How much to Pay

[actiondeath]

Well put, and I agree 100%. I have considered all of these things, which is why I have not and will not trash his haunt and why I have tried to explain my reasons for not returning (By the way, I highly doubt that you're interested, but PM me if you are, it makes a hell of a conversation). I have no delusions of a legal battle over my humble paycheck and, to make matters worse, this is much to the dismay of my Wife, who is waaaaayyyy more pissed about the whole situation than I am. She wants to pay him a visit herself and Vampirella has nothing on her. How embarassing. Besides, there were no contracts, no invoices, nothing on paper, like I said, only an understanding that I would be duely compensated as I had been for prior work.

I absolutely despise any business that holds a grudge because someone resigned their position without notice. Especially when the position is seasonal, temporary, or subject to undefined terms. Sometimes enough is enough. Life is too short to hate what you do, where you are, or who you associate yourself with. As if that is any reason to decline earned wages. Petty.

I have moved on and I do intend to use the experience to my advantage. The point is that I have worked for the guy for 3 years. I helped him out when no one else would. I brought my friends to help him when no one else would. I defended him through thick and thin and I offered a professional service for a fraction of what someone else would've charged. I just wanted to know if any of you would take advantage of one of your workers this way and maybe make a few of you aware that, even though it may be the nature of the industry to be thrifty and pinch those pennies, you may want to think about the time and effort that your 'go getter' is investing in your show and the faith that they may be putting in you and your show before you judge them. I just can't stand people who turn their back on friends like that. I feel sorry for him and anyone who would do a person the way I was done.

[Jim Warfield]

I firmly believe in paying people who work for me. This is just right and fair. Unfortunately (not in your case as it sounds) I have also had some helpers who used their time here to figure out just how little work they could give me and still get paid!
Every job requires the expenditure of personal energy and time but the haunting business requires so much energy that only comes from a true desire to be there, scaring people and some will not ever see it this way or find that "fun", sad for them, I feel.
I have met people who spent vast amounts of their time and skills working, even managing someone else's haunt , only to get totally stiffed=no pay at all!?

My first year at Transworld I was sitting next to "Grandpa & Grandma who took in $140,000 each October with their haunt and were bragging to others at Transworld that they paid their helpers with an ocassional free hot dog and a simple "Thank You"!?
Their helpers were actually "getting" a Really BIG hot dog in my opinion, Butt they might not have fully realised it!

[Greg Chrise]

Methods of collecting

Even in our regular business of putting textures on pool for people who somehow make $4,000 a day becomes tough to get paid. People build up a little heirarchy of "he's in a meeting" right now, don't answer their cell phones, purposely go out of town or have some excuse like they need to transfer funds or what ever.

The Vampirella Collection (although she is mean as hell) is actually relentlessly professional. Routinely calling and being nice, wasting their time poinitng out how hard we worked, how expensive the help and materials are, even disclosing the actual expenses to a point where it is obvious we engaged in this activity not to rip them off but to help them have a good product. Generally there are no complaints with the work or the performance and generally they agree to all of thee points and that they need to get us some money. Now When will that be happening?

The picture painted by this communication is that not just one person has been not paid but, an entire organization has been effected that is used to having recourse in order to get paid.

Even when I sell a job to strangers it is generally a referal from a number of companies we are subcontractors for. I have always looked at the Haunted House like it is just one of the 40 or so jobs we do every year. One of my little sales closes is usually prefed by the previous referal and they say you drive a hearse? Yes, I do because of the haunted house but, I find it works in this industry too as I can always drive in with the hearse and collect something. They usually fill in the blanks wit get in the back. I say yes, generally people will give me money just not to see the hearse in their neighborhood and have to explain all of this to everyone over and over.

The secret however to our making money and getting paid all but once over the past 15 years has been that we are relatively transparent in how much everything costs, they couldn't do it because there is a developed talent and trained skill involved and we have taken that to a little higher level with exactly how each step is done. As customers watch and check on our progress it is obvious we are doing some very physical things over a long course of time. I have come to see this as a performance art.

Somehow even if a competitor did such and such a step, the customer didn't see it done. I redo other people's work too and charge less than they do. So you did the job more reasonable, used better longer lasting materials that might have required you to go slower and allow things to cure out, you di all kinds of sanding and edging where the other guys didn't do that. The end result is a happy customer. We did what we said we would do, we were there when we said we would be and I hear from all the contractors we are the only ones that do that.

So when it comes time to be paid, I understand to some extent that they have to get the money from the customer, put it in the bank, make sure the check cleared and then pay us. However too many times I have pulled up to a business and there is a new truck or car or piece of equipment sitting there shining and they don't have our check. Do I need to go get the hearse? Do you want Vampirella to call?

