review web sites and media sources. Even receiving the highest ranking in the state from the most respected review site the last 2 seasons. That's as high or higher ranking than the houses who did spend a fortune on their shows. Our best recognition is from our loyal customers who have voted us the scariest haunted house in Metro Detroit the last 4 years in a row.

I guess all I am saying is that whether you are a charity or for profit haunted attraction, you don't have to spend a million dollars to put on a great show. Just be creative, hire good people to work with and treat them well, do the right amount of advertising and make sure to give your customers a fun night of entertainment, and you can have a successful event without breaking your wallet.

Just my 2 or 3 cents,

Howie "Slobber" Erlich
Deadly Intentions Haunted House
www.deadlyintentionshaunt.com

[Jim Warfield]

I could never have broken my wallet here at the Ravens Grin Inn because I didn't have the money to finance a wallet search using a rented electron microscope!
Fish line, old hinges, old springs, stuff built using very old materials, scrap metal cut from old appliances, pop-riveted to make a bigger piece of metal, dryer lint, (Faux-mouse covering)I used brand new garbage bages to scare with, one Dixie cup prop was finally replaced for me by a concerned repeat customer who really wanted to do something "nice" for me.
Somehow, someway I have managed to entertain , and sometimes frighten enough people that I made a business here.
Working at this one day at a time,one nail or screw installed at a time, one small shovel of dirt dug at a time to make an impressive exit tunnel from the basement.
What is having a haunt worth to you?
It will still require "work" no matter how much money that you might borrow from Gret-Grandma's purse!
36 years ago, last December I was living in a concrete tube under a county highway, I didn't like it much.
I was walking many cold miles to the discount grocery store looking for the old-priced cans of soup at the back of the shelf, living on $3.00 a week for food was also no fun.
Now that some of you have had a good laugh, guess what? This is all true.
No fiction.