HHA vs IAHA

[bodybagging]

Speaking of charging phone, Call me TAT!

[drfrightner]

Mike,

What are you talking about... I never wanted a FREE sponsorship or anything. You guys NEVER contacted me... you had told me because you thought I wanted to be an exclusive magazine sponsor. When I was helping you from day one get the thing off the ground, you asked me if I would sponsor this and help you promote it. I told you ya, but I would want to be the exclusive magazine sponsor.

Later on after I was never involved with the event, you said after the event you guys didn't contact me because you thought I wanted to be exclusive. I could care less at this point, that is water under the bridge.

Furthermore I posted on these very message boards I would donate DVD's and magazine and no one called me on that either. I was told by someone involved with your production that Tim who was in charge of your sponsorships wouldn't contact me because of our legal issues.

Again at this point I don't care at all... water under the bridge. I'm just happy that we are cool now and I have no beef with you. However when you say you don't like the crap that comes along with the industry, I hope you're refering to people who rip off your work, pose as your haunt nationally, cause you to spend thousands on legal fees to stop them.

Mike if someone did that to you guys, you'd be going CRAZY, you'd go straight to your lawfirm no two ways about it...then it wouldn't be crap to you, it would be serious. It was serious to me, and it should be serious to any haunter.

Either way... I think this whole thread of IAHA vs. HHA is silly...

To me its not a competition, I already know what we're doing, and its not to hurt IAHA or you or anyone else... its to HELP our industry grow with the media.

There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

Whatever IAHA does good for them... but your leader is a total flake!

Larry

[SomeThingInTheIce]

Discounts drive sales, promotion drives sales, a buyer is more likely to place a order with a vendor that is part of something that the buyer belongs too and visa versa, you see this in corporate America all the time. Vendor and owner both working to make the industry stronger thus driving sales. For the vendor this would be what ever product they happen to sell and for the owner tickets. I do not own a haunt but have worked with vendors like Coke, Pepsi, and others. If you talk to these guys they want you to come join them to do this or that and if you want them on board for something they are there because they know in the end it all drives sales.

And what is the advantage for a vendor to join hha, other than offer 5% discounts to other members? What does a vendor get out of this arrangement, for their membership? For the record this is a serious question, not one of my typical smartbutt replies. Case in Point, why would I pay IAHA however much they ask for a business membership, just to offer 10% discounts to IAHA members, I know the sales speel of IAHA members are encouraged to only purchase from IAHA vendors, but point blank, If I have something that a IAHA member wants they are going to buy it regardless.... Its HUMAN NATURE to get what you want. I just seem to be missing the benefits for Vendors to pay for a membership. Its like giving money to give away more money. someone educate me please.

[damon carson]

Wow Larry I had no Idea you went through all that stuff. I guess everyone has problems. I feel you did the right thing and stuck to your guns. You dont let people run you over or take what your hard work and money paid for. Its just B.S. all the crap people say or do. But you know you have the right attitude not to let it bother you. I really admire you! You are a good person I really believe that! Ive always thought that! And thats why I support your site, your business, your haunts, videos, magazine ect. If anyone is trying to help other haunters it is you for sure! I want to thankyou for all you do for all us haunters!
Damon

[SomeThingInTheIce]

As for the guy that took larrys art and name, not cool! there is no way you could have believed that this was okay! He// I'll just open a haunt here in Florida and I'll call it... let see Oh I know how about Halloween Horror Nights.... you think Universal will be nice about it like larry and ask me to stop or do you think I would have to remove a boat load of lawyers out of my a$$ (those dollar signs would be coming out with them). I am sure that a lot of small haunts have used names that may have been used by other small haunts over time. I mean there are only so many scary names for a cemetery or house or what ever but dude The Darkness come on, we all know the big name haunts out there, we all know the haunts that are on top year after year, we all want to get there but you don't do it by trying to pass yourself off as them. Can a haunted attraction be the victim of idenitiy theft? Sure looks like it to me. Just my 2 cents, now don't come after me with your chainsaws.lol.

[Speculo]

Here is my take on this topic, HHA or IAHA


For years I tried to get some of IAHAs critics to join the group. I have supported it since day one, both I and Billy Messina my business partner have been on the board, we have had fundraisers, donated the tradeshow booth etc. We always saw what could be and what should be possible with a group like this.

The day that Larry and Leonard were on the board I said this is what I have been waiting for! Unity! That lasted like 12 seconds.

