Did anyone see this... yet another new haunted house show

[screamforadream]

Hey John, they aren't idiots lol don't get me back I'm trouble! Hahaha, everyone has an opinion, it isn't that serious.

And you're completely right Dewayne!

As for the worth of tours, YES it is suppose to be educational, BUT I've done a LOT of free tours, and will give ANY haunter my full knowledge in a heartbeat And I won't charge extra for it! If I ever opened up fr a tour, I'd charge my normal price if I had to staff it, or free if I didn't. Although I only use volunteers, I always feed them, and spoil them rotten with water, cough drops, and candy lol so they'd get the same treatment.

Yes this is a business, and it needs to be profitable at all costs in order to have a good time and grow, but we can't take more from our fellow industry workers to better ourselves otherwise we'll never grow.

Whenever I have done a show, it's made a profit in year one, then doubled attendance year two (which every haunt should do) and then a slower exponential growth onwards. With my own now, I hope to do even better but time will tell (still trying to find a way to not sell lol).

Bottom line, trade shows are a sign of growth, and a place to learn, buy and network, there is no reason to jump up the price of anything just because it's "educational", and you don't need to do major renovations either, cause the hundreds of people from the surrounding states probably never saw your how anyway so renovating it wouldn't really affect the opinions of those who go through and then you don't have to hike the price up to make your "buddies" help eat the cost of your itchy trigger finger lol.

[drfrightner]

Bobby,

If I go to Legendary Haunt Tour and btw I just looked TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY FIVE DOLLARS PER TICKET... while at the same time a ticket to 13th Gate this Halloween season is (DRUM ROLL PLEASE $25.00). I didn't bother to look up House of Shock but I'm sure its in line what everything else so hmmm... that is a HUGE difference in price normal season and haunt season. But am I bitching, crying and ripping on them for it... NO because I unlike other don't see it the way you and many others do.

You can't complain about the price of something you don't buy, you don't attend, or something you consider to be to much for what is offered. That is NO different than you saying the cost of a new Corvette is too much money... so then go buy a Ford Escort. They don't drive the same FYI! LOL

The bottom line and I'm sure we all agree we are way off subject here... but I wanted to say I'm not posting all this because I'm defending haunt tours in general no no no ... I'm pointing out how narrow minded people really are. When you sit and wonder why is Netherworld doing 80,000 people and you are doing 8,000 people why is that? Are they better than you? Can they buy something from a vendor you can't buy? Do they have access to some secret sauce that no one else can obtain?

The answer is NO NO and NO AGAIN!

The difference is a very successful haunt operation will spend a lot of money on knowledge, they will hire people to do things for them and pay good money for it while other people say the same old thing 'that is too much' or 'i can do that myself'. I hire all kinds of people to help me, very talented people, I like to work with talented people because that makes what we are trying to accomplish better!

Most of you guys are afraid to spend $3000 or even $10,000 on a good website, videos, photos or whatever, but won't hesitate to buy some broke in two seconds animation. That is why you struggle... you should be putting as much if not more money into the business side of the business and believe in the fact that it takes money to make money. Those willing to risk everything reap the highest rewards. Your approach of that is too much, but buying some half welded animation for $5000 isn't... again this is why most haunts struggle.

I know I'm talking up a tree and most dont' understand or are unwilling to accept the reality but again that is why someone starts Run for Your Life zombie runs and they gross like 750,000 to 1.5 million for a one day event, because they want to get it done they go all out. With my haunts I go all out... I've lost money yes, I've made mistakes but I've learned from them every step of the way. And just because one mistake might have cost me a lot of money doesn't make me afraid to try it again with a different approach.

When you understand this you will be able to really see your dreams come full circle!!!

As for my own personal haunt tours we charged basically double the normal season price and that isn't unfair what so ever... $50.00 per person to see the haunt with actors is nothing. That is TWO tickets for most of the haunters out there... and as for what everyone else charged or is charging MORE POWER TO THEM! They put themselves through unlimited amounts of stress for the haunt industry to run them over the coals I say more power to ya! Next time charge 5 times the normal season price, even if half the people come you'll gross the same and have half the people ripping your haunt on some message board.