I don't care if the money has to come from the budget of another job or if they have to sell one of their bobbles to pay me. They said they would pay me and here I am.

I understand the economy has all the expenses have risen, it has gotten tighter but the buying new toys hasn't seen to stop. Even if it delays me getting what we worked hard for. As an employer and operator, I have paid everyone and bought all the materials, paid for the location that all of this is kept and traveled all over the place in the expectation of getting paid.

Just recently, we stopped going to a location due to the weather, never asked for any money and we got a check in the mail for what has been completed. That's my kind of customer. Meanwhile right next to this same project, the guy is out of town so how are we going to get paid?

The other buzz I occationally put in their ear about getting paid is that because of what we do, I have the heavy equipment that takes these products off. So rather than filing a lien, sueing a non payer, the unpaid product is mine and I will remove it if it isn't paid for with this equipment and leave behind a finish that looks like the hiway department scabbler has been here.

So, part of the education is to be entirely transparent all the way through the process. Be sure your customer sees progress and how hard it was to do something all the way through and give them a heads up that it will be time to get their wallet out or promise where the money is coming from at some time in the future.

So far, although I occasionally drive the hearse to get a check, I haven't had to show up at their front door with the good shovel and the hearse at the curb. I haven't had to spend a couple hundred dollars scarifyinf their yard or writting swear word into their pool deck wit a machine. Just the potential that this is where it could head is very entertaining or it prompts people from ordering things that don't really have the money right now.

Being around haunted houses has made my real life a bit different, perhaps even more effective. I have had to sit here many times and wonder what someone had of equal value that I might want. Occasionally it isn't worth putting out any further effort. You just add one more sentence to your sales close. Again turning a loss into insurance to not lose again.

Then, another trick I have learned from the haunted house industry is to explain to anyone how to do it themselves, where to get everything, how much it costs, what you have to do to complete the task and so on. They will either try and realize it is tougher than it looks or understand what is involved and hire you for a preset amount. Another form of total transparency.

Communicating that we are just intrestested in providing a service for a living wage, we aren't buying a new limo at the end of each job.

I have come up with crazy things to say reguarding getting money. Someone will say the cliche " baby needs a new pair of shoes" I will respond with "my dog needs a sex change operation."

But, at any time it could be just like that X-files episode where the inbreed mutants fire up that old junk car, playing Johny Mathis on the radio and go into town to kill the sheriff.

I begin the potential scare right off the bat and go to the door of the personal home of every new contractor and knock on the door to meet their wife. So as to say I know where you live. So as to say, sorry for being rude but, our getting money for very hard work is serious business. Just like customers call up the better business burea before dealing with a contractor, I fully investigate a client and list potential ways I will be paid or who will be the hostages, do they have any furniture that I might need? Are they okay with the type of helpers I have at any given time?

Now a new seriousness has occured whereas contractors are bidding my time and paying at the very moment of job completion out in the field no questions asked. Well, I guess that moves that contractor to first call status. Those who need to wait untill the payment is handled by their accounting department can wait their turn.

[Jim Warfield]

Having a door-to-door bill collecting business must not be legal anymore in this state?
When I was a kid it was legal and the bill collector who seemed to strike fear into the hearts of dead-beats was a guy who only had one arm?
Maybe it was the fear that he was so tough handling the painfull loss of his arm that he could beat you to death and think nothing of removing one of your arms in lieu of payment?
I heard that in one of the South American countrys the bill collector always drove a blindly red new car and they sent two guys to your door wearing red jumpsuits, making it all the more embarrasing and hard to explain to the neighbors.

[Greg Chrise]

Door to Door Bill Collector?

As far as legality it is a grey area. I'm pretty sure what changed is the fact that everyone decided to buy guns to protect their property.

Apparently you can righteously shoot someone on your own property but, you can't go over and protect the neighbors house or chase down thieves.

For the civilized, there is just too much time involved in explaining what happened.

For entertainment purposes, some of the pool companies had pondered me collecting for them using the hearse technique or when I did do their pool deck come up with the words you are a big prick really big in the final finish that when hit with a certain kind of light illuminates. Of course the pool company would sell them and collect on the special light fixture as well.

[Jim Warfield]

I know when someone used to owe my Dad for a new furnace we could not legally incapacitate their furnace to try to force a payment from them. Another guy in town sold and installed a central AC for a big dead-beat..no pay...he waited until it was the absolutely hottest day of the entire summer then drove up next to the compressor, snipped all the lines off, loaded the unit into his truck and drove away with it!
Explain that to your wife and kids Mr. Deadbeat!

[Greg Chrise]

As a child...

I learned how to say "I didn't do it" over and over and over.