There are many who never trusted Larry, who thought he was out to sabotage the group. They couldn’t have been more wrong. He really did care! He gave time, money, ideas and put his back into making this work. All that stuff he said was pretty much dead on. Do you remember the website before he reworked it? (of course that website is now gone, but it showed that so much more MUST be done) What about the logo? Can anyone remember the massive safety push…the magazine devoted to safety? Then there is the PR campaign, that was already designed but that he then offered to IAHA, perhaps the greatest thing besides just surviving this long that the association has ever done.

ALSO importantly he offered his database to the group. This is a data base he had been building for YEARS, every video every magazine, every haunt that ever registered on his sites. Repeatedly this was offered to the group, to do a massive outreach mailing, but it was never followed through. Tragic for IAHA!

Why would he work this hard if the plan all along was to hurt IAHA?

The day he finally walked away over disputes about the website, I said to the board that it was a disaster that they had never used the data base that had long been offered. I still cannot see the wisdom in taking a supporter with the assets to move mountains and making them back into your sharpest critic. It kind of blows my mind.

There were many reasons he walked away, frankly Larry runs his own business and I think he found it frustrating to be saddled by the board, and I think they were frustrated by him. Ultimately it came down to trust really, they just didn’t trust him and they never would, and he knew it. I wasn’t on the board during those final weeks but the level of alienation was very clear.

So here we are with the question, IAHA or HHA…..

Well let’s do the easy one first. Love him or not, you know Larry. Join HHA and you will get stuff you totally would have bought anyway, and you help him to speak out for the industry to the media. Even his critics must admit he does a great job with this, always putting a POSITIVE spin, always being the cheerleader, an approach that helps us ALL.

So IAHA… Well my thinking on this group I have supported through thick and thin over long years has changed. First off let me say that I truly believe that most of the folks in this group really want what’s best for the industry. Many of the members of this current board have been the top board members ever, with an unprecedented level of success at organizing, working hard and getting it done; let me single out Dan, Brett and the amazing Jim Smith among those who have been absolute workhorses.

But here is the thing….This group keeps doing strange things. How can anyone who knows this industries history and the way we guard our business secrets produce a CENSUS like the one they did?

This CHAOS program…Well safety training is great! But Certification? Do you think that an organized CERTIFIED program will be waved in the face of inspectors in a moment of panic this next season by a haunter who will do anything to open? You bet! Do you think the inspector might say…HEY let me see that! THESE are some great ideas! Just so you know… the way this is angled there are real chances for codes to get harder for some if this program gets noticed. There IS an argument to be made that maybe codes SHOULD be tougher, but when it becomes clear that IAHA caused that will any of YOU be cheering?

Now this awards thing. In an Association like IAHA we are all equals. Now you have a voting situation that will have IAHA elevate certain members as the best. How will haunters in a market feel when their association makes one of them #1 and puts the other at the bottom? The potential for anger and actual negative results on your business rivals the bloodiest haunt rating systems in the most crowded markets.

Are there other Haunt rating systems out there? All over the place, Larry being the biggest perhaps. But they are all essentially “Movie Critics” individuals who tell it like they see it, love it or hate it. But it’s just not the place of an Association where everyone is an equal, where the common good is the rule in MHO

So where am I going with this?

For years, really since its inception IAHA was always trying to please its critics, trying to do something, ANYTHING to provide a benefit, to justify its very existence. Now you have a group finally capable of doing something, but some of the things they are doing...Yikes!

Let’s make this simple. You know Larry, you know Leonard, but do you KNOW the President of IAHA one year from now? What’s the next direction this organization will go, North South East or West? I don’t know, and aside from a logo and Randy Young this entire association flips every 2 years.

Add to it the fact that it is made up of EVERYONE (Haunt owners, want to be Haunt Owners, Vendors, Actors, Enthusiasts, Home Haunters) creating a schizophrenic “please all” mentality, the fact it has alienated both Larry and Leonard, the biggest media outlets in the industry, and the fact that often the leaders of the group are quite literally “The last one standing in the room” doesn’t do a lot to inspire confidence.

I see a group finally starting to stand on its own two feet after what …maybe 10 years, with the power to get things done at last and wonder WHAT will they do next?. Or what whoever is in charge will say to the media next year.

So to IAHA, HHA to HAUNTWORLD, to HAUNTED ATTRACTION and to any other leaders that should emerge I say…

DO NO HARM!

1) Promote the industry in a positive light! Don’t get too complicated…its simple.. Haunted Houses Rock!

2) Promote Safety EPECIALLY to those on the OUTSIDE of our industry who don’t know any better! And if you have one thing to say? Please use common sense and follow your LOCAL codes!

3) Compete like crazy in your local markets but be NICE! Dirty tricks and evil behavior make us all look bad!

4) Share information with the Haunt community - BUT DON’T FEEL PRESSURED GIVE AWAY THE KITCHEN SINK! Information takes years to learn and lots of mistakes to acquire. Why should you be expected to give away for FREE what you have spent a lifetime learning?