Here is a line I just came up with ... because I do think almost everyone in this industry has tons of passion for it. This industry is so passion driven that drives us to all these different conclusions, differences, and debates, which btw are okay in my book. But I will say that Passion will get the door open, but understand Passion doesn't pay the bills! At the end of the day passion for haunting is great, but passion won't pay your marketing bills, your actors who will burn your house down for $10.00, or your rent or anything else. It's always great to turn a passion into a business, but it is indeed a buisness and with that you must remember you have responsiblities to everyone who works for you, companies you do business with and your guests... and unfortunatly all those things don't get done for nothing. No one should open their haunt to an entire group of people no matter who they are for nothing, to lose money, or even to break even... because that won't keep your passoin going to the next season. During the season we have tons of haunt owners who stop by to see us... and when I know they are coming we always let them in and do our best to talk to them. You always want to do everything you can for your fellow haunt owner and believe it or not that is exactly what this post is trying to do... help haunters understand the reality of this business.

Larry

[mindtumor]

Jared,

Any and all entertainment experiences are worth what you think they are worth... Kiss concert was getting $500 plus a ticket, a plunge down to see the Titanic will set you back $50,000 and the list goes on. But you are right as an educational experience these tours are worth every penny. If you don't agree your haunt is probably one of those haunts who do about 1000 people and open only on Halloween and your pissed because you can't figure out how to get over the hump with your own haunt. Wake up there is a way to get it done just start with not being sour 24/7. If this is what you want to do jump in with two feet and do everything you can to learn... buying some animation that will break the day after you buy it won't get more customers to your door!!! WILL NOT HAPPEN!

I'm not sure if you were saying I'm sour or other people are sour about prices. I can assure you I'm not sour or pissed about my haunt attendance, or the tour prices, or how much it costs to see the Titanic, lol. It can be tough to tell exactly what people mean from posts, but I wasn't being negative about costs just in case that wasn't taken correctly.

I'll clarify just in case my post was taken wrong. I don't think ANY of these tours are too expensive for what I believe they are. I have learned stuff the times I've paid for tours, and I will pay for tours in the future to learn things. I THINK( but I'm not sure) people complain because they don't look at doing these as education, but as entertainment after their season or while at the Transworld show or whatever. I don't agree that they are entertainment first but whatever. If you can't afford something, you can't afford it, bottom line. But that doesn't mean it should be cheaper just because you can't afford it. People will complain about prices of tours, quality of tours, how the tradeshows are, hotels, food costs, etc, etc, from now till the end of time. It's just human nature. And we will probably being discussing tour prices on here from now till the end of time.

[screamforadream]

Larry,

You ARE right, to an extent. You had a humble beginning yourself, and you ARE a success story, but you and I are more alike than you thought.

I have spent every penny to my name to build a scream park, literally, I have less than $50 to my name right now with the exception of my trades how account which I wont be touching anytime soon lol, but I've taken the largest risk of my LIFE. I haven't bought any broke in two second animations. I've been buying used but well taken care of smalls, restoring and improving old pieces, and making sure that everything I have LASTS.

I've brought on some VERY talented people to help make my scream park a reality, all for it to be potentially lost due to a circumstance I could have never foreseen.

I Have had tremendous success and even more tremendous failures, I may not be one of the best in the country yet, but give me 5 years and I'll be a household name. I plan for growth. I plan my marketing. Hell I spent more on marketing and my website (still under construction) than I did on the haunt. I planned a VERY large marketing blitz to begin one week before we open, and everyone in the tri state area would know about us.

And as for your netherworld secret sauce reference, you're right! But you don't need to pay for knowledge in this industry. The search bar on these forums provides more answers than any other resource, and tours don't cost money to give, I would never make another haunter pay for information I learned for free or taught myself. That's just greedy, not narrow-minded. So anyone out there who is on this forum and wants a FREE behind the scenes tour, call me anytime (203)988-2440 or text I would gladly help any haunter out however I can!


I know a lot, but I also know that I don't know a lot of things. This is the last ill talk about me, I'm not that important or narcissistic lol

Larry,

You have been and still are a role model to me, I can only hope of being on the same level as you one day in the future years/decades. I don't think anything you said is wrong, but I believe I can achieve and do just as much in the future without spending so much or asking for so much. It's merely a different approach. Not meant to be disrespectful or insulting in the least bit buddy.

[john haines]

UNCLE LARRY'S HUMBLE BEGINNINGS and more.............