[Greg Chrise]

I'm Sure,

In Illinois, there may be laws about the furnace not being screwed with, as some case in 1950 found the entire family and the dog, dead in the middle of winter with their tongues stuck to the wall.

[Jim Warfield]

If they would have limited their tonguing to something alive (like each other) they would still be alive today, in jail, but still alive!
Watch out for those cold steel jail bars!

[Evilution Unlimited]

How do you guys handle taxes on actor wages? Do you pay them as independent contractors (so they pay medicare and social security), do you pay them under the table, or do you pay them like a regular job with all the social security and medicare costs being matched by you?

[Kevin Dells]

you mean us actors are supposed to make money? whooooooa wait a minute...

LOL Man your not just kidding on this one Rob!!

O.K. im up for hire, whats it worth to you and no iv'e never done time im always like this!

I also Build sets, do spfx make up, and yes even carpool and wipe noses for the kiddies!

Nose wiping seminars i charge more for!! You supply the kleenex.

[The Shack]

Actors / house owners

I have been on both sides of the fence on this subject. I am an actor, janitor, builder, security, director, a shoulder to cry on, creator, owner and a sucker. I have acted in haunts ever sense I was a kid. I acted for free sometimes and I scored some good haunt jobs and got paid good money for my services. I recently just did a three year tour for free. I have bought costumes, props, brought in help, etc and did not get paid a dime. I put in many many hours all year long and worked on the house and made role call every night. My friends were not paid and were talked down on by this owner and his wife. This was a big dissapointment to me, my friends and family. I didn't even get any credit with local media, website comments or a thanks from this haunt I partnered with. Bullshit man. Some people are just sorry and have to pay thier debt ecspecially new upcoming haunts. I have owned and ran my own haunt also. I did not make a dime, but I did pay my actors all that I agreed to pay (hourly). Actors do need to be in the scene every and all night. Dressing up in a costume and yelling all night is a hard job. It will really wear you down over time. You should be compensated for your hard work and time spent. Pay actors based on years spent, reliability responsibility, and quality of fright. Give them a bonus for being there every night or just for doing a good job. If they can't pay they should allways show appreciation towards you or reconize you somehow or any chance they get. It is hard to get good actors and keep them around. Do not ruin it for 1st time actors. Pay all actors if possible and even reconize them on your website, news enterviews, paper, and/or anyway possible. People will go miles for a great leader.

[BruiseMuse]

I do agree that a paid actor is typically a happier actor. But if you are running a volunteer haunt, its always appreciated when you give the actors free food and a gas reimbursement (especially with the nightmares at the pumps right now!).

I think at least minimum wage for a new actor is a good starting point, especially if they are acting and running around for at least 4 hours straight at night. I think there should be a sliding scale based on talent, experience, and overall contribution to the show (example: if an actor does makeup on otehr actors every night as well as act, they should receive more than just an actor).

[FoundationForFear]

Lesson Learned

Actiondeath,

I had this happen to me two years back. I had an actor who had been with the event since day one (so 4 years). He was one of my best-always bringing new ideas to the table, willing to move to whatever scene needed aid each night, etc. Then, we got a new actress in 2006. Suddenly my actor was more enamoured with her than the event. I often found them taking their 15 minute breaks together (and the break last more like 45 minutes), sneaking off into the woods, etc. Then one night....they just didn't show up. I have always had actor contracts. Each one signs stating they will be there for all the nights (or provided 24 hours notice they aren't coming), they will never come drunk or high, they release us of liability for injury, and that if they no show one night- they forfiet all the pay they had earned up to that point. So, when they came back the next night, once I made sure there had been no emergency that kept them away, I explained to both of them that they would night be recieving any pay for the nights they had worked prior. This was a big blow for them because we were on night 9 of 12 when they missed. They agreed and apologized for the absence. They worked the remainder of the event and were paid for the 4 nights after their no show. Actress left at the end of the year. Actor is back 100% and better than ever.

Won't really help you for your current situation with the actor now, but I would consider contracts for future years. Covers everyone involved.

[gadget-evilusions]

I have only worked at one commercial attraction, but it's been for a number of years. We have always paid our actors a flat rate per night they showed up, and if they showed up all the nights (16), they got a bonus, and if they were a roamer, which only our top 8-10 were, they got a bigger bonus. I think our top paid actor might have made $400 for the season. We have an average of 60 actors a night, and if we paid everyone minimum wage, there is no way we could even open our doors. We already don't make money. I know acting is hard work, but I thought we act in haunts for the love of it, not to make a ton of money. Honestly, my job as technical director: all the animatonics, all electrical systems, all pneumatic systems all lighting, all sound, etc, I only make about $3 an hour average per season.