5) Support our Vendors! If they bring a fair priced product to market that you like, BUY IT! And for goodness sake, don’t go out and SELL a knock off! This crushes innovation and rewards imitation.

6) Respect Intellectual property! Don’t rip off other haunters or even the mass media! Once again lets reward innovation and not rip offs.

7) If you are an Association support your members DON’T compete with them!


So this is what I think right now about IAHA, and HHA, in my opinion only,
and with a few general suggestions thrown in so I’m not to be accused of offering no ideas.


But I never really answered the question!

HHA yes - you will get what you paid for. I'm in!

IAHA - Lots of good folks on the board, lots of years of support makes you want to support he group no matter what it does, lots of good ideas, lots of BAD ONES. Will you get what you paid for? Depends what you want I guess. Your Call.

Thanks

Ben Armstrong
NETHERWORLD

[MDKing]

Thanks Ben, an exellent post I'm sure we all can agree with!

Good job!

Allan

[MindWerxKMG]

I second that!

[drfrightner]

Back to the positive...

HHA will eventually become a full fledged association when we've got 500 members strong... the first building block of any association is its members, and the quality of those members. I feel like by this time next year we could have 500 plus members.

Now one of the main benefits will be the VENDOR discount program...

We just added yet another vendor Gore Galore ... will offer 10% discount to all HHA members.

Poison Props offered 5% to all HHA members

Scarefactory offered plus 5% over any discount he already offers.

Scareparts offered 5% on all orders anytime of the year.

More discounts are coming pre-Transworld from Ghost Ride, Distoritions, and Unit 70 and many more.

We're NOT going to do this half ass... we're going to do this right. WE ARE A FREAKIN 500 MILLION DOLLAR industry we deserve an association that helps our industry accomplish things we couldn't have otherwise. We will make this happen together!

My only role is to use my resources to put the membership together, once that happens, we can have a meeting of the minds and go from there. Deal? Lets go!

Sign up today www.hauntedhouseassociation.org

Larry

[Barry]

Larry,
Just curious as to what changed your mind about vendor discount programs? It wasn't too long ago that you wrote this:

All vendors will give you a discount this time of year, all you have to do is ask.
There is no VENDOR that won't give you some sort of discount when buying in the winter, buying at the show, buying lots of stuff, blah, blah. If you fail to ask you get nothing, it's all part of the negotiations. That is why most of these discount programs don't really float because most vendors will give you 3 or 4 times better deal if you just ask!

Remember when dealing with these people, typically you're dealing with the owner of the company, so its not like walking into Walmart and trying to get something cheaper. You're talking to the owner, just ask!!!

Larry

Personally I am glad to that you now see the benefits of getting vendors involved.

[bodybagging]

And yet with ALL THAT I still dont see the benefit of a Vendor paying either Organization a Membership fee.
IAHA a proposed 300 members
HHA with most likely less but potential to grow members

Thats not alot of ADDED customers, which leaves very little incentive for me to buy membership for either.
Larry, Barry, your takes on this?

[bodybagging]

Come on guys, Enlighten me, BUT show me the error of my thinking in terms that a po' lil uneducated prop builder can understand./

[Speculo]

Most vendors I suspect join these things to gain access to potential clients, networking, access to selective email lists, etc. Also if you like the direction they are going to strenghten the entire industry, you might want to support them.

Basically "whats in it for me" or "whats in it for us"

Both are heavily focused on "whats in it for me" because unfortunately that what most people care about - thus the direct stuff you get, discounts, etc.

More important to me is the "whats in it for us" i.e. What big picture items will they focus on, who are the leaders, how much experience do they have, do they know what needs fixing and what to leave alone, etc.

Basically, freaking politics!

As far as whats in it for vendors I have no idea. Really I am surprised vendors haven't orgainized an association, I suspect its because they are even more competitive than haunted houses!

Thanks!

Ben
NETHERWORLD

[Barry]

Most vendors I suspect join these things to gain access to potential clients, networking, access to selective email lists, etc. Also if you like the direction they are going to strenghten the entire industry, you might want to support them.

I think Ben hit most of the high points here. I would also add some other benefits:

1. Access to other discounts. Maybe there is a member vendor that offers a discount on supplies or services that you use.

2. Discounts on tradeshow booths. Look for this in the future

3. Advertising and promotion within the organization.

[Nightmaretony]

As far as whats in it for vendors I have no idea. Really I am surprised vendors haven't orgainized an association, I suspect its because they are even more competitive than haunted houses!

Thanks!

Ben
NETHERWORLD


HVC.