I became a FAN of Halloween Productions back in 1994, and bought all of their video tapes and DVD'S. Sure, the prices of things go up, that's expected, and for the quality Larry and Jim Kelly provide in their haunts and shows, they (to me) are worth every penny of admission price. My first video tape from Halloween Productions was called "How To Create Your Own Haunted House-Part 1". I still have it, and it still works. I have the original LONG VERSION !!! It ran about 2 hours. It (though dated) is still a hoot to watch !!!

Larry once said that he began his haunted house career in his apartment building when he was a child in the basement (good spooky location !!!) and charged 20 cents or something for admission. He's such a nice guy, he probably would have let you go thru twice !!!

Anyway, it just goes to show that if you are DETERMINED, and fight tooth and nail, and work hard everyday at what you LOVE to do, you will succeed. Larry is proof of that. Back in 1994, I was looking for "SOMETHING" to do in the haunted house business. Not really get involved in a haunt as like an owner, but just to commnunicate with other haunters and enthusiasts and exchange ideas. Because of Larry, that all happened. First it was by his magazines, then the internet exploded. This forum and website is just great !!!! So many ideas and opinions to be exchanged here. A free wealth of knowledge as we know it. Bobby, you have that same dream. Stick with it. Open and build your haunted attraction. Remember, we all make mistakes. You are a determined young man and a great DJ. All of your DJ knowledge can tie into your haunt project somewhat.(the use of sound and lights) I wish you only the best and THANK YOU LARRY and JIM for all you've done for Halloween, haunted houses, and the haunt business in general. I have yet to visit Larry's haunts. I hope to do so this year. I have been amazed for years at the incredible detail, over the top scares, and a DISNEY -type quality that cant be surpassed. Hope to see you this Fall in ST. LOUIS for a visit. Thank you Larry and Jim for everything you have done for the haunt business. I know you have more in store for us. THANK YOU !!!!

[Marr Branch]

It sounds to me like you guys need to get laid. I think you are all members of the "I can't get no pussy club". Sorry if that offends , but I dont give a shit.

[Deathwing]

It sounds to me like you guys need to get laid. I think you are all members of the "I can't get no pussy club". Sorry if that offends , but I dont give a shit.

HAHAHAHA That is too funny, fantastic! Lol

Jake

[Gahaunter]

When you sit and wonder why is Netherworld doing 80,000 people and you are doing 8,000 people why is that? Are they better than you? Can they buy something from a vendor you can't buy? Do they have access to some secret sauce that no one else can obtain?

The answer is NO NO and NO AGAIN!
Larry

I think the answer to the above question is wrong. Yes. Yes, they do have access to a "secret sauce". It's called money! Now hear me out. Netherworld has worked hard to get where they are. I remember back before they moved to their permanent digs in Norcross. I certainly believe that Ben deserves it but they didn't start out with attendance numbers like that. Thats almost 20 years in the biz. You have to work into it. You can't deny with 80,000 in attendance and millions of dollars invested that they have purchasing power that the smaller haunts don't. They can buy plenty of things others can't. You mention every year how much you spend on renovations to the Darkness for the haunt tours and it is money well spent. The show looks great. You are heavy hitter too with much influence and cash. I mean neither one of you (Darkness or Netherworld) have the purchasing power of say Universal Studios, but being a larger haunt does afford you more things. Maybe it's not what you meant? Surrounding yourself with uber talented people usually comes with a high cost (if you want the best).

For the record, I totally respect you and admire your haunt and your passion. Understand, I don't have an open haunt so I've got no dog in this fight. I do have a question though. Your above statement is confusing to me. It seems like your using circular logic. I'm not trying to start an argument just looking for clarity.

In your above statement you derided most of us little guys and smaller haunts by saying we shouldn't be spending money on a 5K animation. However, when talking about haunts you constantly talk about detail, detail, detail. Detailed sets, detailed photos, better costumes. You say how we have to think bigger and put on more spectacular shows to draw more audience. But how can someone do that if your putting it back into the business as you just said? So I guess what i'm asking is where should people spend their 5K? Website, marketing, show? It seems like there are conflicting answers. Not everyone can have a mega-haunt. So for those of us smaller owners/operators what's your advice?

I do agree with you. Passion alone does not equal success. I've met some really successful haunt owners who were excellent business people that lacked passion. I've also met some great haunters with an indomitable spirit who make lousy business owners. Personally, I've had a string of bad luck when it comes to business, as of late. Lots of folks want to be in the game but not everyone knows how to play. It takes all kinds.

[drfrightner]

Couple of things here...

What I meant on Netherworld is just like you said they started off small and poured everything they had into it... I know Ben and Billy well. Those guys kept their real jobs until what 5 or so years ago. Those guys like many others had real jobs and kept them for most of the haunts life, and more recently they dumped those jobs and haunted year around. You only get money to expand and get bigger from being totally committed to doing things the right way.

But if I asked Ben to step in here for a second he would say exactly what I'm going to say right now... for the first several years he toured haunts, he went to seminars, he bought all the videos, did all the shows, and spent money like wildfire seeing, doing, and trying to learn himself. In fact little known fact here... before Ben ever had a haunted house he was working for Silo-X and the first year I opened Darkness he came by and went through. I didn't know him then... Ben to this day can tell me every single scene in the original darkness. So what does that tell you right there???

My point is very clear... the people who sit around and cry about how things aren't fair, or things cost to much, and take jabs at people who are trying to do something positive are the same people who are stuck in reverse, or simply don't have haunts and are just upset because hey the World isn't fair! I'd say you are probably voting for Obama... I'll vote for Milt btw.

My point to be even more clear is there is nothing out there that cost to much in fact this is an industry where things are not what they should be... I buy a script writing dvd from Final Draft cost $250.00, someone in this industry makes a great two hour how to dvd sells it for $50.00 and they are grave robbers! This industry needs to wake up and realize as attraction owners we are charging a LOT OF MONEY for our events probably WAY MORE than they are worth, and those same people complain about someone who opens their haunt for a special event and charges double ... whatever and go fly a kite.

The people who do attend these events are the people who are willing to do whatever it takes to get better because they understand.

I want to support all haunt owners and I do EVERY SINGLE DAY... and some of these idiots in this industry just don't realize. Take today for example... I'm talking to some major newspaper and they are talking about amusement parks. What did I do?? I talk about how they have so many people jammed through there is why an experience at a locally owned haunt is better scarier experience. I'm ALWAYS promoting the SMALL BUSINESS OWNER because even though you might think I'm a big time haunt owner or whatever... I'm NOTHING MORE THAN A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER nothing more or less. So we are all in the same boat. This is why I write the articles like the one on the front page of Hauntworld right now to help my fellow haunters think a head of the curve.

I will do everything I can to support this industry... so my posts are meant to push people in the right direction however some people can't hear they only like to hurl insults!

I've grown up enough to not care about that stuff anymore!

Oh well...

Larry

[Gahaunter]

Larry,

Believe it or not. Silo-X is where I first met Ben so many years ago. LOL

Thanks for clarifying. I totally get what you're saying now.

[Speculo]

The Secret Sauce!

First I must admit I have not read this entire thread... no time! I did see us mentioned so let me say a few things...

The secret sauce is not money... but it might be the bun and or the meat!

The secret sauce is satisfying the customer. I have seen many folks most in fact that brought tons of money to this game and lost it all time and again. ANY effective venture is the result of having your customers want to come back and bring other people. The truth is most of us want to do what WE want to do and that may not be what the customer wants. The same thing goes for Haunt Tours or Conventions or anything. If enough people are happy with the result and you haven't overspent, you get to keep going!


It is not the price it is the price to value ratio. And no matter what you do if people consistantly leave unsatisfied then you will fail. Now you cannot please everyone, even the best movies have critics, but you need to create an experience folks want to repeat.


Think about this... It is more about TIME! Yes your haunt or whatever costs money but it also costs time. We are all busy and if you take someones time with your event and the event is unsatisfying for whatever reason they will not come back.

Now HOW do you make YOUR customers happy with YOUR haunted house?

Solve that riddle without screwing up your business and you will win I think!

[Greg Chrise]

Okay, we all have to think much bigger, here is a link to stadium capacities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ms_by_capacity

Go look at that mass of people during some capacity event and figure out how they would all get to your one night haunted car port and actually pay money too. And be really satisfied. It's that simple.

One scary car port, 500 porta potties, no problem. Make sure the neighbors are invited for free.

[Marr Branch]

Sorry about previous post. No more forums while drinking.

[spookjj]

Competition is good most of the time, it's obviously tempting because of the location and in order to grow the industry it's better soley for this reason. I hope it does well, really surprised Transworld would be involved since it's so close to STL convention. I'm wondering if they're testing the waters here, and maybe thinking of relocating eventually to Orlando down the line sometime, wouldn't surprise me one bit. I'm exicited, let's give it a chance and take advantage.